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Author Topic: About ENIGMA's new direction - YOU KILLED IT officially !  (Read 280 times)
Offline (Unknown gender) The_Watcher
Posted on: August 05, 2018, 12:20:05 PM
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Congratulations to whoever genius woke up one day and had this messed up idea of THINKING they can take ENIGMA in a new direction - Are you guys still wasting your time ?  Years later not only have you done NOTHING but you have completely messed up whatever tiny hope was left for this project.

You have alienated 99% of your users by requiring people to download bloatware and manually compile SHIT - Nobody has time for that - people want to download and install - It defeats the whole purpose behind this whole goddamned project - might as well tell people to learn coding and write their own games.  Are you guys out of your minds ??? Because some lazy git cannot maintain windows executables anymore, you expect your user base to be mangling with all kinds of shit to install enigma and its components - you are dreaming,  You high ?

Some people have made progress, don't look far, users of game maker studio are not required to download a full suite software and compile the software they are going to use !!

As far as the IDE in 2, before engaging in lip service look no farther than your own back yard, your product is based on messed up code, a flawed and obsolete infrastructure and an absolutely horrible IDE, including the so-called latest attempt at reviving this mess-up. At least people have a working product on this side of the fence, nobody said it was perfect but it works

Let's see here...........

* Require users to download crap which installs tons of files on your hard rive, and makes so many unnecessary writes !!! only so users can then COMPILE your shit.............THEN they must also do the same to install the IDE !!!!
* No serious or ANY progress made with the core engine itself
* No updates to documentation on existing commands, or any removal of deprecated / non working commands

How the fuck is this considered progress ?

Instead of focusing on fixing what was broken you guys just went ahead and steered way off course, by not addressing important issues in your already flawed software, but the whole MSYS2 thing is a new low even for your already low standards.
Quite disappointing that you have decided to alienate the near totality of your user base, nobody has time for all this shit
people want to download and install software, now mess around with compilers !!!

You are still dabbing your cheese encrusted feet into a world of obsolete, whilst some of us are making PROGRESS and moving forward.
 
Have fun running around circles chasing your own tails :/
But alienating your user base that supported you from day 1, that is fucking unacceptable
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Offline (Male) cheeseboy
Reply #1 Posted on: August 06, 2018, 10:09:42 AM

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Enigma has always compiled. The exe you are referring to was msys2 (a very old version) that none of us wanted to maintain. There's nothing stopping you or anyone else from making a new one. As for documentation, the wiki is editable by all forum users so have at it.
There are only 1-3 devs at a time and enigma has never been a finished product and  probably won't be for a very long time. Remember enigma is a free program that anyone can contribute to.
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Offline (Male) Goombert
Reply #2 Posted on: August 06, 2018, 01:31:46 PM

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This topic is way off the rails and clearly way over the line between trolling and constructive criticism. We honestly shouldn't justify it with a response, but I can't help myself except to refute nearly all of these bullshit points.

Quote from: jackass
your product is based on messed up code
You're absolutely right, ENIGMA is based on modular and extensible components that are open source. Modern ENIGMA is also a lot more stable because it has continuous integration tests that are making the project more stable than ever before.

Quote from: jackass
THINKING they can take ENIGMA in a new direction
Well, sorry if you have a problem with people coming up with innovative ideas and working hard enough to actually pull them off. I guess you don't like people who believe in themselves?

Quote from: jackass
have you done NOTHING
Wrong.

Quote from: jackass
messed up whatever tiny hope was left for this project
Wrong.

Quote from: moron
You have alienated 99% of your users
rofl

Quote from: fucking moron
download bloatware and manually compile SHIT
GameMaker: Studio requires the exact same bloatware in the form of LLVM & Visual Studio. The difference here is that ENIGMA is not a giant monolithic piece of bloatware shit like GMS is. You can remove any of the extensions and you don't have to install all of the dependencies. If you did that, then I just feel sorry for you that you clearly don't know how to use a package manager and probably don't even know how to use your computer either.

