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Topics - Goombert

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Off-Topic / Local School District Drops GameMaker
« on: September 22, 2015, 03:18:50 AM »
A small school in North Carolina has decided to stop using GameMaker: Studio because of its proprietary DRM. The school claims on a number of occasions the program corrupted games developed by students. The school is SkilStak located in Cornelius, North Carolina and is a private school for teaching students 8 to 18 years old computer programming through game design.

From a GitHub repository hosted by one of the school's staff members, we find the following quotes:
Quote from: SkilStak School Staff
I strongly encourage anyone considering GameMaker to look at instead. You learn real technologies that will carry you farther than the proprietary and drag-and-drop GameMaker, (which is now owned by an online video gambling/gaming company). We have dropped GameMaker from all classes at SkilStak after it corrupted a student's game irrecoverably. He was the 6th in 3 years to lose everything because of GameMaker bugs. He would have had to reassemble everything from assets and saved code, which is stored in XML and prone to horrible merge conflicts when combined with GitHub for beginners. Just say no to GameMaker.

We can also find on their related Twitter account:
Quote from: SkilStak Twitter
GameMaker @yoyogames crashed and corrupted student games for the LAST TIME! Game-1 now based on thanks to @photonstorm #html5

Proposals / Editor Enhancement
« on: September 07, 2015, 08:11:23 PM »
So we are all aware of the traditional GM style editors:

We are all very comfortable with this to some degree, you save in the top left etc etc. But there's a problem here.

The tool bar buttons are never aligned with the content being edited. I propose that for LateralGM we move all the side panels on the room editor, path editor, sprite editor, and background editor to the right instead of the left.

With this change all of the toolbar buttons are properly aligned with the content area and requires less mouse dragging to click. What does everyone think about doing this? Since I realized this I've really come to like the idea. An alternative would be to move the toolbar in the content area (but this is gross if we keep it the edit panel on the left because I'm used to save being in the top left of the window). The other alternative is to simple right align the toolbar (though this also moves the save button to where you wouldn't expect it to be). Please let me know what you all think if I don't get enough feedback I may just end up doing this anyway.

The alternative looks like the following. To eliminate the whitespace we could put the save button in the bottom left like it is on the font editor and object editor then move the toolbar into the content area. I don't like this though because I am really used to the save button being in the top left.

As a preference it could also move the tree. The IDE would be either left or right oriented.

Proposals / Google Breakpad
« on: September 02, 2015, 08:56:49 AM »
This is a cool library used in Firefox, Chrome, and Google Earth. It allows you to build an executable with no debugging symbols, the library will generate crash minidumps. The debugging symbols are saved during compilation of the executable though. Later when a crash occurs a separate program can take the minidump and the debug symbols and put them back together again to create a human readable stacktrace. So basically you can build an executable without debug information and still debug it.

I think this would be something really useful to take advantage of in ENIGMA. It would allow our end users to make extremely efficient games but still debug them just as in every GM 8.1 or earlier GameMaker version. It would also give us extremely useful information when users report an ENIGMA crash to us on GitHub as we can cache and store the debug symbols for every release we've made or have them include it with the crash report.

Using it with end user games would be a little trickier though because it means when you release your game you have to hold on to a copy of your debug symbols and properly version your game. However I think I have already thought of a way around this. Since we already make use of zlib to archive the resources, we could also archive the debug symbols file right into the executable. While this would still increase the file size of executables to include the debug symbols the game would not run like shit because the symbols would be separated from the program code.

This would mean that anywhere a game is used it would run just as you would expect but you could also take any crash/minidump log it spits out and feed the executable and the dump file to a debugger to get a human readable stacktrace. We could also achieve GM8.1 and LGM style exception dialogs by just embedding it into every exe or make it an option if the users really care to squeeze out the few extra bytes in file size. Either way I think this could seriously improve the situation regarding debugging in both ENIGMA and its engine and end user games. I'd like to know what everyone thinks.

Developing ENIGMA / Migrate Releases
« on: September 02, 2015, 01:49:20 AM »
I want to propose this since I've been making more use of it in recent projects. When we archived the old LGM versions we stuck them in our dropboxes which is, despite me having created a shared ENIGMA dropbox, still subject to link rot. I never did attempt to migrate our old and new releases to GitHub because I never understood the feature until now.

