TKG - found another oddity also. Probably to do with playing around with the windows. But, have you noticed this?

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window_set_caption() won't override the free advertising either (like it does in newly created projects).

Are you actually working for YYG? 

I would actually not be surprised LOL!

Not even close ! because unlike other companies that rip people off, I'm sure ENIGMA would have been competitively priced, with customers in mind not the bank in mind like another company

One thing for sure, it would have probably been the most affordable, most feature rich development tool around, that would surely compete against another product I have in mind

it would have paid developers, staffed, supported, continually updated, not rely on outside contributors, etc.

Unfortunately ENIGMA relies heavily on contributors, and it's not only the will, but the knowledge of C++ and JAVA, graphics and sound programming.

"Not even close ! "

ENIGMA would work if it was closed source - LOL

Isn't that a bit far fetched ? I mean ENIGMA works....The reason it might not have worked out as some people expect is because of that THICK bloody umbilical cord tied to GM's knob.....ALSO if ENIGMA was closed source, it would not be called ENIGMA......lol!

Darkstar2 that's because you are confusing me with someone else, it was probably me being really negative. I don't specifically recall any particular instance of somebody being upset and leaving.

This is off-topic, so I will PM you something Robert as I don't want to post the link here and derail. 

Law is pretty screwy though. I remember a case in over here in Australia years ago. This is what happend;

A burgular broke in to someones home by smashing a window. When he climbed through the window he became severly injured. He later sued the owner of the house for sustaining an injury from the broken glass. The burgular was awarded hundreds of thousands of dollars.

There was another one recently which was even more stupid. But, I'll save that story for another day

lol ! Things like this happen in the UK and North America.   but your example is very poor as it is NOT the same thing. In this case the burglar got injured, you were sued for his injury not for him robbing your home   Regarding ENIGMA, or your plugins on GMS, don't worry about that......whatever a person does illegally with your plugin THEY are liable, not you, and no, the buyer won't sue you claiming your plugin was too addictive to resist ......... lol.  (Sorry couldn't resist!)

Anyhow you get the drift.  Look, there are millions of users on the planet violating licences and infringing on a daily basis......How many of those get actually sued ?  OF those caught, how many get sued?
Most people get notices.  Again, you as a seller on market place are bound by the terms set forth by YoYoGames......your terms are between you and YYG, and your own terms are between you and the buyer....Whatever the buyer violates is HIS violation NOT yours.  Can you imagine the implication if what you claim were true ? it would mean some very serious implication then, then it would be better to shut down ANY file hosting, content provider, file hosts, social media, Market Place, heck shut down the internet

Don't have nightmares about this tonite - as a content provider and seller, you SHOULD eventually expect piracy, violations, abuse, etc, and you said to me yourself you know this, so this is part of being a seller and dealing with public.......or being a site owner.
Cheers Once you made 10 million $ and get sued by ENIGMA or whomever, then worry then...... I too was worried about this back in the days but I realised, what are the odds that I will make enough money

cheeseboy is fundies

There may have been someone doing that but they were probably never a regular here anyway.

Oh ok, I sure had a different impression when I joined, I recall some devs bashing the projects and some people saying it was hopeless, etc and they left .....oh well......though some of "fundies" posts were quite entertaining

Many left because of disagreements with the project and others, or could not care less or for other reasons, you can't assume they are dead

Actually, noone has left because of disagreements. IsmAvatar left, but didn't really, because she has work. Polygonz left because he has a girlfriend or w/e and he still stops in. fundies left because he's bored and thinks he knows C++ now. I can't think of any contributor that left because of a disagreement of dispute. A2h left because he had other things to do, he came back a while ago and Josh discussed his new website design. Rusky is back after a year in moron church service.

What about cheesesnob ? I seem to recall people bashing the ENIGMA project and leaving......

No. When this hypothetical person links your proprietary DLL with ENIGMA, that doesn't mean you're violating the license. How could you possibly believe that you are? You aren't even distributing ENIGMA. The hypothetical person is. They are the one in violation of the GNU GPL.

