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Author Topic: Parsers -- A novel by Josh @ Dreamland  (Read 7481 times)
Offline (Male) notachair
Reply #30 Posted on: August 26, 2009, 12:30:44 AM

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That's why I kept out of the fight :v:
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Offline (Unknown gender) score_under
Reply #31 Posted on: August 26, 2009, 10:19:47 AM

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If what I just explained wasn't your point
But I'm saying that that doesn't apply to Josh's parser
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Offline (Unknown gender) Micah
Reply #32 Posted on: August 26, 2009, 06:43:19 PM

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Well, it didn't.
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Offline (Male) Rusky
Reply #33 Posted on: August 26, 2009, 08:56:28 PM

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Innovation is great. That's what RetroX was saying.
Josh is innovating, but his innovation only applies to this precise situation.
Josh's method cannot be used for anything but this situation- converting to a similar, more strict syntax.
It's not like the florescent lightbulb innovation, or the LCD screen innovation, which are applicable in pretty much every situation.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2009, 08:58:10 PM by Rusky » Logged
Offline (Male) RetroX
Reply #34 Posted on: August 27, 2009, 03:01:05 PM

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Now that I finally understand what you're trying to say, you're right.  He is not innovating, but rather, making a more specialized parser to fit ENIGMA's needs.  It's not going to be used for anything outside ENIGMA, so therefore, it is best to be optimized for this situation.

EDIT: Also, completely unrelated thing...
Well, remember what you said about linux registries?  Well, turns out all three major desktops have configuration registries.  GNOME has GConf, Xfce has XConf, and KDE has KConfig.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2009, 03:06:01 PM by RetroX » Logged
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Offline (Male) Rusky
Reply #35 Posted on: August 27, 2009, 05:57:30 PM

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What did I say about linux registries? Or do you mean someone else? I know (maybe I didn't when I said whatever it was you're talking about) about those, but usually only programs specific to those systems use them... apache, mysql, etc. don't use them afaik.
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Offline (Unknown gender) score_under
Reply #36 Posted on: August 28, 2009, 01:10:41 PM

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EDIT: Also, completely unrelated thing...
Well, remember what you said about linux registries?  Well, turns out all three major desktops have configuration registries.  GNOME has GConf, Xfce has XConf, and KDE has KConfig.
Whoever said that probably meant that there is no "built-in" registry, so to speak - with Windows, it is unavoidable to have the registry on your computer, while with GConf, XConf, and KConfig, you have to write code for one of the 3 and hope that your user has GNOME/XFCE/KDE installed - in Windows, like it or not, the registry is a much more uniform beast.
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Offline (Male) RetroX
Reply #37 Posted on: August 28, 2009, 09:33:50 PM

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The registry is part of the effing filesystem in Windows.  At least Win7 and Vista updated NTFS so registry was an option of the filesystem, whereas in XP/2k it was hidden.

In Linux, those three are the most common ones (and to be entirely honest, even if someone has something else, they'll probably not want to be running ENIGMA, anyways, since it'll most likely be an ancient computer running puppy or something).
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Offline (Male) KaBob799
Reply #38 Posted on: August 29, 2009, 03:46:55 AM

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Josh is innovating, but his innovation only applies to this precise situation.
Not every innovation needs to be useful for everyone, as long as its useful for what it was designed for (aka, the precise situation)

Is this whole topic really just an argument saying that the parser should be rewritten so that it is able to do stuff it doesnt need to do?
« Last Edit: August 29, 2009, 03:51:23 AM by KaBob799 » Logged
Offline (Unknown gender) Micah
Reply #39 Posted on: August 29, 2009, 09:31:29 AM

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The reason we were wanting Josh to write the parser with a generator like yacc was that it is much faster and easier to write, easier to debug, less hard-coded and therefore easier to understand and change, and it uses a much more flexible and proven method.

The reason Rusky and RetroX were arguing was that RetroX was being silly and thinking Josh's parser was a brilliant new way to do things, like a fluorescent lightbulb, when it's really the kind of parser someone would write when they haven't studied parsers. So of course it could work and probably will, pretty well, but it's not the best way to do things.
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Offline (Male) RetroX
Reply #40 Posted on: August 29, 2009, 10:01:38 AM

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The reason Rusky and RetroX were arguing was that RetroX was being silly and thinking Josh's parser was a brilliant new way to do things, like a fluorescent lightbulb, when it's really the kind of parser someone would write when they haven't studied parsers. So of course it could work and probably will, pretty well, but it's not the best way to do things.
No, it was because Rusky was arguing seemingly like he had no idea what he was talking about, and was quick to "you're wrong, just because I'm right".  I actually have Josh on MSN, and I do happen to know what's going on.  I'm not an idiot, as I hope you should realize.  I just didn't understand what he was trying to argue, so I was providing the wrong argument in return.  Now, the argument is hopefully settled.  And Josh was in that argument, too, if you actually read it.
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Offline (Male) Josh @ Dreamland
Reply #41 Posted on: August 29, 2009, 10:20:26 AM

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They're basically telling me that it'd be easier for me to use someone else's method, because mine's too hard for me to debug and understand.

Plus, if I use Yacc, other projects can make off with even more easily modifiable pieces of ENIGMA.
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Offline (Unknown gender) Micah
Reply #42 Posted on: August 29, 2009, 10:31:54 AM

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Quote from: josh
Plus, if I use Yacc, other projects can make off with even more easily modifiable pieces of ENIGMA.
Wait, what? Why are you releasing under the GPL if you don't want other projects to be able to use pieces of ENIGMA? Just release under another license instead of purposely making your code unreadable. Instead of hurting your own ability to program ENIGMA as well as you could, you could just get at the root of the problem.

Wow.
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Offline (Male) RetroX
Reply #43 Posted on: August 29, 2009, 10:44:34 AM

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Quote from: josh
Plus, if I use Yacc, other projects can make off with even more easily modifiable pieces of ENIGMA.
Wait, what? Why are you releasing under the GPL if you don't want other projects to be able to use pieces of ENIGMA? Just release under another license instead of purposely making your code unreadable. Instead of hurting your own ability to program ENIGMA as well as you could, you could just get at the root of the problem.

Wow.
More like, they think that, but Josh is perfectly fine with making his code the way he is.  It works, and if people choose to modify the parser, they can, but they likely won't.  The GPL is more for ENIGMA's main functions, not the parser.  It's a good practice to give out the source for free software.  Otherwise, you're just an ass.  And besides, you have to give out the source with the way ENIGMA is set up right now.
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Offline (Male) Josh @ Dreamland
Reply #44 Posted on: August 29, 2009, 10:53:18 AM

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It's not purposely illegible. This one's at least twice as legible as last time.

It's GPL so people can learn from my method, not make off with a syntax file.

And I'm hurting no one. I understand every last aspect of my parser, and modifying it is a breeze for me. I don't care about anyone else's modifying it; no one else develops it.

Besides, it makes me cringe every time a certain SOMEONE makes off with an entire CPP file. Especially when that someone asks me why the Windows one won't compile for Linux.
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