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General fluff => Off-Topic => Topic started by: edsquare on July 17, 2014, 12:46:30 PM

Title: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 17, 2014, 12:46:30 PM
It's funny how the religious fervor is redirected among the community.

There is an inversely proportional correlation between how much have you studied and the grade of religious belief you have:

The more you stay in school the less prone to religious belief you are, and yet...

I beleive in FPC, him believes in C++, that one believes in C#, that other in java, and so on.

The same goes for libraries, wxwidgets people vs QT people, SDL vs SFML vs Allegro, etc.

Not to speack about Operating Systems, here truly the blood can reach the river, and is a free for all war, with the only exeption when you are confronted with people really outside the family : Windows vs Linux vs OsX, but among the Linux community there is no peace.

It's everybody against everybody else, Distro vs Distro, Desktop vs Desktop, Developing method and software are right there too.

Could it be only that, we, as a species, are prone to violence against those outside our group?
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: time-killer-games on July 17, 2014, 12:57:32 PM
Religion causes wars. Not programming languages, OS's and all that other geeky stuff. While there are many passionate fans of every non-dead OS (Windows, Mac, Linux, Android, iOS, etc) it's nothing to cause any violence over let alone war. That's like comparing a jagged knife with a sponge.
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 17, 2014, 01:28:55 PM
Religion causes wars. Not programming languages, OS's and all that other geeky stuff. While there are many passionate fans of every non-dead OS (Windows, Mac, Linux, Android, iOS, etc) it's nothing to cause any violence over let alone war. That's like comparing a jagged knife with a sponge.

Okey, not literal wars with dead people and all but still wars of a sort.
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: Darkstar2 on July 17, 2014, 01:54:58 PM
Congratulations mate ! You just cracked the mystery of life.   You nailed it perfectly.  We are wired to go against one another, it's group vs. group.   Religion wars, operating system wars, programming languages wars, cultural wars, race wars, did I leave anything out ? :P

As TKG would say, true dat homie. :P

It's funny how the religious fervor is redirected among the community.

There is an inversely proportional correlation between how much have you studied and the grade of religious belief you have:

The more you stay in school the less prone to religious belief you are, and yet...

I beleive in FPC, him believes in C++, that one believes in C#, that other in java, and so on.

The same goes for libraries, wxwidgets people vs QT people, SDL vs SFML vs Allegro, etc.

Not to speack about Operating Systems, here truly the blood can reach the river, and is a free for all war, with the only exeption when you are confronted with people really outside the family : Windows vs Linux vs OsX, but among the Linux community there is no peace.

It's everybody against everybody else, Distro vs Distro, Desktop vs Desktop, Developing method and software are right there too.

Could it be only that, we, as a species, are prone to violence against those outside our group?
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: TheExDeus on July 17, 2014, 01:57:07 PM
Well it's up to preference. But each programming language has some differences that makes on objectively better than another. Like if you want to use pure C++, then it's usually much harder to compile (all the makefile business). If you want many data types built-in, then python can be better, but it's usually slower and I hate the syntax (that part is subjective). If you want to use a lot of matrices and higher level math, then Matlab is a lot better, but you won't render anything real-time with it. So right tool for the right job I suppose. Like if you want to make a 2D game, then it's hard for me to imagine something better than EDL/GML.
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: Darkstar2 on July 17, 2014, 02:00:09 PM
Well it's up to preference. But each programming language has some differences that makes on objectively better than another. Like if you want to use pure C++, then it's usually much harder to compile (all the makefile business). If you want many data types built-in, then python can be better, but it's usually slower and I hate the syntax (that part is subjective). If you want to use a lot of matrices and higher level math, then Matlab is a lot better, but you won't render anything real-time with it. So right tool for the right job I suppose. Like if you want to make a 2D game, then it's hard for me to imagine something better than EDL/GML.

We all know C++ is king right ? :P

They even have such a thing as programming hell and coding heaven too ! (I thought you'd get a kick out of that eds ! LOL!).
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: egofree on July 17, 2014, 02:34:53 PM
We all know C++ is king right ? :P

Of course C++ is the king :  it has semicolon on every line !  ;D  :D (I hope Robert will not read this !  ;) )
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 17, 2014, 03:52:30 PM
Well it's up to preference. But each programming language has some differences that makes on objectively better than another. Like if you want to use pure C++, then it's usually much harder to compile (all the makefile business). If you want many data types built-in, then python can be better, but it's usually slower and I hate the syntax (that part is subjective). If you want to use a lot of matrices and higher level math, then Matlab is a lot better, but you won't render anything real-time with it. So right tool for the right job I suppose. Like if you want to make a 2D game, then it's hard for me to imagine something better than EDL/GML.

We all know C++ is king right ? :P

They even have such a thing as programming hell and coding heaven too ! (I thought you'd get a kick out of that eds ! LOL!).

Well on windows you do have a hell...


DLL HELL!!  ::)
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 17, 2014, 03:56:14 PM
Well it's up to preference. But each programming language has some differences that makes on objectively better than another. Like if you want to use pure C++, then it's usually much harder to compile (all the makefile business). If you want many data types built-in, then python can be better, but it's usually slower and I hate the syntax (that part is subjective). If you want to use a lot of matrices and higher level math, then Matlab is a lot better, but you won't render anything real-time with it. So right tool for the right job I suppose. Like if you want to make a 2D game, then it's hard for me to imagine something better than EDL/GML.

The right tool for the job Amen to that!

(in my humble opinion)

Easiest to learn : Python, Lua, Pascal

Easiest to compile : FPC by far

Best Syntax : Python

Most libraries : C++, Python (although that has less to do with the quality than with the popularity)


Of course C++ is the king :  it has semicolon on every line !  ;D  :D (I hope Robert will not read this !  ;) )

Pascal too has semicolon on almost every line, but it uses the {} for comments, so clearly it is king!  ;D
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: Josh @ Dreamland on July 17, 2014, 10:23:47 PM
I myself am a JavaScript evangelist, and make regular sacrifices to C++. I also hold the belief that Windows users are headed for hell, and Mac users are already there.
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: Goombert on July 18, 2014, 01:33:29 AM
lol Josh roflmao

Quote
The more you stay in school the less prone to religious belief you are, and yet...
Yeah, or, the less prone you are to religious belief the more you stay in school.
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 18, 2014, 10:25:51 AM
lol Josh roflmao

Quote
The more you stay in school the less prone to religious belief you are, and yet...
Yeah, or, the less prone you are to religious belief the more you stay in school.

Actually the more education, be it formal or self done the less prone you are to religious belief, some of my fellow atheists say that the more inteligent but that's not true, it has to do with knowledge not with IQ. So if like me you end up educating yourself the probability is still there.
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: TheExDeus on July 18, 2014, 01:28:02 PM
I think what Robert wanted to say is that the opposite is also true. If you are atheist or agnostic it's also more probable you will stay at school or pursue higher education (like in university). Because I also don't think that people at universities become atheists, it's more probable that it just solidifies their already hidden beliefs. But I guess it's true in all direction. It's just that the statistics are there, but I don't know if someone actually tried to figure it out.
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 18, 2014, 02:20:13 PM
I think what Robert wanted to say is that the opposite is also true. If you are atheist or agnostic it's also more probable you will stay at school or pursue higher education (like in university). Because I also don't think that people at universities become atheists, it's more probable that it just solidifies their already hidden beliefs. But I guess it's true in all direction. It's just that the statistics are there, but I don't know if someone actually tried to figure it out.

Why do you believe the fundamentalist movement in the USA is always trying to destroy science and/or inject creationism in the classroom?

They know that a teenager, away from home, among people that do not share their fundamentalist point of view, and in contact with science is more likely to leave the group (not sure because you find medical doctors who are fundamentalists  :o ). Yes the less inclined towards religious fundamentalism you are the more likely you are to pursue an education, but that doesn't denies nor confirms the other premise, HighSchool, University and the internet are great destroyers of faith. The acces to the facts tends to have that impact on people.
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: Darkstar2 on July 18, 2014, 04:14:59 PM
I myself am a JavaScript evangelist, and make regular sacrifices to C++. I also hold the belief that Windows users are headed for hell, and Mac users are already there.

Windows users went to hell and heaven back and forth (Me, Vista, ) now it's back in hell with windows 8.  Seems Windows is working on a tick-tock generation, heaven-hell-heaven-hell etc..... :P
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: Darkstar2 on July 18, 2014, 04:26:18 PM
What a load of horse fucking manure. :D

Would someone with faith and beliefs necessarily be uneducated and less so than others ? that is most fucked up thing I read in a while, I'd love to see those studies and any credibility they have and the sample data they used.........  Some of the world's most vicious terro***ts (had to * to avoid tripping NSA flags :D) and fanatic religious person have continued their education and university grads with masters.  Do I need to cite some examples ? :D

There are many people who hold PhDs and Doctorates, who have faith and religious beliefs, they do well for themselves.  Some of you still are obsessed with this !  There are big differences between have religious beliefs / faith and fanaticism, or people trying to push their shite and convert others.  Maybe such a theory would hold some truth for that category.  Not everyone with a masters degree is an atheist and not everyone who believes in God is a welfare hoarding motherfucker without an education.

Perhaps whoever came up with this fucked up the arsehole theory must have thought that the education system brainwashes people into thinking science is absolute, that it has answers to everything, since it is part of a multi trillion $ industry and corruption, people thinking outside the box are deemed crazy.  There are many things beyond our comprehension that science cannot explain, paranormal in nature, lots that the NASA and military is not telling people and classify that info.  Many of these have a University education.