Basically if we move all of the ENIGMA ZIP's, old LGM jars, and all those old revisions and packages over to the GitHub release pages we get static links.
For example:

Instead of what we have now on the LateralGM: Revisions Wiki page:

Notice how the GitHub version is not subject to link rot? This is by GitHub's own design for the very reason we are intending to use it. Using the GitHub release pages also allows me to archive the change logs in the description. This is important because our forum is also subject to link rot as topics are moved and the forum board evolves, people will still be able to find the change log well into the future (considering GitHub is probably more likely to be around in 10 to 20 years than we are). This also means we don't have to make so much use of third parties like dropbox since setting up proper file transfer to ENIGMA's server would be a lot of work and cumbersome to say the least (which is why we are still struggling to finish the EDC). This also means that every contributor can establish a release if they have appropriate access to the repository.

There are some things that need addressed. Primarily the GitHub release mechanism automatically versions the repository and detects change logs. So if you don't enter a description it automatically detects the changes made to the repository since the last release was made, which we can make more effective use of in the future. This will make our initial migration of the old releases cumbersome though as I'll have to paste all of the change logs there and you'll just have to ignore the one GitHub shows in cases where a change log can't be found (I have them for all of my releases just not LGM 1571), which is not that big of a deal. This also means however that ENIGMA needs to establish version numbering and so do all of the other projects including JEIE, etc etc.

Once this is done however I would update all the appropriate documentation on the Wiki and related links. I would not delete the old revisions archived on our shared dropbox but the Wiki and everything would be updated to reflect the new release process. I also would not delete the old revisions page right away until some point in the future when the links become broken or our shared dropbox has been fragmented.

I would continue to maintain the Extra Packages page for quick links to all of the latest releases. The page would just be updated with the rest of the Wiki.

I've experimented with archiving two old releases of LateralGM on its repository.

I also believe this would reduce the confusion of random people finding LateralGM through Google and not knowing where to download it. The GitHub release mechanism is pretty common and you know people have come to get used to it, myself included. It also makes formatting the change logs nicer by allowing us to use markdown and link to specific tickets instead of by URL like I do now.

I'd like to know what you all think about this, I think this is the way to go and I am looking to do all the footwork to make the change. I'd just like to take some feedback and suggestions on it first.

Also I will need additional privileges to a few repositories such as JEIE to do the releases which I asked IsmAvatar about before but never got a response, hopefully I can get a hold of her.

Edit: Actually it seems like it is possible when drafting the releases to base them on a certain commit, but I don't know how far back we'd have to dig. I could probably dig for all of the releases I made but maybe not the ones for 1.6 and 1.5 as they may not have been migrated from Sourceforge.

Developing ENIGMA / Styleguide
« on: August 31, 2015, 09:00:14 PM »
This was always a huge problem when I began contributing to ENIGMA. Having to format and reformat code constantly. Recently I've taken the practice of using standard style guides for my projects and sticking to them.

I feel ENIGMA and LateralGM have suffered tremendously from the lack of an enforced styleguide. This post is not about tabs vs spaces but about using consistent formatting in both projects.

My personal preference would be the use of a mixture of space and tab indentations which I am conflicted on but have expressed in a 64Digits post:

I've been configuring my code editors to allow me to use a consistent coding style for multiple projects. I was simply reviewing some of ENIGMA's source code and stumbled upon the inconsistencies in formatting, caused by myself and a lot of others. You can see in the following screenshot some of the problems, some lines are indented using tabs and others with 2 or 4 spaces.

This makes it considerably difficult for contributors, including each and everyone one of us, whether we prefer tabs or spaces. The reason is simple and that is the lack of consistency. I would be able to work with either depending on what everyone else would prefer to use. But I think the quality of our code base could be seriously improved through the ratification of a standard coding style for the project with input from everyone. Please let me know what you think.

Developing ENIGMA / Internationalization and Localization
« on: August 24, 2015, 02:46:01 AM »
Just thinking about the troubles LateralGM had maintaining translations. There's a startup project that basically works like git for translations where authors can create translations for a project.

As an example this is the one for the ControlsFX project:

This could be a good idea for the future as it can attract more professional translation services and there are paid versions too.

