Pages: 1
  Print  
Author Topic: Minimap in editor? Noob question  (Read 2637 times)
Offline (Male) Facet
Posted on: October 25, 2013, 02:25:19 PM

Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 17

View Profile Email
Hi

Enimgma and LateralGM editor looks very promising, but I can't find minimap in room view. I can't just find this option or here not minimap? Here what I mean, from known tool:



This is must be for me, I can't imagine how to work on larger rooms without it. I'm new in Enigma, so probably I just missed it - please help!  ::)
Logged
Offline (Unknown gender) TheExDeus
Reply #1 Posted on: October 25, 2013, 02:33:24 PM

Developer
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1872

View Profile
I don't think we have a minimap. It probably ain't that hard to make. But the only one who does any Java development now is Robert, and he does a lot of many other things as well. So I doubt he will have time to implement it now. You can zoom in and out in the room editor though.
Logged
Offline (Male) Facet
Reply #2 Posted on: October 25, 2013, 02:42:40 PM

Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 17

View Profile Email
zoom and scroll - I know it, but this is very slow way if you want to navigate on big room fast. This is realy stopping thing, if here is no minimap.

Also I see, I can't change angle of object on room. I know, I can changie it by code and I'm doing it (for example random tree size and angle), but sometimes I just want to rotate something on room.

I think, things like this are very important in visual tools like this. Everything can be done in code ofc, but why we need editor then?
Logged
Offline (Unknown gender) TheExDeus
Reply #3 Posted on: October 25, 2013, 03:59:39 PM

Developer
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1872

View Profile
Quote
I just want to rotate something on room.
I don't think that is possible in GM either. This was something proposed previously, but I think no one tried to implement it yet. Problems with things like this is that it will certainly break compatibility, as gmk's cannot save information like this. Right now you can assign code to instances in the room, so in "creation code" just type "image_angle = 90" and if the object doesn't have a draw event, then it will rotate. You will not see it in the room editor though. On the other hand this could work as "creation code" with "image_angle" being set automatically and then it would work with GM as well... something to consider I guess.
Quote
why we need editor
I also don't know. I never use it.
Logged
Offline (Male) Facet
Reply #4 Posted on: October 25, 2013, 04:32:44 PM

Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 17

View Profile Email
I know, here can be compatibility problem, that's right. But option like this is just usefull and making any creations faster just. Here from studio version:



Well, you are not using editor. Good, I was sure, whole Game Maker system is more for people want to create simple things faster, when possible in editor. I'm making maps in hammer and of course is possible to do it without editor, but for what?

As I said, I'm rotating with code objects, just sometimes for small changes few clicks is much better/faster than few lines of code.
Logged
Offline (Unknown gender) TheExDeus
Reply #5 Posted on: October 25, 2013, 04:54:37 PM

Developer
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1872

View Profile
I never used GM:S, so I don't know about some features. If it has rotation, scaling, alpha and color settable via the room editor, then I guess we can have that too.

edit: For potential future implementers of this feature I recommend looking on how GM:S saves this (Robert should have input on that as he documented their new file format) and implement this feature via the creation code as I mentioned previously.
Like if you set rotation=45, alpha=0.25 and yscale=2, then it will just create this code and append it to creation code added by the user for the instance:
Code: [Select]
image_angle = 45;
image_alpha=0.25;
image_yscale=2;

//User added custom creation code goes here
This seems like the easiest way that wouldn't require any large code changes (I think we support creation code now).
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 04:59:19 PM by TheExDeus » Logged
Offline (Male) Facet
Reply #6 Posted on: October 25, 2013, 05:55:09 PM

Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 17

View Profile Email
Thank you for fast reply.