I see that a lot I mean have not come across more university students that have beliefs than those atheist should I go tell them ,hey come the fuck come you are in univeristy, you are supposed to be a dumb git because you have beliefs.

Man created religion.......and the same man kind also created retarded stereotypes.  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: TheExDeus on July 18, 2014, 05:03:07 PM
Quote
Not everyone with a masters degree is an atheist and not everyone who believes in God is a welfare hoarding motherfucker without an education.
We are not arguing about "everyone". Of course many very smart and educated people are religious and many non-religious people are quite frankly idiots. But there has been a correlation found. But correlation doesn't imply causation. More research, especially in non-western world needs to be done. But it's not a stereotype and it's not a "arsehole theory". You can read about it here:
http://arstechnica.com/science/2013/08/new-meta-analysis-checks-the-correlation-between-intelligence-and-faith/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religiosity_and_intelligence

I am surprised you didn't know that yet though. As ED^2, Robert and I seemed to be on the same page from the beginning. :D

edit:
Quote
Perhaps whoever came up with this fucked up the arsehole theory must have thought that the education system brainwashes people into thinking science is absolute, that it has answers to everything, since it is part of a multi trillion $ industry and corruption, people thinking outside the box are deemed crazy.  There are many things beyond our comprehension that science cannot explain, paranormal in nature, lots that the NASA and military is not telling people and classify that info.  Many of these have a University education.
Just for curiosity - have you gone to college or university?
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 18, 2014, 05:07:08 PM
@Darkstar2:

No man the study (I will give you a link when I find it again) says just that the more you study the less likely you are to be a religious person, not that everybody that goes to college or the university throws away their faith, or that only dumb and uneducated people have some sort of religious belief.

Chill out and read carefully, do not jump to conclusions, the operating and key word is likely.

Peace out.

EDIT: Since TheExDeus already and kndly posted the links and helped clarifying the issue I hope we are cool.
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: Darkstar2 on July 18, 2014, 06:05:41 PM
@Darkstar2:

No man the study (I will give you a link when I find it again) says just that the more you study the less likely you are to be a religious person, not that everybody that goes to college or the university throws away their faith, or that only dumb and uneducated people have some sort of religious belief.

Yeah the less likely but not for the reasons most people think.  Because most of the time you are too damn busy and flooded with work and assignments you barely have time to eat, sleep and wank let alone think of religion or go to church, and yes I know because I've been there, or did you lot assume I did not go farther than grade school because I believe in God ? LOL.
I would be disappointed otherwise so yeah, most of the time you are spent studying, work, studying, work, studying, and then there is the social aspect, so too busy to be "religious" so to speak, but no matter how busy one can be does not mean you don't believe!. Again I repeat for the millionth time, I am not a religious person, I'm the last person who will be pushing religion lol.  But I believe we are all created from the  same, it's just that man kind made religion, and all the cultural barriers that separate us......Not all of us believers are grade school educated monks you know :P  I could be a well educated ER doctor that believes in God and goes to church from time to time.....
What is the % of people who continue past high school ? small percentage...... It's been a long time I have seen figures, but last time I saw figures it was about 11-14%, I don't know about US figures, it's probably around those or higher.....So are the majority % of those high school educated people all religious ? Not necessarily.

There again maybe it depends what you are studying, maybe if your field is studying medicine, science, etc, you might be less LIKELY to be religious, some would say,
 HOWEVER, I know people in the field who are religious / believers.  In medicine there are documented cases that defy any medical science / explanation or anything taught in med school.  In fact some non believers became believers, and the other way around too.   Another thing people don't discuss much about is the environment you were brought up and around you, that has an influence as well. 

Instead of us believers being the target of atheist as if we were fucking criminals when all we are doing is minding our business and not pushing our crap on anybody (believer does not necessarily mean fanatic!) perhaps you lot should target those CRIMINALS, those charlatans ministers and TV evangelist who run their SCAMS on TV to lure the suckers !   Or a certain religion where people KILL in the name of their God, claiming any people outside their religion is evil and must be exterminated.....FUNNY how people don't put much emphasis on that, and instead label anybody who believes in a God / Supreme being as being a nutter.
You humans are so odd in your way of thinking.....

 
Quote
EDIT: Since TheExDeus already and kndly posted the links and helped clarifying the issue I hope we are cool.

Sure it was never an issue. :D
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: TheExDeus on July 18, 2014, 06:31:21 PM
Quote
Another thing people don't discuss much about is the environment you were brought up and around you, that has an influence as well. 
That is why more non-western countries need to be additionally examined. But the point is that in 2009 study US only 4% were without belief in general population, but 41% in science. That is a great difference that cannot in fact be explained by family's or places the person grow up in. That is the point all those studies try to make and figure out. (http://www.pewforum.org/2009/11/05/scientists-and-belief/)
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: Darkstar2 on July 18, 2014, 06:49:09 PM
Quote
Another thing people don't discuss much about is the environment you were brought up and around you, that has an influence as well. 
That is why more non-western countries need to be additionally examined. But the point is that in 2009 study US only 4% were without belief in general population, but 41% in science. That is a great difference that cannot in fact be explained by family's or places the person grow up in. That is the point all those studies try to make and figure out. (http://www.pewforum.org/2009/11/05/scientists-and-belief/)

Of course lol "science".  Are you surprised?

People who study the field will use science to try and find any logical explanation behind everything even if there is no concrete explanation.

You are sitting down watching the tely and all of a sudden you notice a shimmering white lite hovering across the room and zipping through your window.

Sure there must be a scientific explanation......:P

Or doctor who treats a patient in the ER, patient flatlines, no brain activity, for several minutes.  Patient is revived and recalls the entire conversation with 100% accuracy amongst doctors, but also doctors in other rooms - SURE.....I guess there must be a logical explanation right, brain was dead during that time, no electrical activity whatsoever.

I think out of the percentage of non believers in science there could be the "I-don't-wanna-be-crazy" syndrome, where people deny and don't WANT to believe by fear of persecution by others.

SO instead they will compensate with scientific explanations even though they are not facts or proven !  i.e. oh it was just brain cells firing or chemical reaction at moment of death (even though they know no activity was shown!).

People make science as absolute, when science only has answers to a fraction of questions.  Still science cannot explain 100% of our brain function, still don't know why certain things occur, etc.  MANY things science cannot explain.

Another problem that is making non believers is hoaxes and charlatanism, some people are using religion as a propaganda tool and making it an industry full of hoax and scams.

Now in medical science, there is a specific area of interest, our "God" part of our brain. It is believed that we are hard wired, and that belief in a God/Supreme being is the result of that area in our brain.  STILL does not explain all the mysteries - how come some people all of a sudden can heal of terminal illness that otherwise would be impossible / unlikely in medicine.....where illness has gone and vanished as if it were never there.  How to explain that some people have amazing abilities / talents so young in age and seem to have knowledge of things they never could possibly have known, through regressive hypnosis.  All these cases are documented by science yet still cannot be explained.

On that note,
Cheers.

:D




Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 18, 2014, 06:53:32 PM
@Darkstar2:

No man the study (I will give you a link when I find it again) says just that the more you study the less likely you are to be a religious person, not that everybody that goes to college or the university throws away their faith, or that only dumb and uneducated people have some sort of religious belief.

Yeah the less likely but not for the reasons most people think.  Because most of the time you are too damn busy and flooded with work and assignments you barely have time to eat, sleep and wank let alone think of religion or go to church, and yes I know because I've been there, or did you lot assume I did not go farther than grade school because I believe in God ? LOL.

I don't remember anyone refering to you or anybody by name, so I don't know what got you so riled, anyway; and if you were a grade school dropout so what? Until a couple of weeks ago I myself was a higschool dropout (Had to) now I have my diploma and am planing on going to college (University), I'm 48 and for your information my IQ hasn't moved one bit since the day I reached 18 it's around 180 points, and it was the same when i did believe. I repeat: likely is just a posibility not a certainty.

I would be disappointed otherwise so yeah, most of the time you are spent studying, work, studying, work, studying, and then there is the social aspect, so too busy to be "religious" so to speak, but no matter how busy one can be does not mean you don't believe!. Again I repeat for the millionth time, I am not a religious person, I'm the last person who will be pushing religion lol.  But I believe we are all created from the  same, it's just that man kind made religion, and all the cultural barriers that separate us......Not all of us believers are grade school educated monks you know :P  I could be a well educated ER doctor that believes in God and goes to church from time to time.....

You're right, for all I know you could be an astrophisicist and still have religious beliefs, I think a small percentage of the people in that field do.

What is the % of people who continue past high school ? small percentage...... It's been a long time I have seen figures, but last time I saw figures it was about 11-14%, I don't know about US figures, it's probably around those or higher.....So are the majority % of those high school educated people all religious ? Not necessarily.

Well you see... Yes the majority of the people with higschool or less education ARE religious, while the higher you go on the education scale the percentage drops until it asyntotes around 5% religious (I think that is the number), versus 95% non-religious, so although there hasn't been enough studies to demonstrate causality the correlation does exist. When I say non- religious I mean either declared agnostics or declared atheists, not people that do not go to church.

There again maybe it depends what you are studying, maybe if your field is studying medicine, science, etc, you might be less LIKELY to be religious, some would say,
 HOWEVER, I know people in the field who are religious / believers.  In medicine there are documented cases that defy any medical science / explanation or anything taught in med school.  In fact some non believers became believers, and the other way around too.   Another thing people don't discuss much about is the environment you were brought up and around you, that has an influence as well. 

Absolutely right, the hard sciences (math, physics, chemistry) along with biology hold the larger percentage of non believers. And you don't have to be a PhD on those fields, often is enough to read popular science books and magazines to deconvert.