Third Party / Java 8 Nashorn Script Engine
« on: July 31, 2015, 01:12:40 AM »
For a side project I am developing in Java I needed a good JavaScript parser but the publicly documented Nashorn interface is all about compiling when I only needed an intermediate representation. It is currently possible as of JDK8u40 to use the parser to get the AST as a JSON encoded string either from a JS file being executed by the ScriptEngine or from within Java using the non-public Nashorn API.

An abstract syntax tree is produced by a parser after the lexer phase breaks code into a stream of tokens. The below image should convey to you how a simple assignment statement is broken into a stream of tokens then an AST is generated as JSON on the right. This is why symbols like * + - are called binary operators because they take two operands, ! is the logical negation and an unary operator becaues it takes only one operand. The operands can also be expressions because expressions are defined recursively in terms of expressions which can be literals, terms, or other expressions. This is how we end up with tree's and these tree's coupled with semantic information such as keywords and identifiers help us do code generation which can let the whole process take in one language, say GML, and spit out a completely different one like C++ and if you don't already know this is exactly what ENIGMA's compiler does.

Wikipedia has additional information on abstract syntax trees if you would like to know more.
The following StackOverflow post provides clarification between an AST and a parse tree.

My first example here is the standard example on the web of how you can get the JSON tree for any arbitrary JavaScript parsed by a JS script that is being actively executed in Nashorn. You can take this AST and print it or traverse it in JS or pass/return it up to Java through a binding. This example was taken from the following link.
Code: (Javascript) [Select]
#// Usage: jjs -scripting -fx astviewer.js -- <scriptfile>
 * Copyright (c) 2014, Oracle and/or its affiliates. All rights reserved.
 * Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without
 * modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions
 * are met:
 *   - Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright
 *     notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer.
 *   - Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright
 *     notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in the
 *     documentation and/or other materials provided with the distribution.
 *   - Neither the name of Oracle nor the names of its
 *     contributors may be used to endorse or promote products derived
 *     from this software without specific prior written permission.

if (!$OPTIONS._fx) {
    print("Usage: jjs -scripting -fx astviewer.js -- <.js file>");

// Using JavaFX from Nashorn. See also:
// This example shows AST of a script file as a JavaFX
// tree view in a window. If no file is specified, AST of
// this script file is shown. This script demonstrates
// 'load' function, JavaFX support by -fx, readFully function
// in scripting mode.

// JavaFX classes used
var StackPane = Java.type("javafx.scene.layout.StackPane");
var Scene     = Java.type("javafx.scene.Scene");
var TreeItem  = Java.type("javafx.scene.control.TreeItem");
var TreeView  = Java.type("javafx.scene.control.TreeView");

// Create a javafx TreeItem to view a AST node
function treeItemForASTNode(ast, name) {
    var item = new TreeItem(name);
    for (var prop in ast) {
       var node = ast[prop];
       if (typeof node == 'object') {
           if (node == null) {
               // skip nulls

           if (Array.isArray(node) && node.length == 0) {
               // skip empty arrays

           var subitem = treeItemForASTNode(node, prop);
       } else {
           var subitem = new TreeItem(prop + ": " + node);
    return item;

// do we have a script file passed? if not, use current script
var sourceName = arguments.length == 0? __FILE__ : arguments[0];

// load parser.js from nashorn resources

// read the full content of the file and parse it
// to get AST of the script specified
var ast = parse(readFully(sourceName));

// JavaFX start method
function start(stage) {
    stage.title = "AST Viewer";
    var rootItem = treeItemForASTNode(ast, sourceName);
    var tree = new TreeView(rootItem);
    var root = new StackPane();
    stage.scene = new Scene(root, 300, 450);;

This example shows you how to get the AST as JSON from Java. This was my own discovery from studying the Nashorn source code.
Code: (Java) [Select]
String code = "function a() { var b = 5; } function c() { }";

Options options = new Options("nashorn");
options.set("anon.functions", true);
options.set("parse.only", true);
options.set("scripting", true);

ErrorManager errors = new ErrorManager();
Context contextm = new Context(options, errors, Thread.currentThread().getContextClassLoader());
String json = ScriptUtils.parse(code, "<unknown>", false);

Both of the above two examples should give the following JSON encoded AST. This JSON encoding provided by Nashorn is compliant with the community standard JavaScript JSON AST model popularized by Mozilla.
Quote from: Java Console

