Pages: « 1 2 3 »
  Print  
Author Topic: Why does it look like nothing's happening?  (Read 11159 times)
Offline (Unknown gender) TheExDeus
Reply #15 Posted on: March 06, 2012, 05:33:42 AM

Developer
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1886

View Profile
*shrug* We don't get paid enough.

Hey Josh, what do you think about increasing product price by, say, 10% to facilitate communication training, policies, and organization?
Sounds good. I will do the math: 0*1.1=0.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 05:37:18 AM by HaRRiKiRi » Logged
Offline (Male) Josh @ Dreamland
Reply #16 Posted on: March 06, 2012, 04:58:50 PM

Prince of all Goldfish
Developer
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2958

View Profile Email
All right, cheeseboy, you've actually succeeded in pissing me off. Here are some bullet points you may have missed:
  • You are not entitled to my help. While you may expect me, as the coordinator of this project, to maintain it, I am in no way obligated to do so, even if it seems "logical" that I do. I could drop this project and all of you on your respective asses at any time.
  • I have not brought anything upon myself. You are also not entitled to the use of any of these communication systems. As a proponent of free speech, I let you speak on the forums and, until it becomes a distraction, on the IRC. I could without any repercussion ban you from either of these.
  • If the parser Rusky wrote over the course of that month were enough to power ENIGMA, he would either have his own ENIGMA or I'd have ran with it.

Fortunately for this project, neither I nor Ism have decided to leave it. In the event that either of us did, this project would crumble. While it is possible that someone new would rummage through the code in the project and run with the volumes of mundane GML functions implemented under SHELL/, no one in their right mind would run with the existing parser configuration as it is too deeply torn between GML and C++. This includes myself; ergo, I am recoding the parser to my specifications. Not as a GML lexer with LLVM code generation.

If you have a problem with this, feel free to leave.

As for the rest of you, understand that your comments are welcome, including constructive criticism. If in doubt on what constitutes constructive criticism, study the differences between your comments and the last several posts cheeseboy made. If you see a difference, it's probably constructive. Or written in English.

I should also point out that this is not my first year at a university. I was a full time college student in High School, but I brought ENIGMA to where it was back in 2010 (when I graduated) anyway. I am now a senior in college, even though it's just the start of my second year. Actually, I'm two credit hours shy of being a senior, but... I graduate in about a year.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 10:27:18 PM by Josh @ Dreamland » Logged
"That is the single most cryptic piece of code I have ever seen." -Master PobbleWobble
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -Evelyn Beatrice Hall, Friends of Voltaire
Post made March 07, 2012, 04:09:16 AM was deleted at the author's request.
Offline (Unknown gender) TheExDeus
Reply #18 Posted on: March 07, 2012, 06:55:12 AM

Developer
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1886

View Profile
Sooo when is the new parser comming? :P Just kidding. You shouldn't take Cheeseboy seriously as I have always been certain that he is a troll. Also, he works in McDonalds as far as I know so his technical input should be void.

Also, I actually found out fundies forked the enigma-dev to fix windows like more than a month ago (I didn't see that because of innavigatable GIT), so how is that going? Did you fix it? And if you did then can you merge back? Because Ism said that I should fork, add all the functions, then merge (which I can't do I think), but if I can't run it on windows then I don't know if the functions will break anything. It doesn't on my ENIGMA, but its the last from SVN, which is a while ago.
Logged
Offline (Male) Josh @ Dreamland
Reply #19 Posted on: March 07, 2012, 07:34:50 AM

Prince of all Goldfish
Developer
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2958

View Profile Email
Fundies is cheeseboy. It's possible he got it working on Windows, but I think his goal was to fix Linux. Rusky broke all platforms when he went on his deleting spree.

