Pages: 1
  Print  
Author Topic: All Roads Lead To Rome  (Read 2192 times)
Offline (Male) Goombert
Posted on: December 18, 2013, 07:10:11 AM

Developer
Location: Cappuccino, CA
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2993

View Profile
With the advent of Josh and IsmAvatar throwing hissy fits and leaving the project, me and cheeseboy are curious as to what direction people think we should try to go with development.
Logged
I think it was Leonardo da Vinci who once said something along the lines of "If you build the robots, they will make games." or something to that effect.

Offline (Unknown gender) popcade
Reply #1 Posted on: December 18, 2013, 10:17:21 AM

Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 29

View Profile
Android if possible...
Logged
Offline (Unknown gender) AsuMagic
Reply #2 Posted on: December 18, 2013, 11:13:24 AM
Member
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 23

View Profile Email
A full rewrite because of bugs + Rewrite of IDE would be awesome but would take a lot of time...
Logged
Offline (Unknown gender) egofree
Reply #3 Posted on: December 19, 2013, 08:19:11 AM
Contributor
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 601

View Profile Email
It's hard to give one answer, as several items are important.
Concerning the full rewrite, i have one question : is really needed ? I mean why would it be necessary ? Is the project not well coded or it's because it's not easy to add new functionalities ? As i am not a developer on this project i can't answer. Anyway Robert you said you want to leave the project, so do you will have enough time to do it yourself ?
I don't think Android is the priority. If users are not happy with ENIGMA right now, it would not be helpful if we add Android support.
First, i think bugs fixing is the most important, as it was a problem before. I am sure that if ENIGMA was not very successful, it was mostly because of bugs. But i know a lot has been done already, and i didn't have the possibility to test in depth ENIGMA recently, so i don't know it's still a problem.
Then GM compatibility is important. I know a lot of people say GM is crap, but ENIGMA has been made at first to be a competitor of GM. Finally, it would be very useful to improve the editors.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2013, 08:10:42 AM by egofree » Logged
Offline (Male) time-killer-games
Reply #4 Posted on: December 19, 2013, 09:52:48 AM

Contributor
Location: Virginia Beach
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1167

View Profile Email
Better compatibility with GMS is my vote. Once that is done and GMX loading and saving is completely stable with a recent version of GMStudio we can then start an android port IMHO. Enigma and LGM shouldn't be rewritten as of now that is a waste of time, LGM may be written in java but that doesn't matter GMStudio's IDE is written in Delphi which is just as slow but no one really cares because what really matters for the most part is fast games, because games need to be fast and not lag to sell well, whereas IDE's typically don't use up that many resources so unless you have a project the size of China there's no room for any cause of lagging. The compiler shouldn't be rewritten either. Bugs should be fixed with what we currently have.

Priority List Summary:

1 - Bug fixes and complete GMX reader/writer
2 - new platforms
3 - New features that ENIGMA doesn't have yet (whether they are from GMS or not)
4 - New IDE

But don't replace the compiler with LLVM this would be a turn off and people might not be as likely to try ENIGMA because this project will only get noticed if it has anything that GMS doesn't have, because no matter what GMS will always have things Enigma won't, we need at least something to show our engine is worth using for more so than studio for whatever reason that may be. This could be one of those reasons.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2013, 09:54:23 AM by time-killer-games » Logged
Offline (Male) Sslaxx
Reply #5 Posted on: December 19, 2013, 10:02:35 AM

Member
Location: UK
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 72
AOL Instant Messenger - MrSslaxx Yahoo Instant Messenger - mrsslaxx
View Profile Email
Lots of projects - high profile projects - use LLVM, time-killer-games. Why should anyone worry if GM:S uses LLVM or not and if ENIGMA does or not as well? Don't forget, LLVM is the basis for the Clang compiler. It's also the basic for Nvidia's CUDA compiler. Mono has an LLVM implementation. At least one compiler toolchain for Android uses it. LLVM is not an issue.

http://www.llvm.org/Users.html - and this list is itself four years out of date. These were the companies, organisations etc. listed by LLVM/Apple about who was using it in 2009.
Logged
Stuart "Sslaxx" Moore.
Offline (Unknown gender) The 11th plague of Egypt
Reply #6 Posted on: December 20, 2013, 03:40:14 AM
Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 274

View Profile
I voted for a complete rewrite.
I was joking.

I'm tired of having the parser rewrote.
Josh was too proud to adopt LLVM, and he failed at delivering his own parser.
Do what must be done. But postpone it if necessary.

Android is first. You can't ignore mobile platforms anymore. You have to support at least Android.
Logged
Offline (Male) Jimmy_D
Reply #7 Posted on: January 22, 2014, 03:29:14 PM
Member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 69

View Profile
Better compatibility with GMS is my vote.

Agreed.  Complete rewrite would be time consuming.  What needs complete rewrite is Game Mker itself :P  In all fairness to YYG, when they acquired the project, they worked with what they had which was less than optimal........Rewriting the program was out of the question at the time, but later instead of focusing on what people actually wanted, they lost time and resources and paint themselves n a corner.
Again in all fairness, GM:S still has gone a long way and so much thing are better now, but so many things are not still, so any serious windows developer who has talent everywhere else but coding and wants to do good games, don't have the time or patience to learn C++ or other language, are getting obstacles........  Good moves over the years from YYG but they lately they keep taking 2 steps forward, 4 steps backwards.