Quote from: gigantic fucking moron
are not required to download a full suite software
Except, they ARE, GameMaker: Studio is a giant monolithic piece of shit.

Quote from: jackass
At least people have a working product on this side of the fence, nobody said it was perfect but it works
Yeah, you're right again, GMS is really hard to install on anything except Windows because it's a big ass monolith turd. They spent most of their time making sure it was difficult enough to even make GameMaker run on Windows that it's also impossible to run it on any other platform. You used to be able to run GM8 in Wine, you can't do the same for GMS.

Anyway, thanks for showing up and clarifying to all of us why ENIGMA is a GREAT PRODUCT!!!
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 01:37:08 PM by Goombert » Logged
I think it was Leonardo da Vinci who once said something along the lines of "If you build the robots, they will make games." or something to that effect.

Offline (Male) HitCoder
Reply #3 Posted on: August 06, 2018, 07:34:26 PM

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Congratulations to whoever genius woke up one day and had this messed up idea of THINKING they can take ENIGMA in a new direction - Are you guys still wasting your time ?  Years later not only have you done NOTHING but you have completely messed up whatever tiny hope was left for this project.
.

ok.

tbh if i may say something i'm very happy with this new direction and much prefer it. it's easier to maintain. sure, it's a little more fiddly to set up but it's worth it, you literally run a command or two to update everything entirely. Also, i've had less stability issues.

You have alienated 99% of your users by requiring people to download bloatware and manually compile SHIT - Nobody has time for that - people want to download and install - It defeats the whole purpose behind this whole goddamned project - might as well tell people to learn coding and write their own games.  Are you guys out of your minds ??? Because some lazy git cannot maintain windows executables anymore, you expect your user base to be mangling with all kinds of shit to install enigma and its components - you are dreaming,  You high ?
um... i mean, it's really not that hard...

Some people have made progress, don't look far, users of game maker studio are not required to download a full suite software and compile the software they are going to use !!
. um. as goombert stated, gms requires a bunch of prerequisites too and those are more bloated than anything enigma uses...
also... um... enigma has made a shit ton of progress iirc... stability issues resolved... i can actually get stuff to run now... um... idek what to say.

As far as the IDE in 2, before engaging in lip service look no farther than your own back yard, your product is based on messed up code, a flawed and obsolete infrastructure and an absolutely horrible IDE, including the so-called latest attempt at reviving this mess-up. At least people have a working product on this side of the fence, nobody said it was perfect but it works
erm, the ide is horrible sure. it's outdated and based on old gm, and that ide was never anything good.
GM:S2 isn't actually any better, let's be honest. it's literally just the old GM interface with a texture revamp and like 2 extra shortcuts added.

* Require users to download crap which installs tons of files on your hard rive, and makes so many unnecessary writes !!! only so users can then COMPILE your shit.............THEN they must also do the same to install the IDE !!!!
* No serious or ANY progress made with the core engine itself
* No updates to documentation on existing commands, or any removal of deprecated / non working commands
erm... this sounds more like GM to me than Enigma... also who tf even uses enigma's documentation for writing code lmao, it's based on gml so most people probably just google for gm stuff to use in enigma.

Instead of focusing on fixing what was broken you guys just went ahead and steered way off course, by not addressing important issues in your already flawed software, but the whole MSYS2 thing is a new low even for your already low standards.
man... they fix so much shit daily you'd have to be blind to not see that. They've fixed SO FUCKING MUCH. if you find anything broken, REPORT IT on the fucking github. You call these guys lazy, you're not even addressing the important issues you're finding, just things you dislike because you're too lazy to use msys2 (which actually gives you less hassle for updating to a new version of enigma.).

Quite disappointing that you have decided to alienate the near totality of your user base, nobody has time for all this shit
people want to download and install software, now mess around with compilers !!!
If you intend to become a developer you're going to have to learn to mess with compilers at some point.

You are still dabbing your cheese encrusted feet into a world of obsolete, whilst some of us are making PROGRESS and moving forward.
show us your progress then. if enigma is this much of a problem to you why bother with this post?