Instead of us believers being the target of atheist as if we were fucking criminals when all we are doing is minding our business and not pushing our crap on anybody (believer does not necessarily mean fanatic!) perhaps you lot should target those CRIMINALS, those charlatans ministers and TV evangelist who run their SCAMS on TV to lure the suckers !   Or a certain religion where people KILL in the name of their God, claiming any people outside their religion is evil and must be exterminated.....FUNNY how people don't put much emphasis on that, and instead label anybody who believes in a God / Supreme being as being a nutter.
You humans are so odd in your way of thinking.....

FUNNY how nobody said anything negative about religious people (And we could have, you yourself just provided some excelent examples), we just stated a curious fact, and notice how I never say more inteligent always is more educated (IN school I mean) because I know that a high IQ
 doesn't say anything about your beliefs, of course you could make the case that since among the scientific community (the most inteligent people in the planet), when you reach the top layers, the ones likely to get a nobel prize, the less religious they are about a 5% as I already said.

But since it doesn't drop to zero and the ones that do believe in a god are equally smart as the ones that don't your case would be easilly disproved.

Once again chill out and don't take us to seriously and never take anything as a personal atack unless it is directed to you, you know as if somebody said hey edsquare you are a M***erF***er, then it would be within reason to asume that an attack is directed at me, but if someone says some atheists are rapists, the most I could do is ask for the source where that person extracted the info to make such claim.

I don't think the majority of religious people are bad people, but I do think that all religions are bad.

Quote
EDIT: Since TheExDeus already and kndly posted the links and helped clarifying the issue I hope we are cool.

Sure it was never an issue. :D

It sure sounded like an issue to me.
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: Darkstar2 on July 18, 2014, 07:21:53 PM
I don't remember anyone refering to you or anybody by name, so I don't know what got you so riled, anyway; and if you were a grade school dropout so what? Until a couple of weeks ago I myself was a higschool dropout (Had to) now I have my diploma and am planing on going to college (University),

Another TOPIC worth discussing alone is education.  There are many examples of people who did not finish high school who are billionaires and very successful people....yet there are people who have went far with their studies and are no better than the average person.  Some people are skilled and self taught and have become self made millionaires ! MANY examples of that.  Some of the most successful and richest people on the planet have not continued past high school.  Also keep in mind the % of people who stopped at high school, not by choice, but given circumstances as I'm sure you are aware.

Quote
I'm 48 and for your information my IQ hasn't moved one bit since the day I reached 18 it's around 180 points, and it was the same when i did believe. I repeat: likely is just a posibility not a certainty.

possibility.  :)  And IQ of 180 are you sure about that ???  so you are a savant/genius then...... MENSA ????
Rare are people at the 150-160......180 ? probably 2 digits in an entire country, so you are a genius ! :D

Quote
You're right, for all I know you could be an astrophisicist and still have religious beliefs, I think a small percentage of the people in that field do.

astrophysicist  or I could be a film producer / writer too :D

Quote
Absolutely right, the hard sciences (math, physics, chemistry) along with biology hold the larger percentage of non believers. And you don't have to be a PhD on those fields, often is enough to read popular science books and magazines to deconvert.

Deconvert is not a valid word :D

but I know what you mean.  All you have to do is watch the news about the pedophiles, rapists, religious crimes, fanaticism, tv evangelism, enough to turn even the most religious person a non believer..... Outside influence can make or break you, not just studies or science.  I am disgusted by the fact but I know that what we see on TV and all the scam artists don,t represent the majority, only media is more likely to report the bad doers than the good doers. :D

Quote
But since it doesn't drop to zero and the ones that do believe in a god are equally smart as the ones that don't your case would be easilly disproved.

Well intelligence and studies have nothing to do.  Some of the biggest world terro***ts have studied in University and have high IQ....only problem is that they used their abilities for evil instead of good.
Quote
I don't think the majority of religious people are bad people, but I do think that all religions are bad.

They are bad because they were created by man kind and is responsible for the 90% of world conflicts and divisions.   We are all the same species, all the same.....who created the barriers that separate us (cultural, race, colour, religion, etc.) man kind, not a supreme being that's for sure.  So yeah, what do you expect from man's creation which is not perfect. :D

Remove religion from the equation and all of a sudden you just resolved 90% of world conflicts, wars, etc.

You can still believe in a supreme being (God for all) without being religious or practicing any religion.

Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 18, 2014, 07:27:05 PM
Quote
Another thing people don't discuss much about is the environment you were brought up and around you, that has an influence as well. 
That is why more non-western countries need to be additionally examined. But the point is that in 2009 study US only 4% were without belief in general population, but 41% in science. That is a great difference that cannot in fact be explained by family's or places the person grow up in. That is the point all those studies try to make and figure out. (http://www.pewforum.org/2009/11/05/scientists-and-belief/)

Of course lol "science".  Are you surprised?

People who study the field will use science to try and find any logical explanation behind everything even if there is no concrete explanation.

You are sitting down watching the tely and all of a sudden you notice a shimmering white lite hovering across the room and zipping through your window.

Sure there must be a scientific explanation......:P

Most likely yes, but even if science ends up saying we don't know, that's not a reason to jump and say aliens!

Or doctor who treats a patient in the ER, patient flatlines, no brain activity, for several minutes.  Patient is revived and recalls the entire conversation with 100% accuracy amongst doctors, but also doctors in other rooms - SURE.....I guess there must be a logical explanation right, brain was dead during that time, no electrical activity whatsoever.

There has never been a demonstrated case of someone having no brain activity (Brain death) and comming back to life, flatliners yes, but you can flatline for some minutes without several damage to your brain. Since you are not dead, and your brain is functioning, so are your senses, since they are just electrical impulses that go from your nerves to your brain.

I think out of the percentage of non believers in science there could be the "I-don't-wanna-be-crazy" syndrome, where people deny and don't WANT to believe by fear of persecution by others.

SO instead they will compensate with scientific explanations even though they are not facts or proven !  i.e. oh it was just brain cells firing or chemical reaction at moment of death (even though they know no activity was shown!).

Maybe because that exact experiences can and have been recreated in a lab by stimulating the right frontal lobe of the brain with magnetism, and the people see god, a tunel, a bright light, and even aliens, depending on their beliefs.

People make science as absolute, when science only has answers to a fraction of questions.  Still science cannot explain 100% of our brain function, still don't know why certain things occur, etc.  MANY things science cannot explain.

Not that many things, but even if we really knew nothing it would not follow god (or the aliens) did it. Things science doesn't know yet:

How did life start? since the hypothesis of chemicals forming polymeres until those same polymers could replicated themselves hasn't been sufficiently investigated (because we don't know the exact climatic and chemical conditions of the earth back then), so it's still a hypothesis and not a theory (In science a theory is the graduation of an idea, there's no higher rung in the knowledge ladder).

What is the black matter? Is funny but is really energy but the scientists know didly squat about it

What is black energy? It's funny but it really is energy (WTF?) and the scientists know didly squat about it

These two things are over 90% of the known universe, so we as a species know didly squat about 90% of the cosmos, and yet there's no reason to shout: The scientists dont know? God did it!

If you reduce your God to a god of the gaps (Search the falacy) then your god is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance, and the more we know about the universe the more small and unnecessary he becomes.

Another problem that is making non believers is hoaxes and charlatanism, some people are using religion as a propaganda tool and making it an industry full of hoax and scams.

Some people? In my humble opinion all organized religion is a scam (note the word organized? it means the institutions and their employes, not the believer)

Now in medical science, there is a specific area of interest, our "God" part of our brain. It is believed that we are hard wired, and that belief in a God/Supreme being is the result of that area in our brain.  STILL does not explain all the mysteries - how come some people all of a sudden can heal of terminal illness that otherwise would be impossible / unlikely in medicine.....where illness has gone and vanished as if it were never there.  How to explain that some people have amazing abilities / talents so young in age and seem to have knowledge of things they never could possibly have known, through regressive hypnosis.  All these cases are documented by science yet still cannot be explained.

Documented by science? where? Child prodigys do exist, and so do savants (people with severe authism that are geniouses in some field without studying), but this doesn't prove god nor the aliens.

People recovering from terminal illness, yes I know it does happen, you sure you want to make the case for god based in that?
Why doesn't he heal then all the babies and children? I'm sure their parents can be teached whatever important lesson in other less painful ways.

As many of you may have guessed by now, I'm not of this earth.  I'm born on planet Krypelius-46, it's a planet very similar to earth, in distant galaxies apart.  We have much the same problems you humans are facing, we have the same beliefs, same wars, etc, some believe we might be a clone or parallel / shadow universe, but I can tell you humans that you are not alone on earth.  There are infinite amounts of "earths" out there and even on other planets they also have the same mysteries, unanswered.  We are not aliens per se, as depicted by media, but human beings, living in other galaxies and universes. YES those exist,  Life is not limited to a point in space/time. You have ALWAYS existed and ALWAYS will continue to exist simultaneously across the infinite space.
Death is only an illusion.  The version of me born on my planet is gone as I expired (what you humans call death) - at that instant my existence continues but this time on your earth, but I never ceased to exist.

FUNNY, now you are quoting scientific hypothesis (the multiverse, the permanent universe, panspermia, among others)

Energy does not die only flesh.

Energy does not die true, tu die something needs to be alive, and energy is not alive; we know when something is alive, it feels, it eats, it reproduces, it grows, it dies; so it follows that yes flesh dies.

Your science cannot explain stuff but I can tell you, warp holes do exist, time travel IS possible and exists, parallel universes DO exist, and you are not alone.