This example code shows you how to get the AST as a Java object representation however the interface is poorly documented and I could not for the life of me figure out how to traverse the children of the function node. This solution is adapted from a StackOverflow post.
Code: (Java) [Select]
String code = "function a() { var b = 5; } function c() { }";

// parser options including anonymous functions
final Options options = new Options("nashorn");
options.set("anon.functions", true);
options.set("parse.only", true);
options.set("scripting", true);

ErrorManager errors = new ErrorManager();
Context contextm = new Context(options, errors, Thread.currentThread().getContextClassLoader());
// get a source handle for arbitrary javascript code passed as a string
final Source source = Source.sourceFor("<unknown>", code);

// get the global function node to traverse the parsed AST
FunctionNode node = new Parser(contextm.getEnv(), source, errors).parse();


for (Statement stmt : node.getBody().getStatements()) {

You should get the following output on the Java Console from the above code.
Quote from: Java Console
function {U%}a = [<unknown>] function {U%}a()
function {U%}c = [<unknown>] function {U%}c()

It is important to note however that this interface may change because it's not well documented and is new to the JSE. Additionally the OpenJDK project is developing a public interface for Java 9 that allows AST traversal in a more standard and user friendly way.

Limited documentation for the existing public Nashorn classes in Java 8 can be found below.

The following link provides a list of all of the parser and compiler options that I set above. However it is important to note that the syntax is different when setting the options inside Java where - is replaced with a period.

The Nashorn source code can be found on GitHub and also on BitBucket. I prefer the BitBucket version as the GitHub version seems to be missing some classes.

Developing ENIGMA / MinGW 64
« on: January 17, 2015, 12:41:35 PM »
Ok so I decided to see what it would take to finally support 64bit in ENIGMA.

The first thing was getting JDI and the Compiler to build with MinGW64

Edit: Josh approves as of this commit.

Edit: Josh advised me to use the fixed size types for the overload, so now the compiler builds with C++11 support too for both 32bit and 64bit GCC

I should not have wrote those straight to master but they may need reverted, anyway...

64bit Java/JNA can only load 64bit dll's and 32bit Java/JNA can only load 32bit dll's. This means that the users Java installation with ENIGMA thanks to the plugin and using ENIGMA the way we do will have to match the architecture of that the user not only has but also intends to target.

So if you have 64bit Java, with any ENIGMA release you will only be able to make 64bit games. And if you have 32bit Java you can only build and use the 32bit version of ENIGMA. But you could install both 32bit and 64bit ENIGMA in parallel and Java in parallel to be able to build for both architectures if you have a 64bit OS.

One possible alternative is to remove the requirement of JNA and compileEGMf all together replacing it entirely with the CLI allowing you to build both 32bit and 64bit applications with either a 32bit or 64bit Java installation. We could then use a MinGW that supports dual target though the exception support would be pretty grotesque, just because that's the state of current dual target MinGW compilers. Another way of accomplishing the same thing is to build compileEGMf for the supported Java architectures which would still require a dual target MinGW.

1) Do we want both a 32 bit and 64 bit ENIGMA portable, or just a very large single ENIGMA portable? If the former you would have to download both portables in order to build for both architectures.
2) Do we want to be able to build 32 bit games when we have a 64 bit Java installed to run LGM?
3) This is tied to the first question, but do you want proper gcc exception support or not? Because if we go with dual target either 64bit exception support is bad or we maintain two separate releases. If not we could include both mingw32 and mingw64 instead of a dual target mingw64, and that may or may not mean we have two separate portables.

Addressing this problem would fix several issues.
1) 64bit Java would be supported to run ENIGMA
2) 64bit compilation support would be added.

For the record Qt Framework also makes you install separately, as does Java and .NET and a lot of other programs.

Note: The good news is also that JNA supports both 32bit and 64bit so there's no need to distribute two versions of it.

Proposals / Disabling Automatic Semicolons
« on: December 30, 2014, 12:55:38 AM »
After I fixed the primitive arrays with Josh's help I wanted to fix initializer lists, they are only broken because of the automatic semicolons, when this is disabled they work. Harri's matrix array initialization is primarily what inspired me.