Have fun running around circles chasing your own tails :/
But alienating your user base that supported you from day 1, that is fucking unacceptable
you keep arguing the same thing this is clearly just a troll or shitpost lmao. nobody is actually being alienated.
and also, there's no circles here. if you want circles go play osu.
in all seriousness there's been a fuck ton of progress, but from what i see you don't really know enough to determine this.
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Offline (Male) time-killer-games
Reply #4 Posted on: August 06, 2018, 09:04:31 PM
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tl;dr
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Offline (Male) Josh @ Dreamland
Reply #5 Posted on: August 06, 2018, 09:39:44 PM

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You might benefit from a class in communication, Watcher. Choosing your words and your tone carefully is far more likely to net you what you want. Constructive criticism is always welcome; you have offered two points of this, while drowning your message in generally inflammatory speech.

ENIGMA is free software—its user base and its contributor base are one in the same. I'm sorry if you feel alienated; I would suggest that you consider contributing—joining the team and having your voice heard—but you have already claimed to simply not have time to build anything. That isn't the attitude on which free software thrives.

We recognize there are problems with the IDE, which is why a new one is under development. As has been stated, documentation is openly editable; it hasn't received much attention because it's an unattractive task. In general, this community is very supportive, and would happily answer the kinds of questions required to enable someone to document a function they didn't understand. If, when unable to find documentation on a function, you and other users would ask a developer (or look up the function in the open-source codebase) and document it yourself, this would quickly be a solved problem.

Compilers in general require a lot of disk space. We aren't just slapping your game onto a runner or linking it against a static library: we are building your code as C++ which you can integrate with any library on your system. The software that you are accusing of being bloated is (1) the compiler, which is big for numerous, very important reasons, and (2) the IDE, which depends on Java and so is scheduled for replacement.

The rest of your post seems to be an assault on the team because you don't believe we have made progress. You are entitled to your opinion, although the GitHub pulse disagrees with you.


Generally speaking, you oughtn't just show up and scream people out because a project that people work on for free in their spare time is not complete. I've had a number of requests to just ban you, but that isn't generally how I run things. I encourage you to calm down and attempt to be more constructive. Also, please don't necro three-year-old threads to point out a problem in them.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2018, 10:04:13 PM by Josh @ Dreamland » Logged
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Offline (Unknown gender) Darkstar2
Reply #6 Posted on: August 12, 2018, 12:26:00 AM
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You are still dabbing your cheese encrusted feet into a world of obsolete, whilst some of us are making PROGRESS and moving forward.
 
Have fun running around circles chasing your own tails :/
But alienating your user base that supported you from day 1, that is fucking unacceptable

Who's "WE" ? GMS2 is hardly progress, ok maybe some things have progressed, but they clearly have not listened to their user base and I'm not even going to get started on the IDE, you still must install software, in fact more, and bigger, and for an over priced software they sure update things on a snail's pace and their updates keep getting smaller and smaller with the time in between updates increasing significantly.  And they still own your soul in this life and in possibly future lives as well, so yeah, though I am still using GMS as unfortunately the LGM is not stable and GMS2 has many features that ENIGMA doesn't though understandably, you have to keep in mind this is open source, and free. One thing I appreciate with ENIGMA is the smaller file sizes, unfortunately GMS crams everything,  instead of only including the modules you will use, I've done some comparatives and tried compiling empty projects, the difference was significant, this is an area that GMS still lacks.  Though yeah there are many areas it seems that ENIGMA is lacking and behind though this is why you have a choice - it's still free and I make use of both worlds, though I would caution on praising GMS though   :D  The IDE is atrocious in some ways, you will have to do more clicks than ever before, hope you have a solid mouse that can withstand several millions of clicks because that mouse click button will wear out faster using GMS2's IDE ;/
So where's the progress you are talking about ? My biggest gripe with ENIGMA is the stability of the IDE but this was covered many times and the reasons why so yeah with a good, stable and functional IDE, ENIGMA would be a great alternative, minus some of the perks of GMS2, but with a much MUCH cleaner IDE and cleaner compiles........So you have to accept compromise somewhere, depending on the type of projects you are working on.