On that note,
Cheers.

:D

Warp holes, if I understood that book about quantum physics correctly, are indeed possible, not sure how likely but possible yes.

Time travel is possible, yes science tells us that, it's only impraticable by us in the current state of our knowledge, parallel universes or the multiverse have been postulated as posible explanations as to what was there before the bigbang (The worst name for a theory ever).

We are not alone... If you mean aliens do exist, yes is so probable that it's almost a certanty, do they visit earth? I don't think so:

Why would they? To study us? If they can traverse the universe (Engines to travel faster than light? Warp holes?) they are so far ahead of us that they more likely than  not would see us as just ants.

If they came they more likely would follow the rule of an advanced civilization encountering a less advanced one and conquer us.

Any way cheers and peace out.  ;)
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 18, 2014, 07:41:20 PM
I don't remember anyone refering to you or anybody by name, so I don't know what got you so riled, anyway; and if you were a grade school dropout so what? Until a couple of weeks ago I myself was a higschool dropout (Had to) now I have my diploma and am planing on going to college (University),

Another TOPIC worth discussing alone is education.  There are many examples of people who did not finish high school who are billionaires and very successful people....yet there are people who have went far with their studies and are no better than the average person.  Some people are skilled and self taught and have become self made millionaires ! MANY examples of that.  Some of the most successful and richest people on the planet have not continued past high school.  Also keep in mind the % of people who stopped at high school, not by choice, but given circumstances as I'm sure you are aware.

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I'm 48 and for your information my IQ hasn't moved one bit since the day I reached 18 it's around 180 points, and it was the same when i did believe. I repeat: likely is just a posibility not a certainty.

possibility.  :)  And IQ of 180 are you sure about that ???  so you are a savant/genius then...... MENSA ????
Rare are people at the 150-160......180 ? probably 2 digits in an entire country, so you are a genius ! :D

Not really a genious, it takes more than IQ to be one, anyway I think that to be considered one by your IQ alone it must be over

Fuck! searching for the IQ chart I found out I must be wrong about the results!, will have to take another test!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IQ_classification

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You're right, for all I know you could be an astrophisicist and still have religious beliefs, I think a small percentage of the people in that field do.

astrophysicist  or I could be a film producer / writer too :D

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Absolutely right, the hard sciences (math, physics, chemistry) along with biology hold the larger percentage of non believers. And you don't have to be a PhD on those fields, often is enough to read popular science books and magazines to deconvert.

Deconvert is not a valid word :D

but I know what you mean.  All you have to do is watch the news about the pedophiles, rapists, religious crimes, fanaticism, tv evangelism, enough to turn even the most religious person a non believer..... Outside influence can make or break you, not just studies or science.  I am disgusted by the fact but I know that what we see on TV and all the scam artists don,t represent the majority, only media is more likely to report the bad doers than the good doers. :D

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But since it doesn't drop to zero and the ones that do believe in a god are equally smart as the ones that don't your case would be easilly disproved.

Well intelligence and studies have nothing to do.  Some of the biggest world terro***ts have studied in University and have high IQ....only problem is that they used their abilities for evil instead of good.
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I don't think the majority of religious people are bad people, but I do think that all religions are bad.

They are bad because they were created by man kind and is responsible for the 90% of world conflicts and divisions.   We are all the same species, all the same.....who created the barriers that separate us (cultural, race, colour, religion, etc.) man kind, not a supreme being that's for sure.  So yeah, what do you expect from man's creation which is not perfect. :D

Remove religion from the equation and all of a sudden you just resolved 90% of world conflicts, wars, etc.

You can still believe in a supreme being (God for all) without being religious or practicing any religion.

Intelligence and studies have much to do, true some horrible people have been geniouses even but still not the majority of geniouses do horrible things, I suspect that the higher intelect allows you to better examine and predict the outcome of your actions.

Thakns for correcting my spelling, sorry but my mother tongue is spanish not english and is one of those things that I teached myself  ;)

They are bad for other reasons too but I will not discuss them with you, I don't want another flame.

You can believe in a supreme being without being part of organized religion, but believing in a supreme being is the kind of definition of religious, and yes you don't have to practice any religion to be religious; I think.

Cheers and peace out.
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: Darkstar2 on July 18, 2014, 09:48:36 PM
Most likely yes, but even if science ends up saying we don't know, that's not a reason to jump and say aliens!

Not everyone is "jumping", only a certain group of people who are preaching alien beings and other stuff :P  However since ends up saying they don't know but that does not mean they can't entertain the possibility....  There is no proof of a God or aliens, but there is also no proof of the non existence and since humans are hard wired to only believe in what they see, I guess one can take the easy way and assume nothing exists, even if science cannot explain it. 

Do you know eds that the US spends billions of $ yearly in search for other life and other planets, whilst people are fucking dying and starving to death ?  Guess if that is not proof enough science is interested in finding out and entertaining the POSSIBILITY, then what more proof do you need...... I'm sure science knows MORE than it lets out, but keeps it classified for political and financial reasons and population control.  I do firmly believe we have cures for many diseases that currently cannot be cured, but some cures are being blocked. 

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There has never been a demonstrated case of someone having no brain activity (Brain death) and comming back to life,

Very wrong on that one, it is documented.

Clinically dead is no heart beat and no brain activity.  Not ALL cases report NDEs, but out of all the reported NDEs cases they all share the same thing in common.  Maybe medicine can explain the tunnel visions and lights, but they have yet to explain how people manage to see and hear above their body what is going on in the ER and other rooms.  That cannot be explained by chemical reactions or brain cells dying off / firing off at the time of death.

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Maybe because that exact experiences can and have been recreated in a lab by stimulating the right frontal lobe of the brain with magnetism, and the people see god, a tunel, a bright light, and even aliens, depending on their beliefs.

EXACTLY, good you have been doing your homework :D  They have recreated only PART of what people report from an NDE, but they have yet to recreate or explain how people managed to SEE and recall what was going on above their bodies, and the conversations / seeing across rooms.

As far as the recreation in a lab, this I believe is what's behind the theory that we have a "God" part of our brain responsible for our beliefs and the euphoria we feel/see at the moment of death as a coping mechanism to death.  But NDE is more than just tunnels and seeing lights, and those events can be recreated providing brain activity is present.  otherwise people are experiencing these at the flatline/brain dead stage as in absence of electrical activity and a hear beat you are clinically dead.

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How did life start? since the hypothesis of chemicals forming polymeres until those same polymers could replicated themselves hasn't been sufficiently investigated

Right, so what created those alleged chemical forming polymers ? :P  What created the creator ?  These are questions that we will never be able to answer.
But it's far easier for the human brain to process that NOTHING exists, we are the only one and everything outside us is void.....than process a bunch of theories.  The brain will always choose the easy path :P

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These two things are over 90% of the known universe, so we as a species know didly squat about 90% of the cosmos, and yet there's no reason to shout: The scientists dont know? God did it!

Well we can both agree that humans didn't create the black matter, stars, other planets, meteors and all that is happening in outerspace......So who the bloody hell did then ?  We can sit all nite and say that this does not mean a God exists, but then WHO/WHAT created this ?  It's hard for a human brain to grasp that something has always existed and never been "created".
So who created the sun ? who created the moon ?  BIG BANG ? So who created the big bang, and who created the thing that created the thing that lead to the alleged big bang ?
Who created the emptiness before all things started ?

HUMANS ??? :P

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the more we know about the universe the more small and unnecessary he becomes.

Really because unless proven otherwise we still don't have answers to most of the important things.  I mean all we hear from NASA is discovering new planets, new galaxies with gay names, and earth like planets....and they starting to claim we might not be alone....Gee thanks NASA, we pay you billions of $ to tell us something we already bloody knew :D  So if we are the only living beings in the entire space carrying universes and galaxies, what the hell is the purpose of other planets then ? Just for show ? So it was just a COINCIDENCE that 2 rocks collided and boom, a universe, galaxies, planets, life ???? :P
Science knows fuck all about this shite, it's all based on assumptions/speculations and seeking of proof, which they will never get or if they do they will keep it classified and lie to the population......as I think they are right now. :D

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Some people? In my humble opinion all organized religion is a scam (note the word organized? it means the institutions and their employes, not the believer)

That is in sync with what I was saying....But the "believers" are not part of this mess.  It's the way religion has been commercialised..... but I again, religion != God...  Religion is a creation of man kind and inherits its flaws with it.

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Documented by science? where? Child prodigys do exist, and so do savants (people with severe authism that are geniouses in some field without studying), but this doesn't prove god nor the aliens.

lol did not mention about Aliens....... But entertain the possibility we are more than just physical bodies and electrical impulses.
otherwise science cannot explain those child prodigies and people who seem to "know" without having learned.  What about people knowing stuff from regressive hypnosis they never could have possibly known.

I do believe there is more to it than physical bodies.  We are physical but we are also energy.  now don't attribute everything I say to God or Aliens :D 

There has been studies made where plants, flowers, etc, growing around an environment where love is present, to grow faster and healthier, whereas negative would have the opposite effect on plants.....etc.  In fact science is studying many different aspects but has yet to explain how certain mechanisms work.  Science claims we only use a % of our brain.  What about people who have amazing abilities, they might be using the rest or only a few % more, but what about the 70-80% not accounted for........This shows you that science has a long ways to go to fully explain the human body.

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People recovering from terminal illness, yes I know it does happen, you sure you want to make the case for god based in that?

