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Author Topic: Mac's 3D  (Read 3736 times)
Offline (Male) time-killer-games
Posted on: January 26, 2015, 11:48:17 AM

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Sorlok told me recently he's super busy so I want to avoid bugging him whenever possible. So im hoping he's not the only one who might know this. Does the Mac port of ENIGMA have 3D that works (whether whole or in part) or is it even implimented yet? If so, how does it compare to where Windows and Linux's 3D stands? Also when enigma uses cross-platform c++ functionality does this mean ENIGMA on all platforms (including Mac) should work about the same with all the cross platform code? Whenever theres a crossplatform update, does that mean if I bought a mac laptop I could instantly develop for mac with enigma, ie without having to wait for devs to build the binaries, I could just get the latest master and build myself for my use (and it expect it to work for the most part like it does on windows and linux)?

If theres anything you remember sorlok or TGMG telling you about the current mac ports state id love to know for future reference.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 11:50:46 AM by time-killer-games » Logged
Offline (Unknown gender) TheExDeus
Reply #1 Posted on: January 26, 2015, 02:01:30 PM

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The ENIGMA's engine code is partly generalized. Especially the drawing. So it's not like the draw_sprite() will be missing or something. All the drawing functions should be in Mac and be totally functional. Especially as the Mac actually uses GL, which is the most developed part of ENIGMA. So I don't think there will be big problems. Sorlok has already compiled several games in Mac, like Iji.

So in short, it's 3D should be exactly the same as on Window or Linux.

If the developer makes fixes or changes for the drawing system, then all of the platforms are affected instantly. But there is platform specific code too, and it's possible that a bug is fixed on Windows, but not fixed on Mac.
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Offline (Male) time-killer-games
Reply #2 Posted on: January 26, 2015, 03:33:23 PM

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Thank you so much Exdeus! This is very valuable information to me. As soon as I get enough money from a job the first thing on my wishlish is a semi-cheap used Mac on ebay. While I hate Apple, id like to support Windows Linux and Mac  for all my games, especially since not all of them will work on mobile. I personally find it a good standard for cross platform games that if you cant suport anything else, if nothing else with all your games support the bare minimum of windows mac and linux as desktops with decent, average hardware can almost always handle an indie game. Mobile doesnt have that  same potential at all. ie graphics  acceleration, etc and non-android based consoles are an unrealistic fortune to develop for. A lot of people are complaining about all the crappy/indie games coming to PS3/4 thanks to sony's new terms. Consoles and indie game devs are no match. They are not the same market.

Thank you so much for the info Harri! :D
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 03:36:21 PM by time-killer-games » Logged
Offline (Unknown gender) Darkstar2
Reply #3 Posted on: January 26, 2015, 04:18:37 PM
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Yes TKG, and more and more people will complain now that YYG is expanding its exports across several of the consoles, etc.......So you will see the garbage spread out now.....The crappy indie games were once reserved for PC, but now with game dev tools expanding, and the mobile and console craze, you will see very bad games indeed.

Companies are focusing on gfx and not gameplay anymore !  You will see this with many indie games, they show off their "SKILLZ" of using 3D engine and shit, but the story and game utter rubbish!

I once told you, you think outside the box and you have potential in your games, just push the limits, make longer versions and you could very well be on your way - mind you, you yourself are an indie developer so you might be subject to much the same criticism - but your games are far better than what most I've seen done in RumpStudio :D


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Offline (Male) time-killer-games
Reply #4 Posted on: January 26, 2015, 06:07:05 PM

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Thanks DS2, it means a lot hearing you say that! :D

Its also worth noting people really Into the computer / mobile gaming have really low standards and actually like very  crappy games, thats where us indies have a chance. In the console community, people wont even look at the screenshots for more than 3 seconds unless it doesnt scream indie.
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Offline (Unknown gender) Darkstar2
Reply #5 Posted on: January 26, 2015, 07:49:20 PM
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Thanks DS2, it means a lot hearing you say that! :D

Its also worth noting people really Into the computer / mobile gaming have really low standards and actually like very  crappy games, thats where us indies have a chance. In the console community, people wont even look at the screenshots for more than 3 seconds unless it doesnt scream indie.

There is a market for crap and I am sitting on a gold mine.  If I had any decent time I'd release a few crappy games, if people like them so much, hey I can be rich lol!

But TKG - remember, one should not judge a book by its cover.  You'd be surprised  ! I have seen stellar screenshots from indie games, amazing! but when you play the actual game it sucks donkey balls.
Some Indie developers clearly have graphics skill but ZERO game development skills ZERO game play.