This was my attempt here:

But it ultimately fails because we simply don't have sufficient information to do this yet and a number of games are failing to parse after the changes. A better work around for the time being would be to add an option to disable automatic semicolons all together, this means you would have to always put your ';' terminating semicolons where they belong. But it would stop some things like initializer lists from breaking.

This would make the following possible in ENIGMA if you choose to disable it.
Code: (EDL) [Select]
int arr[2][3][4] = { { {1, 2, 3, 4}, {1, 2, 3, 4}, {1, 2, 3, 4} },
                     { {1, 2, 3, 4}, {1, 2, 3, 4}, {1, 2, 3, 4} } };

for (int r = 0; r < 2; r++) {
    for (int c = 0; c < 3; c++) {
        for (int n = 0; n < 4; n++) {

I would appreciate feedback on this and whether you guys think a setting for this would be nice. It should be considered an advanced setting as advanced users are more likely to properly terminate statements.

Third Party / Porting GMOgre
« on: December 29, 2014, 06:14:05 AM »
Well I've got some good news, I decided to try porting GMOgre again and was met with relative success. You can download the original examples from the GMC for now, I have not made a special ENIGMA release yet.

To start off I had to do similar fixes that were required for Ultimate3D, the window flags fix from a while back that has been added in the latest Portable ZIP is also needed.

Here are the problems:
1) Global variable exists function used to check if OGRE is initialized this, I just replaced this with global.ogre_initialized == true
2) Local variable exists functions used to initialize z values for objects, replaced this with a local flag and enabled "Treat unitialized variables as 0" in Game Settings->Errors
3) ENIGMA has not implemented temp_directory for the settings.ini to be stored, so I replaced it with working_directory, which is where the dll also must be kept
4) The GMOgre project files are totally corrupt, I had to import into Studio and then use LGM to convert the GMX back into GMK. The problem is the resources have their names but the part of the GMK storing the tree has them with the wrong names, just garbage. The GMK's also have problems in GM8.1
5) There's a conflict with the script named CreateFont, so I had to rename it to CreateFontA
6) There's a bug with default script arguments in obj_skybox create event. It calls EnableSkybox passing only argument1 skipping argument0 and 2-3. This is in fact a mistake in GMOgre, not an issue with ENIGMA, I tested GM8.1 and it does not allow skipping arguments, and neither does ISO C.
7) The OGRE log reports several shaders not being compiled, if we add the following code:
Code: (GML) [Select]
AddResourceLocation("./media/materials/programs");To the create event of obj_engine then different errors occur. I created these logs after changing the renderer to GL from DX9
8) We have no way of supporting GMAPI, this is why the RenderFrame script crashes, it is trying to call GML functions using GMAPI which Studio no longer supports either.

After fixing those problems I managed to get the GMOgre FPS example built but it crashes right after starting and throws debug messages about undefined vars.

This is the backtrace from GDB, if anybody has any ideas let me know.
Code: [Select]
(gdb) bt
#0  0x100d9f76 in ?? ()
#1  0x008c04c3 in ffi_call (cif=<optimized out>, fn=<optimized out>,
    rvalue=<optimized out>, avalue=<optimized out>)
    at /root/enigger_libs/mingw-w64-libffi/src/libffi-3.0.13/src/x86/ffi.c:405
#2  0x007b1a08 in enigma_user::external_call (id=497, a1=..., a2=..., a3=...,
    a4=..., a5=..., a6=..., a7=..., a8=..., a9=..., a10=..., a11=...,
    a12=..., a13=..., a14=..., a15=..., a16=...)
    at Platforms/Win32/WINDOWSexternals.cpp:176
#3  0x005f0a9e in _SCR_RenderFrame (argument0=..., argument1=...,
    argument2=..., argument3=..., argument4=..., argument5=...,
    argument6=..., argument7=..., argument8=..., argument9=...,
    argument10=..., argument11=..., argument12=..., argument13=...,
    argument14=..., argument15=...)
    at C:/ProgramData/ENIGMA/Preprocessor_Environment_Editable/IDE_EDIT_objectfu
#4  0x0077c724 in enigma::OBJ_obj_engine::myevent_endstep (this=0x3c26140)
    at C:/ProgramData/ENIGMA/Preprocessor_Environment_Editable/IDE_EDIT_objectfu
#5  0x00424ae6 in enigma::ENIGMA_events ()
    at C:/ProgramData/ENIGMA/Preprocessor_Environment_Editable/IDE_EDIT_events.h
#6  0x007a89a1 in WinMain@16 (hInstance=0x400000, hPrevInstance=0x0,
    lpCmdLine=0x238479f "", iCmdShow=10)
    at Platforms/Win32/WINDOWSmain.cpp:356
#7  0x00b2871d in main ()