Windows would probably work if you checked out the SVN, then checked out the Git overtop it.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 07:37:18 AM by Josh @ Dreamland » Logged
"That is the single most cryptic piece of code I have ever seen." -Master PobbleWobble
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -Evelyn Beatrice Hall, Friends of Voltaire
Offline (Unknown gender) luiscubal
Reply #20 Posted on: March 07, 2012, 01:08:40 PM
Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 452

View Profile Email
"deleting spree". Doesn't git(and SVN, for that matter) keep a history that pretty much makes this sort of thing fixable in less than 5 minutes?

Couldn't you just go pick the previous versions of the deleted files on git (or your old SVN, if Rusky somehow broke git that badly), then add the missing files back to git so people who checked out git directly would have a working copy?
Logged
Offline (Unknown gender) Game_boy
Reply #21 Posted on: March 07, 2012, 01:18:04 PM
Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 228

View Profile
While being as aggressive as cheeseboy is pointless (the devs are mostly working on this for themselves rather than to an end goal), have you considered scaling back your aspirations? That is, not making something infinitely flexible or completely modular, and just focus on delivering, say, a 90% clone of GM6 by some not too distant time in the future.

The exposure you get from delivering a working product people can install and see the benefit of will fix manpower issues.

Do you yourselves still believe you can create something similarly functional to GM before GM catches up completely on speed and platform support? (Obviously you are free so leaving a lot of extraneous functions and features out would be understandable).

(Been following this project since it was posted on 64digits like 5 years ago, in that time all that has happened is a huge GM price increase)
Logged
Offline (Male) cheeseboy
Reply #22 Posted on: March 07, 2012, 04:17:47 PM

Member
Location: The internet
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 107

View Profile
For anyone intrested in running enigma on windows. dl.dropbox.com/u/26289275/enigma.7z Unzip that run git-bash and "cd enigma-dev/". you should then be able to run "git pull" to update and "java -jar lgm16b4.jar" to launch enigma. That zip includes everything needed to run enigma on windows and a few things that proably aren't needed. Also note openal is currently broke so before compiling a game be sure to select audio system none.
Logged
Post made March 07, 2012, 04:36:38 PM was deleted at the author's request.
Offline (Male) Josh @ Dreamland
Reply #24 Posted on: March 07, 2012, 05:27:21 PM

Prince of all Goldfish
Developer
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2958

View Profile Email
Quote
Do you yourselves still believe you can create something similarly functional to GM before GM catches up completely on speed and platform support? (Obviously you are free so leaving a lot of extraneous functions and features out would be understandable).

Yep. By throwing out the interpreter, Dailly has made room for serious optimizations, but judging by the fact that his C++ runner promise has been around for as long as ENIGMA, I'm going to call bluff or similar on his LLVM promise. If they switched to LLVM, we might be hurt. I'm thinking we have about 6-8 millennia before that happens. As far as platform support goes, they've basically already caught up since ENIGMA's Android support only works on every third Tuesday of the month.

At this point, being free is an advantage. But I don't have any personal interest in this project if that's the only advantage. At this point, I'm looking for capability in more aspects than just speed.

Oh, and Luis- If I wanted, I could recommit them. The issue is that I'm afraid he's right; some of those files just shouldn't be in the repository. We ought instead to include them with releases as needed. The issue is creating a release mechanism around git.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 05:48:18 PM by Josh @ Dreamland » Logged
"That is the single most cryptic piece of code I have ever seen." -Master PobbleWobble
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -Evelyn Beatrice Hall, Friends of Voltaire
Offline (Unknown gender) TheExDeus
Reply #25 Posted on: March 07, 2012, 06:24:30 PM

Developer
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1886

View Profile
Quote
90% clone of GM6 by some not too distant time in the future.
I believe ENIGMA already can do 90% (or even more) of what GM can. Function wise there is everything you need. The problem is just that you can't really "make" the exe, thus you can't distribute it, and so you can't use ENIGMA to actually create commercial or freeware games. On the other hand I have created a lot of cool things starting with games, screensavers and ending with music mixing programs in ENIGMA. And as I have implemented all of the surface functionality (but not committed as I can't), then ENIGMA has everything short of pixel and vertex shaders to create some really beautiful games. Some of the graphical eye candy I posted on IRC was this:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21117924/god_rays.exe
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21117924/reflection_demo.exe
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21117924/ball_reflect.exe (this has some flickering problems because of some d3d_model bug, but you can still see the cool dynamic reflection on the ball. You can grab the ball with left mouse, toggle interpolation with control, change background with B).
Logged
Offline (Female) IsmAvatar
Reply #26 Posted on: March 07, 2012, 10:23:46 PM