I'm watching as user and for things I need. When I can work faster - it's always better. I know, it need more in file, but this is not my problem. Placing objects/tiles with code is ok when room is not so big, but on real big rooms/maps it need good editor. As example with hammer or any other 3d editor. I can do it in N++ what I love, but much better is do it in Hammer. If people spending too much time on coding or solving banal problems, it's always bad for game, because they should think more about gameplay instead. Imo :)

I have fingers crossed for your project, but firstly I'm looking for tool to make game faster. Otherwise I can work in code just, maybe in other language. For now, I'm still looking for 2d framework, engine that fits best my needs. I need to do simple 2d game but it not means small, so I don't want to change tools in half way or work slow.
Logged
Offline (Male) Goombert
Reply #7 Posted on: October 25, 2013, 07:09:46 PM

Developer
Location: Cappuccino, CA
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3110

View Profile
Facet, hello.

Yes the minimap I have not added because I have not had time, also it is pretty bloated. I wanted to try a complete redesign of the room editor like I did with the sprite and background editors to give something new, Studio's is bloated and really slow. I am not exactly sure about a minimap in Java anyway, because the graphics on LGM's room editor are not hardware accelerated and it may get rather slow. This is why the IDE is being rewritten in C++, I was planning a mix between a 3D and 2D room editor that can easily switch perspectives, I am not at that point yet however. Here is a picture of LGM's rewrite...

Edit:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/idol99sf2z7ao1v/radialgmwindus.png
« Last Edit: October 25, 2013, 08:07:21 PM by Robert B Colton » Logged
I think it was Leonardo da Vinci who once said something along the lines of "If you build the robots, they will make games." or something to that effect.

Offline (Male) Facet
Reply #8 Posted on: October 25, 2013, 07:27:40 PM

Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 17

View Profile Email
Hello Robert :)

So, IDE will be in C++? Sounds nice - great, because now is so slow. I'm avoiding java apps on my PC when I can, I understand, it's universal, but always slower than other tools in C or any other native language.

I see, you want this tool universal, for 2d and 3d games. My opinion this is not needed. Here aleready a lot of very good engines for 3d, but any good for 2d. And 3d need much more than game maker can do for now. I mean optimisation and animation. I'm sure, pepole are looking for something easy and fast for 2d games. I love Construct 2. I created my game "prototype"- like in maybe 2 days. This is very user friendly tool. Not big deal, but my player can easy move, shot, reload etc. And some enemies here. No real game, just my test. Here one of early versions, other I have locally. http://denarek.com/gg/ R for reload

But for my needs, html5 is not enough. I need more enemies and a bit smatrer than js can give me.

But 3d in this environment? This is good challenge, but I'm sure users need good and easy in use 2d engine more. More skilled in coding users will be do games in C++ with some frameworks.

Logged
Offline (Male) Goombert
Reply #9 Posted on: October 25, 2013, 08:11:46 PM

Developer
Location: Cappuccino, CA
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3110

View Profile
The reason is back in 2007 when the project started Java was the only real solution to have a cross platform IDE, now we have the Qt framework.

Quote
I mean optimisation and animation.
It is not that difficult, and I am talking about making intuitive tools, Studio is not one, like I said I want to come up with a  completely redesign room editor that doesn't look nearly as bad. And also it is possible that we could branch it off into it's own program called ENIGMA 3D or something.

Quote
in use 2d engine more.
Right, that is why I am focusing on the stability of the engine first, but not every 2D game is strictly two dimensional, there is pseudo 3D and isometric graphics.

Quote
More skilled in coding users will be do games in C++ with some frameworks.
That is what ENIGMA already does actually, it just parses your game and outputs C++ and links our game engine to it. Pretty simple actually.
Logged
I think it was Leonardo da Vinci who once said something along the lines of "If you build the robots, they will make games." or something to that effect.

Offline (Male) Facet
Reply #10 Posted on: October 25, 2013, 08:36:48 PM

Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 17

View Profile Email
You guys do great job, no doubt. I'm realy impressed!

I'm not against 3d of course! Just I know problems for example Source engine, how hard is do good 3d engine with physic etc. It need ready optimisation solutions, I know, everything is to do, even good LOD system. I saw thread with your 3D Mario, is nice. I'm sure problem with fps drop when heigh is not in bad code (engine or game) but here no optimisation solutions for 3d just, like a visleaves system or LOD just for example.

For now, as I said, I'm looking for good 2d tool. I'm ok in 3d (mapping),  and I know how much work it need for good models and other assets, so 2d is my selection now.