No, I did not say that, but that we might not be alone and that there is something beyond our physical world and level of comprehension.   Might have nothing to do with a God or aliens......I did not imply that.
I do still believe in a God/Supreme creator but ALSO believe there is more to our physical bodies.  LIFE itself HAS to have some meaning, otherwise why the hell do we exist in the first place........ALL this for nothing ?

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Why doesn't he heal then all the babies and children? I'm sure their parents can be teached whatever important lesson in other less painful ways.

Good question.  Why can't we all love each other, why can't we NEVER have diseases, why can't we all sing and dance and party and never fight and all be happy on earth........  :P  Perhaps it would negate the purpose of life.  No answer to your question, why this and why that.......Why can't God stop the tornados and hurricanes, why can't God catch you if you decide to jump from the ledge :D Fuck if I knew, I dunno, and nobody will ever know.  if there was a God or supreme being, it would not run on dictatorship but allow free will and not intervene.  Should the definition of GOD = constant interventions ???  :P
That is RELIGION territory and that is where man kind carved religion and all the rubbish surrounding it, what you refer to a SCAM, which it is. :D

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FUNNY, now you are quoting scientific hypothesis (the multiverse, the permanent universe, panspermia, among others)

I was just messing with you I'd figure you'd enjoy that part..... I'm just as human as you are mate :D

As far as parallel universe, shadow universe, multi dimensions, etc to be honest I am on the fence about that .......I'd LOVE to entertain the possibility of me existing in parallel in different planes, experiencing a different outcome.......Note the word "entertain"..... So I might be eating a pizza on this earth and on some other dimension where I also exist, be eating a big hamburger.  :D Please note this has nothing to do with God or aliens now.  As far as aliens, again, on the fence on that one.
Where my beliefs are strong is that we are more than physical bodies and that all this space containing life form and energy has a creator. :P  Maybe Elvis did it !  ;D

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Warp holes, if I understood that book about quantum physics correctly, are indeed possible, not sure how likely but possible yes.

Sorry I meant black holes.  Everything around it is sucked in, but where does it go to, does it just disintegrate ? 

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Time travel is possible, yes science tells us that, it's only impraticable by us in the current state of our knowledge,

One thing that is puzzling to me, what we call "TIME" again is something man made, as there is no "TIME" as we know it so could this explain that past-present-future exists simultaneously hence, explain why we can "travel" this "timeline" otherwise if time did exist, wouldn't that negate time travel as events have to come to pass in order to go back in time..... But that is good for another topic though..... These are the type of topics I really like to discuss. :D

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We are not alone... If you mean aliens do exist, yes is so probable that it's almost a certanty, do they visit earth? I don't think so:

They do, they are evil and they are what we call "politicians" lol!

So I see you studied quantum physics and astronomy that's good that you did your homework.   :P

Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 19, 2014, 12:02:34 AM

Not everyone is "jumping", only a certain group of people who are preaching alien beings and other stuff :P  However since ends up saying they don't know but that does not mean they can't entertain the possibility....  There is no proof of a God or aliens, but there is also no proof of the non existence and since humans are hard wired to only believe in what they see, I guess one can take the easy way and assume nothing exists, even if science cannot explain it. 

Actually, most of the scientific community would argue that the easy path, the one we always took before science, is to asume god did it. If you read about the god thing in our brains you'll see we are evolved and hardwired to assign agency (will, intent, etc.) to what we don't understand, when our ancestors evolved in the african planes it was safer to asume that if the leaves moved a predator was behind and jump to a tree or hide as you could than to do nothing, many times you'd jump and it would be nothing, but it takes only one time you don't jump and there is a predator for you to be eaten. So the evolutionary pressure was to assume intent and to act in consecuence, therefore we asigned intent and consciousnes to the sun, the storm, the thunder, the volcano and so on. Even now we asign intent to what we don't understand, that's why the majority of the people are still religious, or believe in ghosts, aliens and whatnot.  :)

Do you know eds that the US spends billions of $ yearly in search for other life and other planets, whilst people are fucking dying and starving to death ?  Guess if that is not proof enough science is interested in finding out and entertaining the POSSIBILITY, then what more proof do you need...... I'm sure science knows MORE than it lets out, but keeps it classified for political and financial reasons and population control.  I do firmly believe we have cures for many diseases that currently cannot be cured, but some cures are being blocked. 

NASA is investigating the possibility of life on other planets (or whoever runs SETI) yes, but they do not claim to have found it yet, nor do they say to have encounters with aliens be they green, gray or humanoid. The laboratories have cures they do not reveal? Possible and even probable, but do not confuse GlaxoSmithKline with the scientific community, they do research it's true but they are above all a bussines that has to answer to the board and pay dividends, and the people doing the research sign confidentiality clauses on their contracts. So corporations may hide something that may benefit some of the population but the scientific community does not. How do I know? Peer review, it's what keeps the scientists honest and it's what keeps the personal beliefs of one or the other out of the picture, add the fact that when you see other scientist's work you are not trying to prove him right, you are trying to prove him wrong; if it turns he is wrong science gains knowledge, they know how something doesn't work, and if he is right then they know how something most likely works, most likely because in the future we could find new facts, evidence that could prove him totally or partially wrong.  :)

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There has never been a demonstrated case of someone having no brain activity (Brain death) and comming back to life,

Very wrong on that one, it is documented.

Clinically dead is no heart beat and no brain activity.  Not ALL cases report NDEs, but out of all the reported NDEs cases they all share the same thing in common.  Maybe medicine can explain the tunnel visions and lights, but they have yet to explain how people manage to see and hear above their body what is going on in the ER and other rooms.  That cannot be explained by chemical reactions or brain cells dying off / firing off at the time of death.

Actually it's not, clinical death is when the heart stops and there is no beat and no respiration, brain death if it's not present at the same time (For instance most shots to the head are fatal, sometimes a swelling can cause brain death which in turns causes the heart to stop beating) ocurrs about 3 minutes after the heart stops beating. Sources:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinical_death
https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Clinical_death.html


EXACTLY, good you have been doing your homework :D  They have recreated only PART of what people report from an NDE, but they have yet to recreate or explain how people managed to SEE and recall what was going on above their bodies, and the conversations / seeing across rooms.

As far as the recreation in a lab, this I believe is what's behind the theory that we have a "God" part of our brain responsible for our beliefs and the euphoria we feel/see at the moment of death as a coping mechanism to death.  But NDE is more than just tunnels and seeing lights, and those events can be recreated providing brain activity is present.  otherwise people are experiencing these at the flatline/brain dead stage as in absence of electrical activity and a hear beat you are clinically dead.

See the prior answer.


Right, so what created those alleged chemical forming polymers ? :P  What created the creator ?  These are questions that we will never be able to answer.
But it's far easier for the human brain to process that NOTHING exists, we are the only one and everything outside us is void.....than process a bunch of theories.  The brain will always choose the easy path :P

What created those chemicals? The Sun, well the sun and other stars create those chemicals by fussion, what we don't know is how the organic compounds (organic means carbon based only) got together and formed autoreplicating polymers, the precursors of ARN which in turn is the precursor of ADN, but once you have those (And we do know somehow, somewhere they formed) evolution takes place and results in ever more addapted polymers until you have the first cell, and from there possibly more complex life forms. You must remember evolutions is blind, it doesn't have a goal it just is.

EDIT 4: The organic compunds form spontaneously if the right chemicals are present, since we know somewhere, somehow they formed we have to infer the right chemicals and the right conditions.

As to what created the creator, well you see... that presuposes the existence of a creator, and since there is no evidence of one...  :)


Well we can both agree that humans didn't create the black matter, stars, other planets, meteors and all that is happening in outerspace......So who the bloody hell did then ?  We can sit all nite and say that this does not mean a God exists, but then WHO/WHAT created this ?  It's hard for a human brain to grasp that something has always existed and never been "created".
So who created the sun ? who created the moon ?  BIG BANG ? So who created the big bang, and who created the thing that created the thing that lead to the alleged big bang ?
Who created the emptiness before all things started ?

HUMANS ??? :P

Who created the universe or who created the bigbang presupones a creator and therefore is a loaded question.

The emptiness? What emptiness? Science doesn't say that there was a moment when there was nothing, the BigBang postulates a singularity but now scientists don't think so, they say it would be impossible, but since we don't have the equipment to see beyond the first seconds after the BigBang the question of what happened, how and if there was something, and what it was, must remain (for now) unaswered.


Really because unless proven otherwise we still don't have answers to most of the important things.  I mean all we hear from NASA is discovering new planets, new galaxies with gay names, and earth like planets....and they starting to claim we might not be alone....Gee thanks NASA, we pay you billions of $ to tell us something we already bloody knew :D  So if we are the only living beings in the entire space carrying universes and galaxies, what the hell is the purpose of other planets then ? Just for show ? So it was just a COINCIDENCE that 2 rocks collided and boom, a universe, galaxies, planets, life ???? :P
Science knows fuck all about this shite, it's all based on assumptions/speculations and seeking of proof, which they will never get or if they do they will keep it classified and lie to the population......as I think they are right now. :D

You see in science you don't go and say: An invisible Pink Unicorn created the Dark Matter, now disprove it. You take the evidence, the known facts about something and then postulate a hypothesis trying to explain some phenomenon, your hypothesis not only has to explain it, it has to make scientific predictions about it under different circumstances, and then you go and see if your predictions are true, if they are not you don't throw your arms up and say The Pink Unicorn did it, you go back to the drawing board and modify your hypothesis to adjust it to the new evidence or even postulate a completely new hypothesis. If the phenomenon is relatively small and if/when your hypothesis has been under peer review and hasn't been disproved then you get a law, when you try to explain several laws of a same field your hypothesis, if confirmed becomes a Theory.