If ENIGMA could focus on becoming as compatible as can be with GM:S, blending in obsoleted windows function and adding UNIQUE features as to not completely copy the other side, would be even better.

I think YYG does not give a two shits about windows anymore.
Right now they are set on mobile......  So I reckon that if ENIGMA starts to offer multiple exports option, this is when it will awake the beast in YYG and they might have grounds to sue....... :P Who knows,
their biggest revenue earner is mobile developers, they are banking on clueless (in my opinion) devs who dish out $800 for software to make their wee games and sell their have finished crap on the app stores.

SO.....I see a great opportunity for ENIGMA to focus mostly on windows for now, where it would certainly compete strongly against YYG, then later on add export options.  I think the other export
options should be last priority.
But what am I to know right, paid shill of YYG ?    ;D :D ;D :D 
So those of you who thought so, are now proven wrong and we can move on.

Quote
Enigma and LGM shouldn't be rewritten as of now that is a waste of time, LGM may be written in java but that doesn't matter GMStudio's IDE is written in Delphi which is just as slow but no one really cares

Actually people should.  It's not the language that's the problem but how poorly it is coded.  The IDE does matter.  Have you tried working on very large / complex projects, importing large resources ? See what happens.......Their weakest point is the bloody IDE which is an unstable pile of dung if you are working with large projects / large assets.  Since majority of their members there make retro games, rip off mario ports and catch the clown games or tiny games, they won't notice the big flaws of the IDE.  Now that's not all, they are working on a rewrite of their IDE (uh, really ? Sort of) and it's headed to being another big mistake, won't be any faster for sure and still will have problems, new ones.

NOW this is where ENIGMA would shine again......Allow adding new functions to allow all unused assets (sounds, graphics, etc.) to be stored in a large resource files or files, and using a script dynamically load them as needed.....Oh wait, doesn't GM:S already do that ?  LOL yeah, poorly !

Quote
because what really matters for the most part is fast games, because games need to be fast and not lag to sell well,

Content is equally important.  It's no use trying to make a fast and lag free catch the clown game either  :D

There are many PC games that would fit the description of laggy, buggy, highly mediocre, and they still sell for some reason.
There is more to a game than eye candy, and it seems a lot of devs are focusing on that lately and not actual gameplay ! That is sad.

But you have a good point.  Fast games that don't lag.  But you also need a good, solid and stable IDE that does not crash and fuck up your large projects and can handle large assets/large projects. or if they can't handle the shite then simply set hard limits and warn the user that they can't import GIF files more than X megs. :D

Quote
whereas IDE's typically don't use up that many resources so unless you have a project the size of China there's no room for any cause of lagging. The compiler shouldn't be rewritten either. Bugs should be fixed with what we currently have.

When I fucking pay  money for a software, unless it is specifically written in the manual that I cannot use the software to make large games, I expect it to do what it was intended for.  If I wanted to make large games I would expect it to handle the resources.  If the IDE cannot handle it, fine......allow functions to use external resources ***PROPERLY***.  There should be no excuses for an IDE not to handle large projects.  It would be CRAZY for a game developer to load everything in memory, particularly with a program like GM:S...resources are uncompressed in memory right ? So it's logical that for a bigger game, one would want to load all those MP3/sprites/graphics, cut scenes, rooms, etc, as needed, like any commercial games.
Somehow this was possible with GM8.1, but they totally fucked that up in GM:S. 

Quote
Priority List Summary:

1 - Bug fixes and complete GMX reader/writer
2 - new platforms
3 - New features that ENIGMA doesn't have yet (whether they are from GMS or not)
4 - New IDE

In my opinion I would put new platforms at #3 or even #4.
Build a strong foundation first, then add the extras.

Quote
But don't replace the compiler with LLVM this would be a turn off and people might not be as likely to try ENIGMA because this project will only get noticed if it has anything that GMS doesn't have, because no matter what GMS will always have things Enigma won't, we need at least something to show our engine is worth using for more so than studio for whatever reason that may be. This could be one of those reasons.

Agreed 100%  Make ENIGMA compatible as much as possible,
but also make ENIGMA unique in many ways, new features,
etc. 

When you say no matter what GM:S will always have things ENIGMA won't........:P like what ?  a hefty price tag ? Myriad of never-ending bugs and issues (oh wait......:P never mind!) I think the number complaint over the years is performance ! and obsoleted windows stuff.
Logged
Offline (Male) Goombert
Reply #8 Posted on: January 22, 2014, 04:46:46 PM

Developer
Location: Cappuccino, CA
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2993

View Profile
A couple of things, first, LGM is not ENIGMA, it is a separate project founded and lead by IsmAvatar, which ENIGMA just happens to use.

Quote
In my opinion I would put new platforms at #3 or even #4.
File conversion is currently the main selling point of LGM, it is what most people want to use it for, as I said in another post, I've had the unpleasant experience of people showing up using LGM to convert a GMX file, and then telling me to fuck off about the engine, and then leaving.

There are multiple IDE projects, the developers here may or may not be affiliated with them, but it is important to note they are not the ENIGMA project, the ENIGMA project is nothing more than a compiler and engine. Criticism of any IDE project, is not to be given to ENIGMA, and is off-topic, thus why none of the poll options are related to LGM, at least not directly.
Logged
I think it was Leonardo da Vinci who once said something along the lines of "If you build the robots, they will make games." or something to that effect.

Pages: 1
  Print