Developing ENIGMA / New Portable
« on: December 28, 2014, 12:10:58 AM »
We've had some really awesome compiler fixes lately and I wanted to get these fixes out to everyone for testing. I have not updated LateralGM or the plugin since the last Portable ZIP, this was just a quick releases for these compiler fixes.

You can update by downloading the new ZIP.

You can also get these changes by entering the following in a terminal or using git-bash.exe
Code: [Select]
cd enigma-dev
git fetch
git pull

1) Nested macros have been fixed, this is basically nested string() calls, they will now work.
2) Fixed primitive arrays adding full multi-dimensional primitive array functionality.
3) Finished implementing the modulus assignment (%=) operator and overloaded it for var
4) Fixed alarm inheritance, though alarms may still fire out of order, they are supposed to be fired 0,1,2,3,etc. but currently ENIGMA fires the parents then the childs, this will be fixed in the future, but it is unlikely to cause a bug and it still works better than before. I can't really think of an example where someone would rely on alarm 1 to fire after alarm 0.
5) Instance activation/deactivation when used with inheritance fixed by sorlok
6) Enabled Unicode RC files, so you can enter the copyright symbol into LGM's platform settings now and it will properly encode it in your game executable
7) Fixes syntax checking output, fixes the line numbers and also actually formats the output for script, instance and room creation scope where it did not before.

Off-Topic / GitHub API
« on: December 26, 2014, 07:23:08 AM »
This is just something I'd like to point out about our issue tracker. The official GitHub API allows you to embed a GitHub issue tracker to a website and it also allows you to post issues for users.

This supersedes our current site tracker obviously which causes problems between the site and GitHub with formatting, the forum being in BB Code and GitHub being in Git MarkDown. This has also been counter intuitive and confused users about where to post issues, none of them ever grasp the concept that they are actually posting to GitHub and not the forums.

There is also Snowy, though I don't expect us to use it.

General ENIGMA / Extension Depends on Extension?
« on: December 13, 2014, 02:01:31 AM »
Not sure about this one but I'd like to know why the following isn't working for me.

Code: (YAML) [Select]
: DataStructures

My asynchronous extension relies on the Data Structure extension and needs it to be compiled first otherwise a segfault ensues. Since I can't find another extension that relies on another extension as an example I have absolutely nothing to go on and the Wiki page doesn't distinguish.

Do we have this system in place yet or not? Otherwise I will have to hard code the ds extension into the async extension and you'll have to build without the DS extension enabled.

Tips, Tutorials, Examples / Advanced Platform Example
« on: December 10, 2014, 12:44:11 AM »
This is just a heads up I ran across the tutorial for GM6 over at the GMC and it works perfectly in ENIGMA with no changes.

You can follow the tutorial from start to finish with ENIGMA.

General ENIGMA / New Portable
« on: December 10, 2014, 12:04:40 AM »

I decided to build a new Portable, it's been quite a while and the old one has gotten stale, plus most of the changes have been pretty stable and well received.

You can get it from the Windows install page.

This release includes several of the latest LGM and plugin changes such as all the awesome searching in resources features and what not, you can check the other topic for that info.

Let me point out some specific engine/compiler changes brought by this ZIP release:
1) Window flags were fixed to make extensions like Ultimate3D work, they are exactly the same flags used by GM8's window.
2) Object writing was refactored to use an instance tree by Josh, this makes several other future compiler fixes much easier.
3) With(self) was fixed by sorlok which makes Polygonz Sonic engine work again
4) instance_change fix provided by sorlok
5) Surface fixes and other GL changes by Harri
6) instance_deactivate_object fix by sorlok
7) Timelines infinite loop fixed by sorlok
8) Persistence memory leak fixed by Josh
9) Array length functionality and var overloading implemented by sorlok

There's been a ton of other changes but I don't see them as that important to list here, if you think one should be then tell me.

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