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Author Topic: MacOS Counter-intuitive?  (Read 4565 times)
Offline (Male) Goombert
Posted on: July 30, 2014, 12:09:12 AM

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Is Macintosh the most counter-intuitive operating system in the world? Let's examine the evidence.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2019, 07:32:32 PM by Goombert » Logged
I think it was Leonardo da Vinci who once said something along the lines of "If you build the robots, they will make games." or something to that effect.

Offline (Male) edsquare
Reply #1 Posted on: July 30, 2014, 12:20:41 AM

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OS-X is a ripoff of BSD, since their license at the time did allowed for you to take the code and close it it's not illegal, also they used the community for a while to help them develop the OS as they wanted it (For a while you could donload OSX Darwin source code) and when it was stable enough they closed it and gave the community the finger.

For those reasons and the price tag on any mac product I say...

FUCK THEM!
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Offline (Unknown gender) Darkstar2
Reply #2 Posted on: July 30, 2014, 12:49:10 AM
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I don't recommend putting your dick on the keyboard Robert...... ;D

But yeah I agree, I cannot stand those gesture ridden ****ot operating systems.

Not an APPLE or MAC person myself, so yeah I agree with you home slice !  :pseudo:
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Offline (Male) Rusky
Reply #3 Posted on: July 30, 2014, 10:28:21 AM

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You can still download the Darwin/XNU source code (https://www.opensource.apple.com/) and it's not like they just rebranded some BSD distro without writing any of their own code.

It also turns out that every time I look for machines with specs equivalent to Apple hardware, whether it's off-the-shelf or putting it together myself from parts, I hit the same price points.

Hate on two-finger-right-click all you want, but you're making crap up.
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Offline (Male) edsquare
Reply #4 Posted on: July 30, 2014, 10:39:30 AM

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You can still download the Darwin/XNU source code (https://www.opensource.apple.com/) and it's not like they just rebranded some BSD distro without writing any of their own code.

Even if they had rebranded it it would still be legal. Did they write some code? Yes! they certainly did, and also people from the opensource community contributed to it, only when it was stable enough did they closed the source. Didn't know you could still find the source for Darwin, my bad.

It also turns out that every time I look for machines with specs equivalent to Apple hardware, whether it's off-the-shelf or putting it together myself from parts, I hit the same price points.

Really? Here in México I checked the prices for a similar box that I was going to ensamble myself and it did cost a lot more than the machine I ended up buying but nowhere near the price of a MAC, hell I could buy an Alienware box and still save a few bucks!

Hate on two-finger-right-click all you want, but you're making crap up.

I do not hate two-finger-right-click (never have used a mac), neither am I making shit up, Everything Mac did was legal but not completely ethical.
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Offline (Male) Goombert
Reply #5 Posted on: July 30, 2014, 03:46:27 PM

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hell I could buy an Alienware box and still save a few bucks!
Couldn't agree more.

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Everything Mac did was legal but not completely ethical.
Couldn't agree more.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2019, 07:33:13 PM by Goombert » Logged
I think it was Leonardo da Vinci who once said something along the lines of "If you build the robots, they will make games." or something to that effect.

Offline (Unknown gender) TheExDeus
Reply #6 Posted on: July 30, 2014, 04:18:15 PM

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It also turns out that every time I look for machines with specs equivalent to Apple hardware, whether it's off-the-shelf or putting it together myself from parts, I hit the same price points.
In the part of EU I live I also can usually assemble a better PC with the cost of MAC. Or a cheaper one with the same power as a MAC. Even my current rig was cheaper than a mac, yet as powerful or even more so than many mac's.
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Offline (Male) Goombert
Reply #7 Posted on: July 30, 2014, 05:00:20 PM

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lol, Harri you are actually arguing against what he is saying. You're suggesting Mac is overpriced and he is suggesting Mac is priced in the interest of the consumer with little or not commission.
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I think it was Leonardo da Vinci who once said something along the lines of "If you build the robots, they will make games." or something to that effect.

Offline (Unknown gender) TheExDeus
Reply #8 Posted on: July 30, 2014, 05:45:01 PM

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lol, Harri you are actually arguing against what he is saying. You're suggesting Mac is overpriced and he is suggesting Mac is priced in the interest of the consumer with little or not commission.
That was my point. I wasn't agreeing with him. I was agreeing with ED^2.
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Offline (Male) Rusky
Reply #9 Posted on: July 30, 2014, 05:53:19 PM

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What community-written code ended up in OS X that is now inaccessible and/or not still part of an open source project?

What parts or product are you using to beat which Mac?

I don't really care about your opinion on Mac's right click functionality, just the false claims.
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Offline (Male) edsquare
Reply #10 Posted on: July 30, 2014, 06:07:30 PM

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What community-written code ended up in OS X that is now inaccessible and/or not still part of an open source project?

Since it's closed source we cannot know can we?, But that's not the point, did they use community writen code on the development of their closed source OS or not? If you or I can download said code can we then develop an OS-X compatible distro? In opensource projects you take and you give back, if you close it how can we know what upgrades you did to the community's code that you are not releasing? Illegal? I doubt it. Unethical? Youbetcha!

What parts or product are you using to beat which Mac?

I don't remember right now but it's not that hard to find out, will do so in a couple of days, same power all around and we can check prices.

I don't really care about your opinion on Mac's right click functionality, just the false claims.


Okey.