Scientists do not hide the facts, nor do they hold to some hypothesis because they like it, peer review prevents it, you are saying that everybody in the scientific community is BFF with everybody and are willing to lie and lose the possible Nobel Prize $$$ they would win if they could prove God is real, or evolution is false, or Leprechauns do exist.

The person that first encounters an alien, or confirms the existence of inteligent life on other planets will become famous and rich, scientists have big egos, and big egos like to be told how great they are, so, even if you forget the money, that hypothesis is highly unlikely. Remeber that they are in a fierce competition with everybody in their field to be the first, the best; and every year new scientists join the community, what they are in the conspiracy too?  :)


That is in sync with what I was saying....But the "believers" are not part of this mess.  It's the way religion has been commercialised..... but I again, religion != God...  Religion is a creation of man kind and inherits its flaws with it.

I agree with you almost a 100%, sorry but Religion does equal God, no god no religion, no religion no god (In broad terms of course)


lol did not mention about Aliens....... But entertain the possibility we are more than just physical bodies and electrical impulses.
otherwise science cannot explain those child prodigies and people who seem to "know" without having learned.  What about people knowing stuff from regressive hypnosis they never could have possibly known.

I do believe there is more to it than physical bodies.  We are physical but we are also energy.  now don't attribute everything I say to God or Aliens :D 

There has been studies made where plants, flowers, etc, growing around an environment where love is present, to grow faster and healthier, whereas negative would have the opposite effect on plants.....etc.  In fact science is studying many different aspects but has yet to explain how certain mechanisms work.  Science claims we only use a % of our brain.  What about people who have amazing abilities, they might be using the rest or only a few % more, but what about the 70-80% not accounted for........This shows you that science has a long ways to go to fully explain the human body.

Yes living beings have feelings and these feelings do affect their health, Prodigys and savants? Don't know how they get the way they are, notice I'm not saying God didn't made them, I'm saying I don't know, if scientists do know I'm unaware of it, if they don't they will tell you the same thing, I don't know. And that's a good thing, if they said I don't know must've been god science would stop working, and if science stops working then you can say good bye to any technical or scientific progress, so the next new virus could verywell wipeout the human race.

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People recovering from terminal illness, yes I know it does happen, you sure you want to make the case for god based in that?

No, I did not say that, but that we might not be alone and that there is something beyond our physical world and level of comprehension.   Might have nothing to do with a God or aliens......I did not imply that.
I do still believe in a God/Supreme creator but ALSO believe there is more to our physical bodies.  LIFE itself HAS to have some meaning, otherwise why the hell do we exist in the first place........ALL this for nothing ?

My life has meaning, maybe more now than when I believed in the afterlife, you see, I believe my time is finite, so I try not to waste a single nanosecond of it.

God could very well exist, I dont think so but he could, and that fact would not give my life more or less meaning, before being able to love someone you must love yourself, before being able to be happy with someone else you must be happy, so my advice is search your meaning inside yourself and not outside (Don't throw away your faith if you don't want to), that kind of pourpose and meaning is something nobody can take away from you.

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Why doesn't he heal then all the babies and children? I'm sure their parents can be teached whatever important lesson in other less painful ways.

Good question.  Why can't we all love each other, why can't we NEVER have diseases, why can't we all sing and dance and party and never fight and all be happy on earth........  :P  Perhaps it would negate the purpose of life.  No answer to your question, why this and why that.......Why can't God stop the tornados and hurricanes, why can't God catch you if you decide to jump from the ledge :D Fuck if I knew, I dunno, and nobody will ever know.  if there was a God or supreme being, it would not run on dictatorship but allow free will and not intervene.  Should the definition of GOD = constant interventions ???  :P
That is RELIGION territory and that is where man kind carved religion and all the rubbish surrounding it, what you refer to a SCAM, which it is. :D

When I prayed for faith with tears in my eyes, would he rob me of my free will by answering? Was not I asking him? Was not I choosing, to hear him? If he saved the babies and children whose free will would he infringe upon? Do the babies and children choose to die? From horrible, long and painful diseases? If it were in your power would you allow a single babie or children to suffer? To be raped?, To be turned in a sobing mass of pain?

And if you did prevent all that suffering would you be more moral or less moral than me that having the same capability choose not to?

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FUNNY, now you are quoting scientific hypothesis (the multiverse, the permanent universe, panspermia, among others)

I was just messing with you I'd figure you'd enjoy that part..... I'm just as human as you are mate :D

As far as parallel universe, shadow universe, multi dimensions, etc to be honest I am on the fence about that .......I'd LOVE to entertain the possibility of me existing in parallel in different planes, experiencing a different outcome.......Note the word "entertain"..... So I might be eating a pizza on this earth and on some other dimension where I also exist, be eating a big hamburger.  :D Please note this has nothing to do with God or aliens now.  As far as aliens, again, on the fence on that one.
Where my beliefs are strong is that we are more than physical bodies and that all this space containing life form and energy has a creator. :P  Maybe Elvis did it !  ;D

Well there have been people claiming that Elvis is alive since forever!  ;)

Quote
Warp holes, if I understood that book about quantum physics correctly, are indeed possible, not sure how likely but possible yes.

Sorry I meant black holes.  Everything around it is sucked in, but where does it go to, does it just disintegrate ? 

I thought you meant Worm Holes (Supossed to conect two distant points by warping space/time)

Black Holes mmm?  Did you know they dissintegrate? It's called evaporation, don't know why, maybe they are the ones making the dark matter and dark energy? maybe they in some point explode into another universe? (That is one on many scientific hypothesis right now)

Quote
Time travel is possible, yes science tells us that, it's only impraticable by us in the current state of our knowledge,

One thing that is puzzling to me, what we call "TIME" again is something man made, as there is no "TIME" as we know it so could this explain that past-present-future exists simultaneously hence, explain why we can "travel" this "timeline" otherwise if time did exist, wouldn't that negate time travel as events have to come to pass in order to go back in time..... But that is good for another topic though..... These are the type of topics I really like to discuss. :D

I think that in that both are wee beyond our grasp don't you?

Quote
We are not alone... If you mean aliens do exist, yes is so probable that it's almost a certanty, do they visit earth? I don't think so:

They do, they are evil and they are what we call "politicians" lol!

So I see you studied quantum physics and astronomy that's good that you did your homework.   :P

Damn! I knew it! and they do have their base in Rosswel!    ;D


EDIT: I didn't study quantum physics, I read a book for the uneducated masses about it  :D

EDIT 2: Had to erase my comments quoted by you so as to be able to correct some mistakes (2000 character limit)

EDIT3: To process nothing is easier? Then how do you explain that only two or three cultures managed to come up with the concept of zero in math?
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: time-killer-games on July 19, 2014, 12:08:10 AM
ExDeus I found the opposite correlation. Every Christian family I know has tons of money they travel the world on vacation in famous places all the time. That money doesn't just fall out of their armpits it's rooted by their jobs, hard work, and education. Public schools are filled with swarms of atheists that don't want anything but to get drunk and smoke pot and all that shit rather than get a serious education. Passing just barely. The grading system in american public schools are fucked. Dumb as hell. Where as I've been kicked out of numerous private schools because it was too much work and quite frankly a group of people who were generally a lot smarter than me. Didn't have that problem at all in public school.

The only thing I care about and agree with in religion is not being selfish, push your limits, and actually accomplish something to be proud of before you push up daisies. Most people with no standards or book so to speak to go by don't have much room for living a productive life. All you'd ever care about with that mindset is beer, drugs and 40 women fucking you all at once. It's like nothing else matters. The only atheists that I'm aware that care about science like at all are those people on TV, Discovery Channel, Animal Planet, etc but other than myself I've never met an atheist like that in person. I personally find it humiliating to the community. Celebrities make money not on education, but "acting school" which isn't the same thing. That would explain their stupid choice in investments. (drugs, etc). It makes me want to throw up. I'm desperate to meet more atheists that are like-minded with me in these regards. You know, like actually caring to do something beneficial for the human race at any level possible.

Does anyone here know Second Reality from the GMC? He's the kind of friend I could be super close with if only we lived anywhere near each other. He's an atheist but he actually cares to do things that can benefit other people. He's so awesome. I need a friend like that I know in person. It really sucks. Like really bad. I want to let go my christian friends sooner or later. But all that's left are the atheists in my neighborhood who hate my guts for damning them to hell. Almost forgot, Robert is another great example of an unselfish friend. You're awesome Robby!! :D

I'm just gonna stop complaining about my lack of non-cyber friends right now.
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 19, 2014, 12:46:10 AM
ExDeus I found the opposite correlation. Every Christian family I know has tons of money they travel the world on vacation in famous places all the time. That money doesn't just fall out of their armpits it's rooted by their jobs, hard work, and education. Public schools are filled with swarms of atheists that don't want anything but to get drunk and smoke pot and all that shit rather than get a serious education. Passing just barely. The grading system in american public schools are fucked. Dumb as hell. Where as I've been kicked out of numerous private schools because it was too much work and quite frankly a group of people who were generally a lot smarter than me. Didn't have that problem at all in public school.

Sources for your study? Or what you say is from personal experience only? Yes Ted Haggard made a ton of money, very smart, and also worked hard pulling wool over the gullible's eyes, so what? Yes some atheists do smoke pot and drink as if there were no tomorrow, but in order to take something out of the anecdotic and turn it into a statistic you need to walk the walk, in other words you need time, money and hard work collecting data all over the place, without prejudice and then see what the data tells you.

