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Outsourcing saves money => Issues Help Desk => Topic started by: time-killer-games on August 13, 2014, 12:57:27 PM

Title: Linux Requirements
Post by: time-killer-games on August 13, 2014, 12:57:27 PM
What flavors of Linux does ENIGMA officially support? I know Ubuntu and Mint are, any others? Does it work on ALL major distros? Is is version spevific? IE works only on Ubuntu 12.10 or above? These things are important to know before anyone will consider ENIGMA for real Linux development.
Title: Re: Linux Requirements
Post by: onpon on August 13, 2014, 01:20:08 PM
This is a nonsensical question. Why would you expect only certain distributions of the same basic system to work with ENIGMA? The only version-specific requirements would be for the dependencies, and neither GNU nor Linux is a dependency. Even if a distro doesn't include ENIGMA's dependencies, you can get them yourself.

On the other hand, if you're just talking about what distros ENIGMA binaries are distributed for by the ENIGMA devs, that's kind of self-documenting, is it not? Obviously, if an Ubuntu 12.10 package doesn't exist, Ubuntu 12.10 isn't supported that way.
Title: Re: Linux Requirements
Post by: egofree on August 13, 2014, 02:12:00 PM
I can't answer to your question, but i can tell you that it's not possible for the moment to use ENIGMA with KDE based distros : https://github.com/IsmAvatar/LateralGM/issues/124
Title: Re: Linux Requirements
Post by: sorlok_reaves on August 13, 2014, 02:21:03 PM
The question is complicated by the GUI-compiler interactions. For example, the bug listed by egofree is actually a weird bug with the Plugin interface between LGM and ENIGMA. (In other words, the "command line interface" might still work on KDE systems, but I've never tried it.)

Ostensibly, there's nothing standing in the way of ENIGMA working on, say, Fedora. The BSDs may be another story. I think the majority of our Linux users are working on Debian-based distros.

Oh, I've also compiled it on Arch Linux.
Title: Re: Linux Requirements
Post by: fervi on August 13, 2014, 04:26:39 PM
What flavors of Linux does ENIGMA officially support? I know Ubuntu and Mint are, any others? Does it work on ALL major distros? Is is version spevific? IE works only on Ubuntu 12.10 or above? These things are important to know before anyone will consider ENIGMA for real Linux development.

Linux needs only a libs in propertly versions - Windows too

If your game use functions from very old Debian - the game can be played in old Debian.
But techically it should works in new versions of Linux (with new packages) like Debian Testing or Fedora

Fervi
Title: Re: Linux Requirements
Post by: time-killer-games on August 13, 2014, 04:55:32 PM
This is a nonsensical question. Why would you expect only certain distributions of the same basic system to work with ENIGMA? The only version-specific requirements would be for the dependencies, and neither GNU nor Linux is a dependency. Even if a distro doesn't include ENIGMA's dependencies, you can get them yourself.

On the other hand, if you're just talking about what distros ENIGMA binaries are distributed for by the ENIGMA devs, that's kind of self-documenting, is it not? Obviously, if an Ubuntu 12.10 package doesn't exist, Ubuntu 12.10 isn't supported that way.
More like onpon's reply was nonsensical.

System requirements are important. You shouldn't have to pretend otherwise. GameMaker:Studio only targets Ubuntu 12.10 or above distrobutions. While with ENIGMA, there should be a genral platform itofficially supports. People who aren't total nerds don't know how to install dependencies through the Terminal. Most poeple who use a computer in their everyday lives don't understand what terminal or command line even is, let alone how to use it, and don't forget most earthlings who have a life outside of the computer will probably never care to learn more or find out what these complicated things are. The ignorance isn't a good thing, but it's far too common for us to not cater to.

@ everyone esle - well there you go no one here knows. Doesn't surprise me :P But it's not a big deal depending on how you look at it.
Title: Re: Linux Requirements
Post by: edsquare on August 13, 2014, 05:25:54 PM
This is a nonsensical question. Why would you expect only certain distributions of the same basic system to work with ENIGMA? The only version-specific requirements would be for the dependencies, and neither GNU nor Linux is a dependency. Even if a distro doesn't include ENIGMA's dependencies, you can get them yourself.

On the other hand, if you're just talking about what distros ENIGMA binaries are distributed for by the ENIGMA devs, that's kind of self-documenting, is it not? Obviously, if an Ubuntu 12.10 package doesn't exist, Ubuntu 12.10 isn't supported that way.
More like onpon's reply was nonsensical.

System requirements are important. You shouldn't have to pretend otherwise. GameMaker:Studio only targets Ubuntu 12.10 or above distrobutions. While with ENIGMA, there should be a genral platform itofficially supports. People who aren't total nerds don't know how to install dependencies through the Terminal. Most poeple who use a computer in their everyday lives don't understand what terminal or command line even is, let alone how to use it, and don't forget most earthlings who have a life outside of the computer will probably never care to learn more or find out what these complicated things are. The ignorance isn't a good thing, but it's far too common for us to not cater to.

@ everyone esle - well there you go no one here knows. Doesn't surprise me :P But it's not a big deal depending on how you look at it.