I found Game Maker and now Enigma, because I believe, that in XXI century can be good to make nice 2d games. Here not so much things is needed, just character/car steering, some loot system etc. But now I see on GM forum, everybody must do same things on start, like a mouse aiming, moving in physic world, mouse rotating etc. And everybody doing it again and again, where others did it already. Can't be here ready to use control/piece of code just for tweak? :)

I like coding just as hobby. This is just funny and challenging. But sometimes I want just to use ready solutions, many reasons.

Back to IDE, I think it is very important too, I have my own whish list if you are interested in :)

Logged
Offline (Male) Goombert
Reply #11 Posted on: October 26, 2013, 01:55:39 AM

Developer
Location: Cappuccino, CA
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3110

View Profile
Quote
I'm realy impressed!
Heh, how kind of you.

Quote
I'm not against 3d of course!
Surely.

Quote
I saw thread with your 3D Mario, is nice.
I made that in Game Maker 8.1, one of my tasks in the next few weeks is to get it finally ported.

Quote
like a visleaves system or LOD just for example.
I understand that but our graphics are also programmed a lot more efficiently than Studio, and exceedingly better than 8.1, also why we have shader programs. Tessellation shaders are still relatively new, and a LOD would not be that hard.

Quote
I'm looking for good 2d tool.
Don't worry, that is what we intend to be. But you are kind of missing the point, Unity3D developers are now making Unity2D, we could do the same, in fact, I have been contemplating it for a while, ENIGMA 3D.

Quote
Can't be here ready to use control/piece of code just for tweak?
I don't want to get into to detail, but when Josh finishes college and then does the EDC and gets that compiler done, were planning some sort of asset store like Unity has.

Quote
This is just funny and challenging
Right, this is exactly why we created our program free and open source, so you share the same ideals we do.

Quote
I have my own whish list if you are interested in
Lol, just hold off on that for a while, I've got lots to do such as ensuring the stability of the current program, and there is a new LateralGM that will be released in a week or so.  (Y)

Also, here is that picture I failed to link earlier.
http://oi44.tinypic.com/j8fmn6.jpg
« Last Edit: October 26, 2013, 01:57:22 AM by Robert B Colton » Logged
I think it was Leonardo da Vinci who once said something along the lines of "If you build the robots, they will make games." or something to that effect.

Offline (Male) Facet
Reply #12 Posted on: October 26, 2013, 09:56:31 AM

Member
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 17

View Profile Email
I saw this screenshot already, in new tab. Very good.

About Unity. Some tools are good for me and for some users, some just not so much. With unity for example is for me same problem as with Gimp or Blender. I have any problems with photoshop or many other 3d programs, but even just can't work fast in gimp or blender. Here is different philosophy and not so much people like it. It's why people still buying or pirating photoshop or some 3d software, where gimp and blender is free. Here of course more reasons, but I hope you got what I mean. Even with my bad English, sorry :)

And this is one of reason why I'm starting with Game Maker/Enigma. For me, it's just more user friendly than many other tools like this. I hope it will develop in same way.

And back to my wish list, I'll stop for a while, but....
  • minimap
  • object manipulation as I described before, in editor
  • layers based on depth - this is not bad done in Construct 2, is free

Have a nice day!
Logged
Offline (Male) Goombert
Reply #13 Posted on: October 26, 2013, 07:59:48 PM

Developer
Location: Cappuccino, CA
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 3110

View Profile
Quote
I saw this screenshot already, in new tab. Very good.
Yes, just a lot of work to be done that is all.

Quote
I hope it will develop in same way.
Don't worry, that is our intention :)

Quote
And back to my wish list, I'll stop for a while, but....
All of those can and will be done, only when a proper design is fleshed out. Not only about 3D, but as far as 2D goes, Studio's room editor is a mess, even the current one we have, the way it was originally thought up is just a huge mess. It needs a complete redesign which is something I plan to do.
Logged
I think it was Leonardo da Vinci who once said something along the lines of "If you build the robots, they will make games." or something to that effect.

Pages: 1
  Print