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Offline (Unknown gender) Darkstar2
Reply #7 Posted on: August 12, 2018, 12:33:08 AM
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GameMaker: Studio requires the exact same bloatware in the form of LLVM & Visual Studio. The difference here is that ENIGMA is not a giant monolithic piece of bloatware shit like GMS is. You can remove any of the extensions and you don't have to install all of the dependencies. If you did that, then I just feel sorry for you that you clearly don't know how to use a package manager and probably don't even know how to use your computer either.

How I wish that one day ENIGMA works with DarkRonin's video extension :D  GMS has won me over for that reason alone :D  but yeah as far as the bullshit point about installing stuff, I agree with you, GMS requires much more shit to install and it's much bigger too, but that shit is the price to pay for compiling vs. the RUNNER approach they used in the past.   I much prefer ENIGMA's new install process than going through the GMS install process anytime, though I'm wondering if he has even installed GMS - YIKES.

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Offline (Unknown gender) Darkstar2
Reply #8 Posted on: August 12, 2018, 07:47:57 PM
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How I wish that one day ENIGMA works with DarkRonin's video extension :D  GMS has won me over for that reason alone :D

Why thank you, son! :)

I'll have to give it another crack in ENIGMA once again and help you break those chains. :D

I wish we could use cursor keys to move around the messed up IDE in GMS2 instead of having to use mousewheel and wear out the mouse buttons, this is another major turn off for GMS2, the IDE, when you have so many things going you have to scroll here scroll there, make extra clicks,  etc.  happy to see that ENIGMA is still alive though if only i can get it to run :D 
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Offline (Male) time-killer-games
Reply #9 Posted on: August 12, 2018, 09:26:16 PM
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but that shit is the price to pay for compiling vs. the RUNNER approach they used in the past.

They still use the runner approach. That never went away. The only difference between the VM and YYC, the YYC packs the data.win / game.unx / game.ios / game.droid / etc into the runner executable, as aposed to being loaded externally.
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Offline (Male) time-killer-games
Reply #10 Posted on: August 12, 2018, 09:28:08 PM
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How I wish that one day ENIGMA works with DarkRonin's video extension :D  GMS has won me over for that reason alone :D

Why thank you, son! :)

I'll have to give it another crack in ENIGMA once again and help you break those chains. :D

Welcome back! I long for the day you decide to contribute! Many great things would happen if you did. :)
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Offline (Unknown gender) Darkstar2
Reply #11 Posted on: August 13, 2018, 12:22:56 AM
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How I wish that one day ENIGMA works with DarkRonin's video extension :D  GMS has won me over for that reason alone :D

Why thank you, son! :)

I'll have to give it another crack in ENIGMA once again and help you break those chains. :D

Welcome back! I long for the day you decide to contribute! Many great things would happen if you did. :)

Do you mean the engine itself, I was under the impression that it is now compiled in C++ along with the "YoYo engine".  In a way ENIGMA is like that too it compiles but it includes its own enigma engine with it, of course no comparaison that ENIGMA does things better, but on both products there is an engine, and the C++ generated is nowhere near coded from scratch clean C++, that's a fact, though I don't think people care nowadays anyway - much can be said about all the commercial games sold today, they are based off of engines, though again no comparaison code somewhat more optimized and compact than the big mess generated by YYG  - also that "runner / engine" is now C++ (right?) before it wasn't - YYG had lots of opportunities to make things significantly better, unfortunately they spent most of the time reworking the IDE than anything else, though the idea of tile based collision being integrated to the IDE in some upcoming release (probably before christmas 2021 ;P ) sounds appealing - Anything that gets users to stop using multiple instances and use tiles instead, this will greatly simplify things for those who don't want to mess with doing this manually which can be tricky unless you are an advanced user.   Hopefully eventually ENIGMA can integrate this.
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Offline (Male) time-killer-games
Reply #12 Posted on: August 13, 2018, 02:51:06 AM
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No. The only difference between the old runner and the new GMStudio runners for the most part is there is no more use of Delphi. So whether it is C++, Java, Objective-C, whatever, it is the same basic idea. YoYo is full of bullshit.
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Offline (Unknown gender) Darkstar2
Reply #13 Posted on: August 13, 2018, 02:08:55 PM
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From what I understand it was just the GMS 1.4 IDE that was coded in Deplhi which is why they were always reluctant to add IDE changes. The runner itself has always been written in C++ as far as I am aware.