But most linux distros come with a package manager a la synaptic, and to go to your terminal and do "sudo apt-get install whatever", is not that hard, the problems may present when you need an older library and it's not in your repos. Since neither LGM or ENIGMA are packaged software, you only need to install the dependencies, download the zip and run install.py.

And if you run into any trouble then you use google or go to the forum and ask for help.

If you installed using a deb/rpm package, then you almost always need to know if it's for the version of the distro you're using, when you install from source this almost never is a problem.
Title: Re: Linux Requirements
Post by: onpon on August 13, 2014, 05:47:13 PM
System requirements are important. You shouldn't have to pretend otherwise.

I don't pretend otherwise, but ENIGMA's requirement isn't something like "Ubuntu 12.10 or later". That's overly specific. Particular versions of each dependency are required. Some distros have those dependencies, and some don't. But there's no need to pretend that ENIGMA only works with Debian-based systems, much less a particular version of Debian, just because it's what ENIGMA's developers use and test ENIGMA on.

Most libre programs claim GNU/Linux support with libraries X, Y, and Z, then tell you exactly how to easily compile/install the program on a common system like Debian so that those on that system don't have to search for libraries X, Y, and Z. I suspect Game Maker is only claimed to have Ubuntu support because it's easier to support just Ubuntu than GNU/Linux in general. It's not something a program that's offered "as-is" at no cost has to deal with.

Quote
Most poeple who use a computer in their everyday lives don't understand what terminal or command line even is, let alone how to use it, and don't forget most earthlings who have a life outside of the computer will probably never care to learn more or find out what these complicated things are.

That level of hand-holding is the job of a distributor (e.g. Canonical in the case of Ubuntu).

Some projects provide packages for e.g. Debian or Ubuntu, but what does that have to do with documenting "system requirements"? A package being available for Ubuntu 12.04 but not Ubuntu 12.10 and not Fedora doesn't mean that the program can't work on Ubuntu 12.10 or Fedora, it just means that Ubuntu 12.10 and Fedora users have to install it a more difficult way.
Title: Re: Linux Requirements
Post by: time-killer-games on August 13, 2014, 07:49:25 PM
This seems to be a lot more involved than I thought. I suppose your right. My head hurts. This is too deep.
Title: Re: Linux Requirements
Post by: sorlok_reaves on August 13, 2014, 11:11:52 PM
This seems to be a lot more involved than I thought. I suppose your right. My head hurts. This is too deep.

I guess a related question is: are you trying to get ENIGMA working on a particular distro?
Title: Re: Linux Requirements
Post by: Goombert on August 13, 2014, 11:14:57 PM
egofree, did you prepare a patch with a custom comparator? If that solves the error I'd like to go ahead and pull that for now, or since you have commit access go ahead and do that as it is better than no solution and the software being unusable, so go ahead and fix it. If you want of course, please, lol :)
Title: Re: Linux Requirements
Post by: egofree on August 14, 2014, 02:18:33 AM
egofree, did you prepare a patch with a custom comparator? If that solves the error I'd like to go ahead and pull that for now, or since you have commit access go ahead and do that as it is better than no solution and the software being unusable, so go ahead and fix it. If you want of course, please, lol :)

Well, first, recently you said you were still thinking about a good solution for this. :D Then, the focus manager i've found on internet is not really ready, as the focus is no more functioning on the toolbar. So this means there is more work needed on this. I spent already many hours on this problem, and for the moment i don't feel very motivated to work on this. :(
Title: Re: Linux Requirements
Post by: egofree on August 14, 2014, 02:47:32 AM
Robert, let's make a deal  :D :  when i will have finished the new instance's properties (scaling, rotation, alpha) in the rooms editor, i will work again on this problem. Now i would be very grateful if you could work on the multiple views problem in OpenGL. I know that you are very busy, but you said that this is a very simple problem to fix : it is just the buffer which needs to be swapped. What do you think ?  :D
Title: Re: Linux Requirements
Post by: Goombert on August 14, 2014, 10:32:53 PM
Oh I understand egofree, I assumed at least some of the basic behavior of the toolbar would function. It would be better to wait after the room stuff, I do agree, one thing at a time. Here is what I think we should do for now, find out how we can see if the OS is a KDE distro and if it is then we useLegacyMergeSort and on all other systems we just use the regular behavior.

Also, I did make an attempt at fixing that multiple views issue and there is something funky about it, I did test all the draw clear calls as well as screen refresh and had no success at all with it. I can take another crack at it sometime though.
Title: Re: Linux Requirements
Post by: egofree on August 15, 2014, 01:31:12 PM
Also, I did make an attempt at fixing that multiple views issue and there is something funky about it, I did test all the draw clear calls as well as screen refresh and had no success at all with it. I can take another crack at it sometime though.

Thanks for trying. I appreciate.  :)
Title: Re: Linux Requirements
Post by: Josh @ Dreamland on August 15, 2014, 06:51:21 PM
ENIGMA officially supports any distribution which has a competent package manager and is based on the X11 window server. Wayland support and/or Mir support will be added down the road, as they roll out.
Title: Re: Linux Requirements
Post by: time-killer-games on August 16, 2014, 06:48:29 PM
Thank you Josh for answering my question.