That's what I've been telling him.  If you run a shop and someone comes in your store and steals your shite are you, the store owner going to be accused of a crime ? Same thing.  If that were the case then there would be a big problem and a lot of people would end up sued

Aren't half of the developers either AWOL or dead now? 

This whole topic seems a nightmare. I am sorry I posted it - LOL.

Many left because of disagreements with the project and others, or could not care less or for other reasons, you can't assume they are dead

don't  feel sorry for posting, you bring lively topics to this forum,   at least we are talking about important stuff on the future of ENIGMA so what can be better.  Just be patient and wait to see what actual developers have to say about this.

Your best bet is to wait to hear from the developers of ENIGMA themselves.

2) Or chance it and worse case be warned to take down your plugins and stop distributing them...... For the reasons stated to you i'd take option #2.  Besides, as I explained, even you are bound by open source, nothing prevents you to SELL your plugin.  Look what they did with FlightGear, an open sourced flight sim, some people took it, slightly modded it and called it FlightSimPro and sell it on ClickBank.......Nothing prevents you from making a profit from your plugin or ENIGMA made game.......Someone might distribute your plugin mod it etc, but think of it this way, nothing prevents you from doing the same and taking someone's plugin, modding it and selling it.......This is what I was told ages ago, am I right devs? So a shitty situation can be turned into a win-win-win in the end......it all comes down to whether you are willing or not to contribute to an open source project, with its pros and cons.    The same way nothing prevents anybody from competing with you in the market place and releasing a video engine similar to yours, FREE.....it is their right.......but then you make one better and sell it...... and you take the SAME opportunity and right that is available to you, given your skill and smarts you should have no problem with this.......For less experienced devs, that might be more frustrating .

It's very likely you would be told to do as you please that they don't care, perhaps you should go at the source higher up, responsible for drafting the license used by ENIGMA.

OR you can contribute to ENIGMA as an open source project, like other people do.

Though I can see why some people would want to develop certain plugins as closed source....There are certain things that I would too...... If they refuse such an opportunity then they should not wonder why it's hard to find contributors to ENIGMA and what pushes people away.......is it the community or is it the bloody licence that most people don't like (I could come up with several more links with negative comments).

Consider this....


ENIGMA is sitting on a goldmine here!

shhhhhhhhh!  don't give them any ideas 

#1) Keep selling your stuff on the market and don't worry about it.  You are not violating any terms.  If your buyers are, that is their problem they will face the consequences, or they may not even face anything and very unlikely (read my long PM on why).  Just so long as you are not condoning or encouraging or doing it yourself...... Think about it this way, someone can steal your DLL, rig it, maliciously, and re-distribute it under your name on a site......Are you liable for this ?  No.  IS it a pain in the arse, YES........but this is the price you pay for releasing stuff to the public.......It's part of business.

People are violating licences all the time, laws, etc......does it mean everyone gets sued......maybe a fraction, and again read my PM......Unless there is any financial gain or anything that warrants it, you should not worry.....the licence gives the right to the respective authors to exercise their rights, whether they do or look the other way is entirely up to the holder ........

Now what is nonsense to me......You develop 3rd party, and release your plugins INDEPENDANTLY, without the binary of any game.......It is a single or set of closed source files...... A user buys it and decides to use it with compatible software.....I have a hard time understanding that your closed source now becomes open source.....I think there is a big gap and something we are not understanding.

Think of it like all the Adobe Photoshop plugins on the market.....I can use them all inside my PaintShop Pro as PSP supports adobe plugins.......am I breaking any rules?
No.

Would there be room for exceptions if your plugin is EXTERNAL to the engine and EXE compared to if it was linked to the engine and EXE?  If not, then I seriously think this is wrong.

[hey DS2 you pulled your post? Hanging me out to dry you bastard!  ]

LOL I didn't think you'd reply that fast, it's ok lonewolff, I deleted my post because I found links instead that pretty much sums up how some people feel that's why.

And to top it all off, Josh is shit scared that a previous dev might sue him for copyright should they decide to retract their work. Hence, this licence thread Josh has been tearing his hear out about all of these years.