But even non indie developers are not immune from rubbish, there are many commercial game developers for big companies that also are a pile of dung, again big graphics shitty game play.

At least with PONG and the likes of the games back then, you did not have to worry about people not liking your graphics lol!

Now DX12, DX13, DX14 cards, thousands of $ for new GPUs and fuck all to show for.....games are getting rushed buggy, unoptimised and pure shite.

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Offline (Male) time-killer-games
Reply #6 Posted on: January 26, 2015, 08:19:00 PM

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Strongly disagree. Here's what ive known my whole life to be real.

The vast majority of non-indie games have amazing graphics, well thought out gameplay, story, and a long ass duration.

Indie game developers or *cough* most that I have met arent exactly in touch with reality. They are jealous  of the artistic talent big companies can pull off. So they attack the gameplay. I dont know why they like to pull that dumb ass argument all the time. Most indies have zero artistic ability and almost all of them are refusing to take art classes because they are lazy and suck on "8 bit" pixel art weirners. Its an excuse to not try because the minority of gamers have no appreciation for visual beauty or the eyeballs they were born with. Hey its better than no one feeling that way!

non indie on average = visual appeal, detail, real graphics, real works of art. Long ass gameplay. Great story, or at least better than any shitty indie story. Fun gamplay that you can spend a long lifetime thoroughly enjoying.

non-retro indie, the category I fall under = mild visual appeal, stupid stories and gameplay concepts that try so hard to stand out without actually standing out in a good way. Short ass unapealing ganeplay you can pickup up, beat, and never touch again in under 5 minutes flat.

retro indie - by nature, though commonly do  they bash people with more talent about their gameplay. Because they are too lazy too draw,  they cant do anythingright. Their to lazy to do everything else. Flappy bird being a classic example. People like taking their phone out of their pocket and play it for 20 sec in the dentist waiting room, but who are you kidding. Would a hard core gamer with taste play sky rim, sims, call of duty, halo OR would they choose a free mobile app when they already  own all those games? Let me rephrase that, how likely would someone spend a lifetime having a blast with all those games, or waste just that much time on flappy bird. How many people out of a 1000 would actually do that.

semi-unlazy retro indie. This is where they are  stil too lazy to spend more than 2 minutes on the graphics, but they actually try making good gameplay, only to fail all the same way non-retro indies do as far as gameplay. Very stort gameply. Trying way to hard to be weird or outside of the box to stand out even though not in a good way. Stories that make my teeth clinch in agony and disastisfaction.

also indies in general need to work on their english, especially those who have it as their first language, because they are just as bad at it.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2015, 08:24:00 PM by time-killer-games » Logged
Offline (Male) time-killer-games
Reply #7 Posted on: January 26, 2015, 08:39:05 PM

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I dpnt understand why im willing to see, regnize and admit my weaknesses but retro indies refuse too and spend so much time pretending like babies that AAA quality games generally speaking have incredibly worse gameplay than most indies and that is FUCKING STUPID. When will all these people admit they arent and never will be as good as or anything close to a SINGLE AAA company. That takes amazing arrogance, jealousy and self-insecurity. Do you see me acting like I have better gamplay, duration,  graphics, or ANYTHING compared to AAA companies? Sorry but I dpn't get high on such stupidity.
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Offline (Unknown gender) Darkstar2
Reply #8 Posted on: January 26, 2015, 10:41:37 PM
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Strongly disagree. Here's what ive known my whole life to be real.

The vast majority of non-indie games have amazing graphics, well thought out gameplay, story, and a long ass duration.

LOL you must be stuck in the stone age ! Yes some non indie games are eye candy, but some games really suck, in terms of gameplay ,replay factor and long ass duration lol!  Many PC games are too damn short ( I am talking single campaign mode )  you won'T find much single campaign modes lasting 50-60 hours nowadays......Most games have placed emphasis on next gen eye candy and short game play, people finishing games in 5-10 hours etc.
You will find many of those on game review sites.
There are too many to list.

So was duke nukem forever (the long awaited, hyped HIT we waited for 500 years for) an Indie game ? Nope, but it sucked major shite that's for sure.

lost planet PC = utter shite

mirror's edge = too damn short !! RIDICULOUSLY short, zero game replay value !

Then there are some games so bloody long and horrendous you can'T wait for the end to arrive,
only to notice that the end was pure garbage, just like the one in DNF.........

So yeah.......I guess you've not been playing the same games :D

Quote
Indie game developers or *cough* most that I have met arent exactly in touch with reality. They are jealous  of the artistic talent big companies can pull off. So they attack the gameplay. I dont know why they like to pull that dumb ass argument all the time. Most indies have zero artistic ability and almost all of them are refusing to take art classes because they are lazy and suck on "8 bit" pixel art weirners. Its an excuse to not try because the minority of gamers have no appreciation for visual beauty or the eyeballs they were born with. Hey its better than no one feeling that way!