The only thing I care about and agree with in religion is not being selfish, push your limits, and actually accomplish something to be proud of before you push up daisies. Most people with no standards or book so to speak to go by don't have much room for living a productive life. All you'd ever care about with that mindset is beer, drugs and 40 women fucking you all at once. It's like nothing else matters. The only atheists that I'm aware that care about science like at all are those people on TV, Discovery Channel, Animal Planet, etc but other than myself I've never met an atheist like that in person. I personally find it humiliating to the community. Celebrities make money not on education, but "acting school" which isn't the same thing. That would explain their stupid choice in investments. (drugs, etc). It makes me want to throw up. I'm desperate to meet more atheists that are like-minded with me in these regards. You know, like actually caring to do something beneficial for the human race at any level possible.

Well I haven't met personally (that I know) another atheist (I assume you don't count me or TheExDeus since we have never meet eye to eye so to speak) but them are fighthing words man.

First of all, if you admit that you don't know enough atheists as to make a significant sample, even if you do know how to make the statistics, you can't claim that most are cheating, stealing, rapist, pedophile, drug addicts, drunkards in all honestity, can you?

Seccond, most celebrities are religious, and some even buy their koolaid from the Scientologysts  :o

Third, would you like to know some atheists? it's easy search and go to a metting, most groups in the USA hold weekly mettings, get to know some before speaking about them.

Fourth, what you say postulates that we do need the book for our morals, if you read it you'll see it's chock full of inmorality, not only by the villians or the heroes, but by god hisself. What with all the raping, incest, mass murder, slavery, gay bashing shit it's in there, you still believe you need a book that says you should be stoned to death for not believing in Jesus? And guess what? Is Jesus hisself who supossedly says that!

Does anyone here know Second Reality from the GMC? He's the kind of friend I could be super close with if only we lived anywhere near each other. He's an atheist but he actually cares to do things that can benefit other people. He's so awesome. I need a friend like that I know in person. It really sucks. Like really bad. I want to let go my christian friends sooner or later. But all that's left are the atheists in my neighborhood who hate my guts for damning them to hell. Almost forgot, Robert is another great example of an unselfish friend. You're awesome Robby!! :D

I'm just gonna stop complaining about my lack of friends right now.

No I don't know him, I can only hope he doesn't also believe that atheist=amoral, bastard...  :o
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: time-killer-games on July 19, 2014, 10:20:52 AM
Edsquare you misunderstand me. It's a matter of coincidence because it's completely based on my experience. If I moved to another state or country I won't deny every environment is different. I was just complaining on how it just so happens to be where I live. Also now that I think of it you're right, Justin Beiber, Miley Cyrus, Selena Gomez, etc are all Christians but they are extremely fucked up in the head. I need to be not so quick to make invalid assumptions.

Also it's hard finding other Atheists because I'm afraid of people in general. I've been rejected by like everyone in every school I've gone to. Public/private doesn't matter I've been to plenty of both and everyone hates me. Edsquare you seem to be a real friend I really appreciate talking with you it encourages me to connect in more social events. I've been talking about these things in counceling and the doctor pretty much suggests the same thing you did, Eds, he mentioned this website called "meet up" ( www.meetup.com ) where you can meet people in your area you know you'll like and make plans to hang out. I like this one a lot I'm gonna have to check it out: http://www.meetup.com/Godless-and-Proud-Atheists-Anti-theists-Apostates/

I have a strange feeling Harri doesn't like me. I don't know why. <awkward silence>
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 19, 2014, 12:28:54 PM
Edsquare you misunderstand me. It's a matter of coincidence because it's completely based on my experience. If I moved to another state or country I won't deny every environment is different. I was just complaining on how it just so happens to be where I live. Also now that I think of it you're right, Justin Beiber, Miley Cyrus, Selena Gomez, etc are all Christians but they are extremely fucked up in the head. I need to be not so quick to make invalid assumptions.

And don't generalize the other way around, not all christians are lying hypocrits, most are true believers who happen to believe despite the evidence, but that doesn't make them bad people, it only makes them missguided and deluded.

Have you seen me talk about the historical monsters that happen to be christians? No, because although they were both christians and complete amoral psychotic/sociopathic monsters, it doesn't make everyone that shares that belief a monster, it only proves that you can use religion to make good people do bad things.

Don't jump to the conclusion/assumption, first investigate and find out if your data is correct, find out from several sources, preferably neutral ones, then you can make an educated guess; and always make sure to frase carefully so as not to be missunderstood.  ;)

Also it's hard finding other Atheists because I'm afraid of people in general. I've been rejected by like everyone in every school I've gone to. Public/private doesn't matter I've been to plenty of both and everyone hates me. Edsquare you seem to be a real friend I really appreciate talking with you it encourages me to connect in more social events. I've been talking about these things in counceling and the doctor pretty much suggests the same thing you did, Eds, he mentioned this website called "meet up" ( www.meetup.com ) where you can meet people in your area you know you'll like and make plans to hang out. I like this one a lot I'm gonna have to check it out: http://www.meetup.com/Godless-and-Proud-Atheists-Anti-theists-Apostates/

Let me guess they mock you, reject you, call you names, and in general they are just gigantic dicks, Am I right?

Been there done that, search for a support group outside school if need be, but I suspect not everybody in school is the same, I think you could make friends among the other castouts; why would you want to hang out with pricks, cunts and dicks? Better to hang out with nonjudgmental people than with the popular kids just because they are popular.  ;)

I have a strange feeling Harri doesn't like me. I don't know why. <awkward silence>

What? I think you're wrong, but then again I could be wrong. Lets supose he doesn't like you, so what? fuck anybody that makes you feel akward, rejected and bad about yourself just because you are as you are, FUCK THEM!  :D
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: time-killer-games on July 19, 2014, 12:39:55 PM
That's right ExDeus you harri penis FUCK YOU! jk jk
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 19, 2014, 12:51:24 PM
That's right ExDeus you harri penis FUCK YOU! jk jk

Was that necessary? Or was it a joke?
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: time-killer-games on July 19, 2014, 01:00:29 PM
jk = just kidding. You basically told him the same thing in your post so I figured why not? :P
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 19, 2014, 01:24:55 PM
jk = just kidding. You basically told him the same thing in your post so I figured why not? :P

I told who what?

I did not tell anything to anybody, read carefully:
Quote
What? I think you're wrong, but then again I could be wrong. Lets supose he doesn't like you, so what? fuck anybody that makes you feel akward, rejected and bad about yourself just because you are as you are, FUCK THEM!

What I said is if someone makes you feel bad about yourself fuck them, but I didn't said fuck you to anybody...  :o
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: Darkstar2 on July 19, 2014, 01:42:45 PM
I think TKG nailed it sort of, I too have had the same experiences, most atheists I have seen just fuck around, drink, have no morals, disrespect authority, others, etc.  YET again TKG gave good examples of Christians who are fucked up seriously, and the name he gave are PERFECT examples, especially one of them amongst the names he mentioned :P  That's where you draw the line between believer and practicing Christian, I mean there are probably just as many believers who are sinning 24/7.  Though I have seen a trend of more promiscuity amongst atheists and bloody fucking drunks and violent tosspots. 

So as far as Christians who rape, cheat, lie, fuck around, etc, are they really Christians or are they dictated to be by their parents ???
You see that's the problem people are raised with religion so you use this as a guide, then you grow up and rebel...... That's the shite that happens when you dictate your life based on forced religion !

YET you might have some non religious people NOT fuck around with dem howes, drink up etc, because they know that's best, NOT because they are of a given religion.

So you have a division.

A group of SO CALLED religious/believing people being dangling pricks.

AND

Non religious/non believing people being equally dangling pricks.

YET in my experience I have seen more of a trend amongst non believers but yet I know better not to rely on such small sample and I'm sure it is pretty much divided, as human race flaws does not discriminate, no matter what fucked up the arse religion we are, we all share the same design and attribute flaws.

Now let's push this even further, how many so-called Catholics out there are non sinners, by the book......I think we could count them on our hands ......
NOW take any other religion, Buddhism, Judaism, Islamic, etc.etc... how many people in each group abide 100% by their rules.........Not much, how many people in a given religious practice their religion ? Again I would bet some money, not much.
I'd say now far less than before, times are changing.  People seem more open to believing something is out there than actually following a religion and "rules".

Some of the most promiscuous fuckers and drinkers of society were once Christians !
There again you have the opposite born again Christians.

So religion can be a bad and I'd even go as far as saying good for some.......
Especially those people who took wrong path in their lives and caused harm to themselves and others who one day are reborn Christians or whatever shite they decided to believe in......if it sets them on a right path and lead a good life, then so be it, all the better for them.

So religion can be a doubled edged sword.

A PERFECT example of people claiming to be religious but not knowing FUCK ALL about any of it, is this lady colleague whom I used to work for, she bragged that she was raised in Church, hardcore Christian all the way yet she was the most disgusting, rude bloody CUNT of an employee, promiscuous hoe bag, defying authority, disrespecting everyone in the office.........Christian my arse........I almost once called her out and wanted to ask what the bloody fuck kind of fucked up the arse Christian are you BITCH ??? But I didn't........ This goes perfectly with what TKG was saying citing examples......
YET.......there were some atheists who were calm, respectful...... WHY because they were raised to know better......... RAISED by the parents.....not by religion.

So in the end you have 50/50 I think.
No discrimination - You will see this trend across all races, cultures and religions.