Lone, ENIGMA is the work of many people, many people contributed to the code and different sections.... so anything of the sort that gets done needs consent from all parties involved.... that would go the same for closed source....... I don't know if people would really "SUE", I mean who the bloody hell would make enough money using this product to warrant that, so assuming perhaps the worst that could happen is you'd get a C&D/Take down notice to either comply or retract your infringing plugin/software.  The same way companies don't sue right away and will send you a notice first, most of the time unless there is substantial financial reason or gain.......I would assume that for most people using ENIGMA, it isn't, so I would not worry about lawsuits involving money - but a contributor CAN go after you and ask you to stop distributing your product until you are compliant, and if you continue, it means they have the RIGHT to sue you, does not mean they will, it's up to the developer........Never assume they won't.

I mean WTF?

Scrap ENIGMA start again, and set out your own licence in your own text. I can't see how GPL can stand up in court, seriously...

If it were written on stained toilet paper using spit, it would stand in court.  Because when using said software implies you read the license and agreed to them even if you didn't understand a bloody thing - law does NOT protect ignorance, and your only chance would be to prove any ambiguity but good luck with that.  It's understandable that anything using ENIGMA needs to be made available upon request (source), I understood that, where I have a big issue, and you as well, is closed sourced plugins or products / code I use would automatically be licensed under the same and need to be made available as well.  That is hard to swallow.  So some might ask us why the fuck are we still using ENIGMA ? Because for one, am not planning to retire off ENIGMA and so I don't think I will be sued anytime soon, and I already promised in writing that if I earn $10 million I would donate a dollar to each developer.....LOL.

Has anyone tested it in court? A judge would shake his head and say 'fuck off you geeks!' - LOL

Not so, it is a legal binding document that both parties agreed to.  USING software and developing using said software signifies you agree to the terms   The only hope is for some really good attorney to find loopholes or inconsistency with the license, with a fine comb and invoke ambiguity.  There is legal precedent in the US for cases rejected because of ambiguity claims, even when a contract was involved.

In this case there is a way to ask at the source and get an answer in writing, so ambiguity might not hold.

Oh and the proof's in the pudding:

This sums it up:

http://sealedabstract.com/rants/why-the-gpl-sucks/

http://gnusucks.wordpress.com/

http://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1hcv90/antigpl_sentiment/

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1379692

http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/5935

-------------- and it goes on and on......

So basically you CAN sell whatever you do, you can even sell ENIGMA........which in my opinion would be VERY unfair to the devs ...... and therefore ANY spit that comes out of ENIGMA that you make ALSO has to abide by the same principles, release your source.
Basically this form of license does not protect but encourages theft, infringement and invalidating the hard efforts and work from developers and 3rd party devs.

Maybe we are retarded or something but what the bloody hell good would be for anybody to develop extensions or plugins to ENIGMA ?
I guess this topic is a GOOD reason why ENIGMA needs an exception A.S.A.P covering 3rd party plugins and user developed content/games, etc, whilst protecting ENIGMA's source.

5 Star'd ya!

Please send your money order to Rob now

I fixed your first extension, Rob fixed your second. Do we try the third and fourth ones now

Actually it is TKG himself who fixed it, Robert assisted with the window focusing thing, that was a separate problem, the main problem was the browser not displaying.  You see TKG ? Next time before releasing something on the market, get it tested by as many people as possible, as you can see many people willing to help, and rule of thumb, just because it works on your system does not mean it will on everyone's, especially when you are dealing with plugins/dependencies, etc. It's better to be safe and sure.

First I'll need to ask daddy for money because I'm unemployed, and never had a job (which makes me a loser due to my age)

YYG is hiring....You are in Scotland right ? 

And did it really work? I'm still surprised darkstar because that was literally pure luck I have no idea how I got it working but I guess it is.

Too bad you don't remember what you changed that would have been helpful for future reference and learning experience.
But that won't always happen though, luckily this one story ends well

HECK YEAH!

You mind telling us what you changed for it to work? And I am still very curious to know how the hell it managed to work on your end without the changes and not for anybody else......this is definitely strange, but glad you got it working.