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Author Topic: Leaving the project  (Read 2296 times)
Offline (Male) cheeseboy
Posted on: May 01, 2019, 08:04:22 AM

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Josh and Robert have now decided being nice takes priority over progressing the project. Despite the fact noone does more to help new users set up enigma than me, they've taken it upon themselves to ban me from the main discords channel. Robert's now approaching 1 year on finishing something that should've taken a few days. Josh has pushed an update to JDI just in time for the 10 year anniversary. And TKG has rewritten the same dialog system for 20th time. Meanwhile, I've made huge efforts to bootstrap the IDE, write a new file format, implement MSVC, Android and HTML5 support as well as starting the CI to ensure less breaks. However. none of that is appreciated. I can't get even a little help. Even when I practically beg for it. Instead I'm banned for being an "annoying asshole."

I've removed my account from discord and removed myself from the organization on Github. TKG, and all the other people incapable of taking a joke can now rejoice in your "safe space."

I'm sorry I ever cared.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2019, 10:17:27 AM by Josh @ Dreamland » Logged
Offline (Male) hpg678
Reply #1 Posted on: May 01, 2019, 08:47:47 AM

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well, if this indeed is true this time, i for one am sorry for you to be gone. Your contributions have indeed been of tremendous help, no one will/should deny that fact but unfortunately, your conduct and behavior did clash with others and so in a democracy, the majority rules.


i for one will miss you as I have missed TKG and others who have left. I like diversity, of course to a point and depending on circumstance.
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Offline (Male) Josh @ Dreamland
Reply #2 Posted on: May 01, 2019, 09:26:30 AM

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The question constantly begged was, what are we losing out on when you insist on harassing everyone who enters the channel? Some people put up with you, and some people don't. We've lost a lot of good people in the drama you created.

Your contributions are recognized and appreciated, and are the reason that I ignored request after request to ban you. But enough is enough. You're the reason I frequently take hiatuses, and most of the reason Robert is never on the main Discord. The last time you chased me off in one of your fits, forthevin and canthelp left. Now there's another. And at the point where one of the most talented people to show up and contribute to the project leaves two weeks later because he can't tolerate you, it's time to take action.

I'm not thrilled about getting rid of you, because unlike most, you were capable of being a leader. But there are ways of motivating people to do things to further the project—leading them—that don't involve harassing them. Until you can employ those tactics, I don't want you bothering people in the main channel anymore.
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Offline (Male) cheeseboy
Reply #3 Posted on: May 01, 2019, 09:49:01 AM

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You're misremembering several things. a) I've never even talked to forethevin he was hardly ever on IRC. b) I got along with canthelp and he was annoyed by you not me. c) I'm not not responsible for all your problems.

Far more people have left the project due to your commit rate than in response to anything I've done.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 09:57:10 AM by cheeseboy » Logged
Offline (Male) cheeseboy
Reply #4 Posted on: May 01, 2019, 11:02:58 AM

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Nope it's announcement. I've left the discord so now its safe for you to run in circles getting nothing important done without any criticism
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Offline (Male) time-killer-games
Reply #5 Posted on: May 01, 2019, 11:24:18 AM

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In all honesty, you are right about this. I have done nothing more than write and re-write the dialogs. I haven't done much else. You have done an incredidible amount to help this project and its community. If i knew i would be by an means a single reason for them to make this decision i wouldnt have left discord and I myself would have tried much harder to be nicer to you. I was never happy with the idea of you leaving. I have said stuff on the contrary in moments of rage but quite honestly i never would've looked forward to a topic like this and i did try to reconcile by distancing myself not just for my sake but also yours. I didn't know that would contribute to such a whiplash decision on Josh and Robert's part, and like i have told both you and them on the contrary to my angry behaviors i do care about you and do not hate you and have no reason to think anything negative of you. You're a classic prankster, and you are right i didnt and might still not know how to take a joke. I'm sorry that created such a huge problem for everyone here, but i highly doubt anyone got at it with you as badly as i did. I said more awful things to you probably more so than anyone on this earth ever has, I'm ashamed to admit.


I feel guilty about this, and I'm well aware i deserve to feel guilty. I'm sorry my conscience didn't kick in near enough to keep things afloat.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 11:43:48 AM by time-killer-games » Logged
Offline (Male) HitCoder
Reply #6 Posted on: May 01, 2019, 01:18:38 PM

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so uh.. like..

"I'm not not responsible for all your problems."

Fundies, we're not responsible for your problems either.
and it's not a case of being nice or being a safe space. There's a difference between being critical to a reasonable point and helping progress, and being toxic and making people feel annoyed and avoid the server.

For a while I was avoiding the discord because you'd constantly @ me, and i know several others were in the same situation.