Which would you rather play...

A shitty game with next generation eye candy
OR a modest to low grade graphics with amazing gameplay/story ?

Not everyone is talented in art don't mean they are lazy mang :D

and not everyone has $250k to study either !

you don't need to be an expert graphics designer to make a decent game.

Flappy bird is the best example of this......the graphics were not exactly top notch lol yet the guy was potentially sitting on a pile of cash ($50k a day)
if only he had not made some bad decisions and swallowed his pride, he would have accepted things and just gone with the flow.

I've played some adventure games in the days, they were by all means not state of the art visuals but they were engaing, story wise, and fun!

Quote
non indie on average = visual appeal, detail, real graphics, real works of art. Long ass gameplay. Great story, or at least better than any shitty indie story. Fun gamplay that you can spend a long lifetime thoroughly enjoying.

Agreed, but disagreed with the most part, there many lousy ass computer games.  Not all non indie games are best sellers :P Some are pure garbage.

Quote
appeal, stupid stories and gameplay concepts that try so hard to stand out without actually standing out in a good way. Short ass unapealing ganeplay you can pickup up, beat, and never touch again in under 5 minutes flat.

LOL I thought the game 4PM was too damn short,
you probably have broke the record for shortest games.......5 minutes is a tad too short IMO.
Remember people want longevity......if they wanted a 5 minute thrill they'd smoke some weed and spank the monkey ! :D

Quote
also indies in general need to work on their english, especially those who have it as their first language, because they are just as bad at it.

lol - I know what you mean,I agrie..... :D
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Offline (Unknown gender) TheExDeus
Reply #9 Posted on: January 27, 2015, 03:11:35 AM

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It really does come down to gameplay. Like minecraft is not a pretty looking game, but has been far more popular than many AAA titles. Just like Terraria with its 8bit style was a lot more popular. And so have been many other indie games (meatboy, fez and so on). That is because people can waste tens or hundreds of hours playing those games, yet you finish CoD in 4 hours and trow it out. Multiplayer is usually pretty bad for many AAA games too. AAA games that have been utter disasters both in polish and gameplay recently are such gems as AC:Unity, Watchdogs and even Far Cry4. Far Cry 4 has an interesting story line and interesting characters, but the gameplay is so boring, that rarely anyone can struggle trough it all. But I guess to each his own.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 03:14:56 AM by TheExDeus » Logged
Offline (Male) time-killer-games
Reply #10 Posted on: January 27, 2015, 06:44:58 AM

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Something else worth mentioning. How many indies think all their games have better gameplay than most if not all AAA? Now, guess how many of them are actually right. LOL.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 06:47:21 AM by time-killer-games » Logged
Offline (Unknown gender) TheExDeus
Reply #11 Posted on: January 27, 2015, 07:38:25 AM

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People usually don't review their own games, so I haven't seen people saying that their gameplay is better than any AAA game. It's also useless to compare two different games (because indies and AAA's are usually in different genres, which makes the comparison impossible). But if you ask many reviewers or gamers on which game was more engaging and took more of their time, then it's often indie games even more than AAA's.
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Offline (Male) time-killer-games
Reply #12 Posted on: January 27, 2015, 06:03:20 PM

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I see new quotes every day that make me chuckle with joy, because I couldnt agree  more with them.

For instance - http://n4g.com/news/1548236/sony-loves-devs-but-ps4-gamers-hate-indie

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Picture the scenario. You have seen eye watering, jaw dropping trailers and video demos from events like E3, and Gamescom leading up to the launch of the PlayStation 4. You have gotten excited over the greatness await campaigns, saving up your hard earned pocket money, even trading your good-old PS3 and PS Vita to buy the next leap in gaming technology. You eagerly take it home, quickly skimming over the manual before setting it up on your 60 inch HD Sony Bravia. You go online looking for what else to play beyond the major limited AAA titles on offer and all you get is a bunch of crappy looking atari rehashed indies.(PlayStation Network, PS Vita, PS3, PS4)

Quote

I'm a huge PS fan and I HATE indie games. Most of them are garbage and they are flodding Playstation. I rather have less games that are quality than a shitload of garbage.

The only peopleive known to ridicule most AAA games for their gamepIay or any other excuse are indie DEVS. As for people who hate almost all indie games, are actual, non-dev PLAYERS. There is an obious reason for that I would rather you'd guess but I know it wonrt be admitted, the reason is pure jealousy.