EDIT:

Challenge accepted  :D

Look here: http://lifehacker.com/5919132/build-the-mac-pro-that-you-wish-apple-released

And here: http://www.tonymacx86.com/section/295-customac.html

Not exactly the same machines is true but, most mac users, if given one in the mac case with a hackintosh install wouldn't know the difference, another advantage the clone has is that I get to choose my OS And change it whenever I fill like it, without having to kiss steve's ass!
« Last Edit: July 30, 2014, 06:22:00 PM by edsquare » Logged
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Offline (Male) Rusky
Reply #11 Posted on: July 30, 2014, 07:09:29 PM

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You claim the community contributed code which was later closed off. I claim that did not happen, and that community contributed code was and is still part of open source projects like LLVM, coreutils, etc.

Macs have had Boot Camp since 2006, so you get to choose the OS there too. OS X is also free (used to be around $25-30), unlike Windows which is included in the price of all the off-the-shelf PCs you might compare with and is far from free in custom-built setups. Further, OS X is much more stable on Apple hardware than <insert OS here> on <insert hardware here>, so dual booting on a Mac is strictly better compatibility-wise than dual booting with hackintosh.

Here are the things the entry-level lifehacker build lacks that the Mac Pro they compared with has:
Xeon rather than i7 (bigger CPU cache, more hardware threads, higher upgrade ceiling)
ECC RAM
Twice as much available RAM space (64Gb vs 32Gb)
Two GPUs rather than one
Faster SSD: http://macperformanceguide.com/MacPro2013-performance-SSD.html
6 Thunderbolt ports rather than 2

The effect of these differences may or may not be a big deal for your use case, but when it does make a difference and you need those features, you'll pay the same for hardware whether you go with a Mac or not.
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Offline (Male) edsquare
Reply #12 Posted on: July 30, 2014, 07:53:34 PM

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Yea I know about bootcamp, still don't want a mac with windows nor with linux, you forget that in most cases macs come with less usb ports, and in some cases without a cd/dvd combo because fuck the user, they have to use their (ours really  ;) ) machines the way we tell them.

Did you check the price of the CPUs? I could buy the xeon and save money (10 to 20 bucks), have you seen a mac while open? I have, it's a nightmare to upgrade, also the ram slots... how much would a different motherboard cost you? about 50 extra bucks?

The price difference is around 1000 bucks if I remeber correctly, search the bits and do the math maybe youll save less but don't tell me mac's are sold at price and with the OS on top. Please, that's a fantasy.

Make the comparison but don't make it in the most expensive stores, go where you can buy the same stuff but cheapper, and I'm not suggesting low end anything, same brand, same model better price. If here in México is possible to save about 400 bucks in a regular pc by putting it together yourself at least I could save the same amount on a mac clone.

There was a time when a mac was something special, when their hardware was special because they didn't use the same hardware that other pc's, then a mac was faster than machines with more ram and bigger gpu's, why? lots of stuff was done at hardware level instead of at OS level hence the speed gain. In those days a mac was the machine for graphic design, much as irix was the os for movie fx and 3d animation, those days are gone.

Mac's are still good machines but a little bit overpriced, and if you dont save half or more is because you'll buy one case, one motherboard, one cpu and so on, something manufacturers don't do, the buy in bulck and save because of that.
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Offline (Male) Josh @ Dreamland
Reply #13 Posted on: July 30, 2014, 10:31:48 PM

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It comes down to a matter of philosophy. What could be simpler than one giant button?



This philosophy continues to be a big part of Apple's R&D:


You shouldn't be mad at them for running off with BSD, though; BSD devs aren't. They do give back, as needed. They just don't help with, eg, X11's huge set of ancient problems. In fact, they've ruined X11 on OS X. Rather than write wrappers for it and GTK (assuming that'd even be needed if they offered a full X11 API), they've decided to just write a shitty window adapter, which has to be run as a separate process any time you want to open anything GTK.

From a structure standpoint, OS X is vastly superior to Windows. For example, creating a button is not a kernel operation in OS X. From a usability standpoint... well, Snow Leopard is an improvement over Leopard which is a MASSIVE improvement over Tiger, which made my unfortunate existence a living hell with its astounding unintuitiveness and general brokenness. Of course, I was the tech guy, so all of everyone's problems were my problems and so I am likely to hold some kind of bias. As someone who is particularly picky about my windowing environment, I also find Tiger's window manager to be worthless, featureless garbage. Leopard vastly improved on that, but the whole system still leaves a lot to be desired. I'd put Snow Leopard < Windows 7 < Unity < Every other Linux DE < GNOME 3 < Cinnamon < XFCE < GNOME 2 (Note that in general XFCE is the best due to its extreme customizability, but I really loved the features available in a default GNOME 2 install).
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Offline (Male) edsquare
Reply #14 Posted on: July 30, 2014, 11:53:37 PM

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I really loved the features available in a default GNOME 2 install

Me too, a shame they fucked up gnome3 so badly, unity stinks, I hate KDE, mate isn't ready yet, cinnamon is the only real alternative to gnome2, I also love some bits and stuff of xcfe and lxde but... neither ever felt as intuitive as gnome2 did, lets see if when they finish porting lxde to qt it's still usable. About Mac's and windows desktop experience, funny how they have been around since forever, both come from multibillion companies and yet they can't compete in usability with the opensource community.

Unity sucks big time! Did I mention that? What kind of fucktard makes a desktop look and behave like a phone? In a Phone or tablet you have very little desktop real-state so you need something like unity, but in my desktop I don't want your fucking retarded "hot corners" nor your stupid menu whatchamacallit where you can't find anything easily, and to top it all you insult me by putting a "fallback" mode that supossedly works like Gnome2? FUCK YOU!
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