Also, bigging yourself up and saying about how you got so much done, and that everyone is "taking so long" is a bit of a dick move. I have reason to believe other peoples' work is to a higher standard than yours (though it's not much in terms of evidence so I won't say i'm fully right because in all fairness it is true that you've done a lot for the project)

Alas, just because you get a lot of work done, doesn't mean it's not beneficial to sort of corner you off in the server -- also you're not banned, you were just restricted to your own channel so people could actually DISCUSS engima without you getting on their case.

I get that you're most of the time trying to poke fun, but there's a difference between poking fun and laughing at people getting annoyed, and poking fun and having everyone laugh with you.

tl;dr: grow up fundies lol

(oh also "I'm sorry I ever cared." is very passive aggressive, guilt-trippy, and uncalled for. don't social engineer like this just for the sake of it)
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 01:25:51 PM by HitCoder » Logged
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Offline (Male) time-killer-games
Reply #7 Posted on: May 01, 2019, 01:36:15 PM

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Nobody has done anything to fundies

I have, and to the point not only was i the world's biggest jerk/idiot to say the things i did i even created quite a show for everyone. As for everyone else, it's hard to say, I wasn't there recently. Some things i did were so awful im too embarrassed to repeat it. but we all know here what I did anyway.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 01:38:42 PM by time-killer-games » Logged
Offline (Male) time-killer-games
Reply #8 Posted on: May 01, 2019, 01:44:40 PM

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considering I'm one of only 3 people he brought up and complained about in the OP says something. But you're right, whether he brought me up for that reason is another matter. I'll just leave this topic alone now.
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Offline (Male) cheeseboy
Reply #9 Posted on: May 01, 2019, 04:06:54 PM

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This is my second most active year on GitHub with quality control way up since my most active year (2014/1500 commits). I have reached excessive levels of efficiency here and I don't have to take this garbage.

Yes, you've shuffled the same code around a lot congrats.

For a while I was avoiding the discord because you'd constantly @ me, and i know several others were in the same situation.

I only pinged people a) who I wanted to talk to. b) I've been waiting literal years on for something

Also, bigging yourself up and saying about how you got so much done, and that everyone is "taking so long" is a bit of a dick move. I have reason to believe other peoples' work is to a higher standard than yours (though it's not much in terms of evidence so I won't say i'm fully right because in all fairness it is true that you've done a lot for the project)

99% of Robert's work is redoing code he already wrote poorly and 100% of it can be can said for Josh. It's nice when they clean things up but there is no reason for it to take literal years. Anything that's been added to ENIGMA in past few years, It's likely I am either directly responsible or played a big part in it. It's not just my ego speaking that's a fact.


Alas, just because you get a lot of work done, doesn't mean it's not beneficial to sort of corner you off in the server -- also you're not banned, you were just restricted to your own channel so people could actually DISCUSS engima without you getting on their case.

That's like saying people in jail aren't banned from society because they can still call their mom. I helped a user with setup problems in #general just a few days ago and I've helped people with setup and gml/edl questions more times than I can count. If anyone asks a question I'm the first to help there but in the downtime I enjoy talking about other things. I will shit on useless changes like redesigning the event selector or the same bullshit being refactored for the 10th time. I would love to praise Josh or Robert for contributing something new in a timely matter but that'd be akin to finding big foot or a unicorn.

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Offline (Male) cheeseboy
Reply #10 Posted on: May 01, 2019, 06:54:38 PM

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99% of Robert's work is redoing code he already wrote poorly and 100% of it can be can said for Josh
That is 90% of what software engineers DO or Josh wouldn't tell me about other people's code he's always refactoring at work. Nothing works right when anybody first starts it, it takes time, that's what incremental software engineering is. Your forum title, "fucking moron", is RIGHTLY owed to you.

Nothing you write works properly first time but that's just the case for you. It's not that hard to make a plan and do it right the first time, only a "fucking moron" would spend 7 years rewriting the same thing 20x.
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Offline (Unknown gender) EHeroEdgeman
Reply #11 Posted on: May 01, 2019, 09:04:10 PM
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Free fundies Enigma without Fundies is like a child without it's mother A child but a child without its mother
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Offline (Unknown gender) Darkstar2
Reply #12 Posted on: May 01, 2019, 09:09:00 PM
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Josh and Robert have now decided being nice takes priority over progressing the project. Despite the fact noone does more to help new users set up enigma than me, they've taken it upon themselves to ban me from the main discords channel. Robert's now approaching 1 year on finishing something that should've taken a few days. Josh has pushed an update to JDI just in time for the 10 year anniversary. And TKG has rewritten the same dialog system for 20th time. Meanwhile, I've made huge efforts to bootstrap the IDE, write a new file format, implement MSVC, Android and HTML5 support as well as starting the CI to ensure less breaks. However. none of that is appreciated. I can't get even a little help. Even when I practically beg for it. Instead I'm banned for being an "annoying asshole."

I've removed my account from discord and removed myself from the organization on Github. TKG, and all the other people incapable of taking a joke can now rejoice in your "safe space."

I'm sorry I ever cared.