Ever wondered why EVERYONE on planet earth doesnt have an ouya unless they are a developer? No gamer I met knows what the fuck an ouya is, but almost just about every indie dev I met (online) does. Its because the OUYA bombed, NOT bacause its an android console. Its because except for like 3 super old game ports like Sonic CD and Final Fantasy 3 everythibg on their fucking catalog is indie shit. Yes its android based and a lot of people complain about that. But what the gamers dont know and or refuse to admit is even if the OUYA was as good with graphics and hardware that it  was like another ps4 or xbox one, withindie devs the only ones making games for it, and since most indie devs have zero appreciation for visual appeal and normal human aesthetics, its not like they'd actually make use of such hardware. Look at ps4 the mircale console, all the indies youll be able to see in their catalog are 2D low res bleeding shits. Thats why no one likes ouya, thats all they have.

Flappy bird was a success with popularity and download count but when it comes to the thril factor, everyone ive talked to (over 30 people ive asked this question) they all agree AAA console or PC games are much better, they justcant carry their Xbox or PC in their pocket like they can with their phone. They laughed at my question with the expacted response (and i quote "are you kidding? Dont you already know what my answer is?") Not everyone can afford console and decent PC games. Flappy bird is FREE. Can you name a single non-ouya non-indie console game that is free? GOOD LUCK if all console games were 100% free and could fit in your pocket without any loss in quality or performance, flappy bird wouldve never been downloaded. Everyone would be downloading the good stuff instead if it was just as accessable. People have their phones with them fucking EVERYWHERE therefore a lot more time on the hands to use it all the fucking time. Your console and PC is attached to your wall at  home, most people who have friends and a life usually dont spend that time at home unless its a depressing rainy day. Or if they are acrually in a gaming party mood, aka they wantvto play AA games because they are actually desirable and FUN. Where as with indie and mobile youll never see normal people spend a real "gaming party" on their phones playing flappy bird. People who resort to moble are BORED and refuse  be IDLE. Just because they are fullfilling their 5 five minutes with what would have otherise would be staring at the wall, doesnt mean they are having literal heaps of fun. It just means they are not in a position to be capable of doing anything else with time.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 06:48:06 PM by time-killer-games » Logged
Offline (Unknown gender) Darkstar2
Reply #13 Posted on: January 27, 2015, 06:52:33 PM
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lol !

Stop generalising please :)

I am not an indie developer per se and I don't put down all AAA games....I said not all non indie games are quality, there is lot of garbage games on the market, you just have not had the chance to play them or follow the gaming industry and reviews.....there has been many documented and reviewed everywhere.

People who are critical of AAA games not necessarily only indie devs - some can just be avid gamers with high standards, who have never developer a motherfucking game in their lives :D 

Whilst it is true that some indie devs can be a tad critical of AAA, it does not mean that it is limited to only indies...........

Also some people tend to not like anything and will find a flaw with any game they play whether good or not, again, these people can be indie or non indie devs or simply gamers who don't masturbate enough or get laid and get their hard-ons on games and their standards are a bit unrealistic.

ANd then you have genuine complaints of games that are pure tosh.
They have graphics but lack the gameplay and longevity.

Who wants to spend $59 on a game if they can finish it in 5 bloody hours on hard!!!

and yet who wants to play online anymore, with all the cheating cock suckers and game ragers.  (Have you seen some of those youtube videos ? CHrist it's like some people really have issues dude, they wank more! :D

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Offline (Male) time-killer-games
Reply #14 Posted on: January 27, 2015, 07:02:57 PM

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Okay first of all when I make general statements like ALL it an exageration of the word MOST to make a point.  If MOST meaning 75% or more Im sorry ill call that ALL. Its not a huge difference. You had nothing to say about all the points I made. Does this mean you are ready to stop pretending? Yes, you havent "completed" a game, ut you are actively seeking to move in that direct when you have more time for it (you sure have enough tine to write 100 page books on game development on this site spdcifically) and its your dream, is it not? You know some decent GMl and C++. Guess how many *normal* gamers could say the samr about themself? They dont  give a goddamn fuck aboutmaking games, all they know is they like playing them and are satisfied enough with that by itself.

You meet all the criterea to be jealous just like any other indie dev.

Also games as expensive as you mentioned at such a duration have this magical thing called "multiplayer" which every indie game ive played doesnt have. As if you werent awar, the human-to-human interaction provided in multiplayer can make games even the mostshort ones on single player mode can last a lifetime and dont get old quickly. :p
« Last Edit: January 27, 2015, 07:46:09 PM by time-killer-games » Logged
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