LateralGM Developer
LGM Developer
Location: Pennsylvania/USA
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 886

View Profile Email
Quote
If I wanted, I could recommit them. The issue is that I'm afraid he's right; some of those files just shouldn't be in the repository. We ought instead to include them with releases as needed. The issue is creating a release mechanism around git.
This is my stance as well. I think it sums up the problem pretty nicely.

Also, to clarify, Rusky didn't just delete the files. He deleted the history of the files. In essense, he made it so they never existed on the git repository. The reason is because, when you clone (svn "check out") a repository, you are fetching the entire history of the repository. You can delete a file, and that's all well and good, but a phantom of the file is still there, so that you can roll back to it. As a result, these phantoms make the repository larger, and when you're dealing with binaries, like jars, every time that file changes, the entire binary is re-added to the repository, since you can't just do a simple `diff` like on text files. As such, histories of binaries causes repositories to quickly bloat to a size somewhat similar to Josh.
Instead, binaries like LateralGM, which have their own histories, and don't need an additional binary history, are not included in binary form. Instead, they have their own source repository. As for how they are distributed to team members, that requires some decision - either they can be downloaded in binary form, or built from source - and this is really just a team decision: in what way can I best facilitate my team?
As for releases, we just build all the sources that we can, clump the binaries together, and distribute it. Not a big deal. The only question that remains then is how to distribute updates.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 10:33:28 PM by IsmAvatar » Logged
Offline (Male) RetroX
Reply #27 Posted on: March 08, 2012, 11:17:47 PM

Master of all things Linux
Contributor
Location: US
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1055
MSN Messenger - classixretrox@gmail.com
View Profile Email
For the record, git apparently does have binary diffs, but compiled code is usually different enough that you might as well be dumping the entire file there. Dumping small things like images is okay, but dumping entire JARs is really what we want to avoid.

LGM and the like should be compiled from the repositories and zipped and uploaded somewhere on the site. I don't see what's wrong with wgetting them from a makefile.
Logged
My Box: Phenom II 3.4GHz X4 | ASUS ATI RadeonHD 5770, 1GB GDDR5 RAM | 1x4GB DDR3 SRAM | Arch Linux, x86_64 (Cube) / Windows 7 x64 (Blob)
Quote from: Fede-lasse
Why do all the pro-Microsoft people have troll avatars? :(
Offline (Female) IsmAvatar
Reply #28 Posted on: March 09, 2012, 01:46:30 AM

LateralGM Developer
LGM Developer
Location: Pennsylvania/USA
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 886

View Profile Email
We're pretty much all in agreement with regards to the jars. I'm not sure about wgetting them from the makefile though - it's not that simple. The jars update occasionally - maybe once every 5-10 revisions. This means that we might not want to fetch them every time the user invokes make, because that would add an additional download time that usually just results in the same jars. We obviously don't want to do it as a 1-time thing because sometimes the updates are critical. We'd probably want some sort of intermediary to determine if the jars should be updated. Fetch some small information that determines the latest version, and compares it to the user's current version.
Logged
Offline (Unknown gender) TheExDeus
Reply #29 Posted on: March 09, 2012, 07:42:57 AM

Developer
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1886

View Profile
Well binaries are no longer a problem. For windows I also think I will be able to compile the ENIGMA.exe, and the .dll. LGM can be downloaded from Ism who should put links to newest LGM available (the link on the wiki seems good for that).

Now the problem is that ENIGMA doesn't actually work. Not because of binaries but because of everything else. Someone should fix that.
Logged
Pages: « 1 2 3 »
  Print