I can relate and I know the feeling of dealing with people who misinterpret everything and anything and cannot take a joke or comments that are classified as tongue in cheek - it's unfortunate that companies do not look at your overall worth - I've been terminated from a technology company after 5 years in service, despite having been extremely competent in my area and appreciated by the company, it only takes 1 misinterpreted comment to destroy your entire successful career no questions asked.  It's a shame to see this project ruined and destroyed over the "not getting along" between developers, this has always been a problem as far as I can remember and is probably one of the main reasons why the project has progressed slowly.   What's the use of dedicating years of effort to something to in the end get destroyed right ? I can relate,  I don't know what drama happened on Discord or what I missed or what pushed them to ban you but whether it is a open project or a company, people should work hard at keeping their talent, whilst containing any annoyance or disagreement (warning, discussion.....) some people / companies rather take the lazy, easy approach and get rid of people even though they were active - I thought this community was tolerant, you must have done something really bad ? what happened ?   Some people take shit seriously, it depends from WHO it comes from, you've said some shit to me too, I didn't make a fuss about it, because I knew the context - some people are mean by nature and mean most of what they say, I guess ENIGMA developers have never quite gotten along along those years, the sexual tension amongst you lot is the highest I have seen in any given projects - I guess it took its toll on the project - it's hard enough to find skilled coders to help with the project - some want to help but do not have the skills to do so, so is it wise to just get rid of the few people left, I dunno about that.

So lesson well learned right ?  Kiss as much arse as you can - never give you true point of view - and never do more than is asked of you, because in the end someone / some people will find any little thing ot destroy all your work over a few words.

Maybe I am saying all of the above because I am a big supporter of free speech and I strongly object to censorship - unless you did something unlawful, illegal, or that can get people in trouble, I don't see any benefit of censorship on a project that is basically having on a very thin rope, I will never support censorship.  There is a difference between being a troll and annoying and doing nothing and being annoying in the eyes of some people and contributing to the project.

Unless I missed some major development, I do not see why they banned you unless you hurt someone's feeling and made their butt hurt.

//edit: It appears after doing some reading that they banned you for conduct overseeing everything else (contributions, etc) - I guess in the end it all comes down to people's threshold of tolerance, while the "regulars" will be more lenient and tolerate all the jokes and trolling, some people (less regulars) might be turned away or such conduct might be frowned upon, it's unfortunate I guess but no matter how good you are or how much you contributed to something, in the end any individual or company will overlook that and take action if they deem things have gotten past a threshold.

Take my advice, it will be the best advice I can give someone - in many cases it is better to be a silent contributor.  My biggest fucking mistake in the company I worked for was being highly involved in discussion, sometimes hot topics related to tech,I've never been insulting or personal it was all a matter of ego and incompetence in trying to cover up  some shit, it was not about bad conduct but opinion, so yeah a different case - I guess they determined that your conduct pushed people away, from what I read they did not ban you from the project or even discord, just from the main channel.

 whilst a lot of my colleagues who were much less skilled than me, kept silent, they still have their fucking job, whilst on the other hand whilst I had the expertise and domain knowledge, despite 5 years of intensive involvement and good work, have lost my job.  Sometimes silence is gold - Discord is optional and is not necessary to contribute, and it's best to keep trolling or jokes or whatever outside of the general areas for those more sensitive to that - It is clear regardless of whether you were banned or not, many devs do not see eye to eye, and not only on ENIGMA, but everywhere, in the place I worked for, you had a group of devs who wanted change whilst another group wanted status quo or adhered to bureaucracy and shit - tough luck if a given project had all devs that were 100% on the sa me bloody fucking wave length life would be so much better indeed.

On the flip side of the coin people who really care about a project should overlook anything they find annoying and learn to ignore it and focus on what matters - those who are overly sensitive to criticism, trolls, or what not should stay away from the heat or just learn to channel out what they do not like, some people can't be bothered to channel out and will leave I guess.


« Last Edit: May 01, 2019, 10:05:04 PM by Darkstar2 » Logged
Offline (Male) time-killer-games
Reply #13 Posted on: May 02, 2019, 08:26:11 AM

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I'm going to step back in here long enough to say that the one time I'm being nice to the one person everyone else is treating rather poorly of course I'm being ignored by him. I'm practically taking his side in that i think he should still be on the main discord. Clearly there's a better way to resolve this than booting our only good programmer out. Yeah Robert and Josh are good too but fundies is making a lot of good points everyone is ignoring just because they way he is saying it isn't so kind.

Edit: skimming over darkstar2's post it makes me happy to know I'm not the only one being civil here. I didn't see the second page when writing this. Not to mention i almost forgot about hpg.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2019, 08:36:16 AM by time-killer-games » Logged
Offline (Male) time-killer-games
Reply #14 Posted on: May 02, 2019, 08:33:31 AM

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Free fundies Enigma without Fundies is like a child without it's mother A child but a child without its mother

Either fundies made a second account just to post this or we have a GMC'er spying on us. No thanks to this being on the home page.
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