Hmmm this is interesting - are you sure about that ? I do not believe the runner was always written in C++, in fact it wasn't as I recall YYG was mentioning for years that they plan on rewriting the runner to be C++.  I think what helped YYG big time is the market place, there are some very clever extensions that were made by the user base, they let their users do their dirty work, and yet they pocket the big money for an overpriced software - Many of those extensions give new life to the product by adding features that in some cases should have been included in a product that costs 4 figures, example video support this should be a basic feature of such software, so if there any positive thing to say about GMS it is mostly in part due to the great work made (including yours :D) through the market place, which is the reason why depending on the individual and project, there are some really cool things you can do with GMS that you cannot with ENIGMA, and this is NOT thanks to YYG but entirely thanks to the user base that did all the bloody work !  So the availability of those extensions offset some of the bullshit.  You know the expression right, you can't polish a turd but you can roll it in glitter, so the extensions help greatly, if only the IDE was not a giant fucked up mess and allowed cursor navigation instead of the constant wear and tear of the mouse it would be even nicer.  No other language support other than GML, major disappointment, no integration of C, nope, a still noticeable delay between the time a sound action is called and actual playback - this shit has been plaguing GM since its original days before YYG, I have not tried custom audio extensions yet to see if it resolves this.  So yeah even though GMS is full of utter shite, fact remains there are praises to be made and the product is useful depending on the individual and needs but the credits should go mostly to the users who have contributed through the market place and YYG has pocked big time from its users

I was told by YYG staff long ago that the 1.4 runner shares much of the code with the 2.x runner. Which was pretty apparent when the same bugs often showed up at the same time in both versions. For example the ugly cursor that was displayed up on XBox One UWP builds, which could not be removed.
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Offline (Unknown gender) Darkstar2
Reply #14 Posted on: August 13, 2018, 02:13:30 PM
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No. The only difference between the old runner and the new GMStudio runners for the most part is there is no more use of Delphi. So whether it is C++, Java, Objective-C, whatever, it is the same basic idea. YoYo is full of bullshit.

From what I understand it was just the GMS 1.4 IDE that was coded in Deplhi which is why they were always reluctant to add IDE changes. The runner itself has always been written in C++ as far as I am aware.

I was told by YYG staff long ago that the 1.4 runner shares much of the code with the 2.x runner. Which was pretty apparent when the same bugs often showed up at the same time in both versions. For example the ugly cursor that was displayed up on XBox One UWP builds, which could not be removed.

This is to be expected form any game creation software, there will always be a runner / engine at the core, none of them will create the same native C++ you would from making your own games from scratch.  As far being full of bullshit I can't argue there, though it does deserve SOME credits for the reasons I mentioned elsewhere, though mostly due to external contribution and maybe in some twisted way SOME from YYG though the whole product is nothing but glittered turd to be honest, fact remains there is lots that can be done with GMS that can't be done in ENIGMA, but it might not be fair to compare though because ENIGMA is FREE, BUT on the other hand, there are things that can be done in ENIGMA that can't be done or done efficiently in GMS, so there are pros and cons in both product it depends on your project - if there is something I can do in ENIGMA I will do it in priority over Game Mangled Studio, and if there is something I cannot do in ENIGMA, I will do it in GMS - I am still thankful for ENIGMA though, I've actually used ENIGMA for PERSONAL projects not even related to games :D
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