Now maybe the fact TKG and I are seeing this trend more prominent with atheists might be a coincidence......
One thing for sure, people make babies now like flat bread !!!  It's so easy and pleasurable to FUCK and out comes the baby from the person you barely knew, that you fucked after a one nite stand or in a crack house...... Out of all the new born in this fucked up planet we live on, what % do you think was planned ? What % of those new born come from parents FIT to raise said child ?  I'd gamble and say the majority of babies put in this world were accidents from one nite fucks, or because the 2 bitches didn't wear the rubber when they were shagging each other after a hot nite out.  Result they put up babies in the world they can't properly raise, and some of those parents can be religious too.......So it's all in how you are raised and your own values..... This is why I am a strong supporter of abortion, under such circumstances.....instead of people making babies they are going to raise like shite.

If religion is suffice to keep some people in check, all the better, UNFORTUNATELY in 2014, religion is used mostly for evil and scam! if people are not aware of this, look at the news !!! 

One thing I disagree - wanking is a sin, pleasure is a sin......... If that was a sin then why did God make it pleasurable to blow your load.  So to me religion has flaws, and since it is man kind's creation, it is just as flawed.

But we all have free will (and free willies :D) ok the non english might not understand this part but never mind!

It's OUR own choice to be dicks or to NOT be, not God.

God is not a dictatorship.

Religion is man made, and therefore rules can be bent (just like the prostitutes these same Christians shag on a daily basis!).

@TKG: You are on the money !

@Ed: Are you MENSA ?  I mean with 180IQ,you are in the extreme rarity nowadays.

@Eds: I understood perfectly what you said to TKG, and it's true, don't let people put you down about yourself, fuck them, in the sense just channel them out.  HOWEVER, keep in mind some individuals have shite magnets and seem to be rejected by a large number of people.......so it's kinda hard to channel out ....er.......EVERYBODY.

Some people get along with anybody no matter how much of a pendejo they are ! and some people for odd reasons seem to attract only the bad people....I call those shite magnets.  How do I know ? Cuz I'm a shite magnet lol!

La belleza es subjetiva..... Algunas personas atraen la mierda.  :P

You will discover more and more why I think there is  a force controlling our lives, and that we are more than physical bodies.
Some people are nice and innocent and are part of the shite attractors, regardless of where they go, yet you have the most evil people get along with everyone.

Same for the music industry - again citing TKG's names he used as example, these people he mentioned are ZERO talent, arrogant, self centered *****..... in my opinion :D   So it's all about popularity right ?  YET some people with amazing talent are unheard of and just struggle.

So I'm hoping that after all this there is reward in the end...that this whole life was not for nothing ........ :D

Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: time-killer-games on July 19, 2014, 01:51:29 PM
Okay I misread.
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 19, 2014, 02:35:51 PM
I think TKG nailed it sort of, I too have had the same experiences, most atheists I have seen just fuck around, drink, have no morals, disrespect authority, others, etc.  YET again TKG gave good examples of Christians who are fucked up seriously, and the name he gave are PERFECT examples, especially one of them amongst the names he mentioned :P  That's where you draw the line between believer and practicing Christian, I mean there are probably just as many believers who are sinning 24/7.  Though I have seen a trend of more promiscuity amongst atheists and bloody fucking drunks and violent tosspots. 

Sinning... what is sin? what the bible tells us? then everytime I work on sunday, or saturday or thursday I should be stoned to death, and not only I sin but everybody who doesn't stone me to death sins too.  ;D

Believer and practicing christian, you mean like the pedophile priests?

So as far as Christians who rape, cheat, lie, fuck around, etc, are they really Christians or are they dictated to be by their parents ???
You see that's the problem people are raised with religion so you use this as a guide, then you grow up and rebel...... That's the shite that happens when you dictate your life based on forced religion !

YET you might have some non religious people NOT fuck around with dem howes, drink up etc, because they know that's best, NOT because they are of a given religion.

So you have a division.

A group of SO CALLED religious/believing people being dangling pricks.

AND

Non religious/non believing people being equally dangling pricks.

So in short, anybody who is a prick isn't a true believer but a secret atheist? Give me a break! You can't be serious!

And I guess they are really atheists although they are pastors, ministers, priests and/or proud to shout to everybody how much of a believer they are...  :o

YET in my experience I have seen more of a trend amongst non believers but yet I know better not to rely on such small sample and I'm sure it is pretty much divided, as human race flaws does not discriminate, no matter what fucked up the arse religion we are, we all share the same design and attribute flaws.

Now let's push this even further, how many so-called Catholics out there are non sinners, by the book......I think we could count them on our hands ......
NOW take any other religion, Buddhism, Judaism, Islamic, etc.etc... how many people in each group abide 100% by their rules.........Not much, how many people in a given religious practice their religion ? Again I would bet some money, not much.
I'd say now far less than before, times are changing.  People seem more open to believing something is out there than actually following a religion and "rules".

Some of the most promiscuous fuckers and drinkers of society were once Christians !
There again you have the opposite born again Christians.

Like Ted Haggard? Born again twice?

So religion can be a bad and I'd even go as far as saying good for some.......
Especially those people who took wrong path in their lives and caused harm to themselves and others who one day are reborn Christians or whatever shite they decided to believe in......if it sets them on a right path and lead a good life, then so be it, all the better for them.

So religion can be a doubled edged sword.

A PERFECT example of people claiming to be religious but not knowing FUCK ALL about any of it, is this lady colleague whom I used to work for, she bragged that she was raised in Church, hardcore Christian all the way yet she was the most disgusting, rude bloody CUNT of an employee, promiscuous hoe bag, defying authority, disrespecting everyone in the office.........Christian my arse........I almost once called her out and wanted to ask what the bloody fuck kind of fucked up the arse Christian are you BITCH ??? But I didn't........ This goes perfectly with what TKG was saying citing examples......
YET.......there were some atheists who were calm, respectful...... WHY because they were raised to know better......... RAISED by the parents.....not by religion.

So in the end you have 50/50 I think.
No discrimination - You will see this trend across all races, cultures and religions.

Now maybe the fact TKG and I are seeing this trend more prominent with atheists might be a coincidence......
One thing for sure, people make babies now like flat bread !!!  It's so easy and pleasurable to FUCK and out comes the baby from the person you barely knew, that you fucked after a one nite stand or in a crack house...... Out of all the new born in this fucked up planet we live on, what % do you think was planned ? What % of those new born come from parents FIT to raise said child ?  I'd gamble and say the majority of babies put in this world were accidents from one nite fucks, or because the 2 bitches didn't wear the rubber when they were shagging each other after a hot nite out.  Result they put up babies in the world they can't properly raise, and some of those parents can be religious too.......So it's all in how you are raised and your own values..... This is why I am a strong supporter of abortion, under such circumstances.....instead of people making babies they are going to raise like shite.

If religion is suffice to keep some people in check, all the better, UNFORTUNATELY in 2014, religion is used mostly for evil and scam! if people are not aware of this, look at the news !!! 

One thing I disagree - wanking is a sin, pleasure is a sin......... If that was a sin then why did God make it pleasurable to blow your load.  So to me religion has flaws, and since it is man kind's creation, it is just as flawed.

But we all have free will (and free willies :D) ok the non english might not understand this part but never mind!

It's OUR own choice to be dicks or to NOT be, not God.

God is not a dictatorship.

Religion is man made, and therefore rules can be bent (just like the prostitutes these same Christians shag on a daily basis!).

@TKG: You are on the money !

@Ed: Are you MENSA ?  I mean with 180IQ,you are in the extreme rarity nowadays.

@Eds: I understood perfectly what you said to TKG, and it's true, don't let people put you down about yourself, fuck them, in the sense just channel them out.  HOWEVER, keep in mind some individuals have shite magnets and seem to be rejected by a large number of people.......so it's kinda hard to channel out ....er.......EVERYBODY.

Some people get along with anybody no matter how much of a pendejo they are ! and some people for odd reasons seem to attract only the bad people....I call those shite magnets.  How do I know ? Cuz I'm a shite magnet lol!

La belleza es subjetiva..... Algunas personas atraen la mierda.  :P

You will discover more and more why I think there is  a force controlling our lives, and that we are more than physical bodies.
Some people are nice and innocent and are part of the shite attractors, regardless of where they go, yet you have the most evil people get along with everyone.

Same for the music industry - again citing TKG's names he used as example, these people he mentioned are ZERO talent, arrogant, self centered *****..... in my opinion :D   So it's all about popularity right ?  YET some people with amazing talent are unheard of and just struggle.

So I'm hoping that after all this there is reward in the end...that this whole life was not for nothing ........ :D

So basically you are saying that any self proclaimed believer who happens to be a dick is in reality an atheist and that since they are atheists, and some atheist do have a different standard about moral than you (drinking, drugs, promiscuity) then all or most of atheists are dicks, cunts and m***erf***ers?

This is something that truly bugs me about religious people, they always say but you see he/she is not a true believer, even when that person is following to the letter the same book the one doing the discalification claims to follow.

Now if you are a jain I apologize, I wish every religious person converted to that religion.
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: time-killer-games on July 19, 2014, 03:03:29 PM
When I made that comment about drugs and alchohol I personally don't find it wrong to do those things but I personally don't do them nor do I recomend them to anyone (unless it's medical marijana as sometimes it could mean saving a person's life). I just like to play it extra safe an not take big risks. You have no way of knowing you'll become a lifeless severely-addicted alchoholic / vegetable until you've already tried it and it's too late, and that to me is enough reason to not experiement with it. I know it isn't garenteed, but it's a real risk. I know people won't agree with me, it doesn't mean their 'sinning' just because they disagree with me.
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 19, 2014, 03:11:51 PM
When I made that comment about drugs and alchohol I personally don't find it wrong to do those things but I personally don't do them nor do I recomend them to anyone (unless it's medical marijana as sometimes it could mean saving a person's life). I just like to play it extra safe an not take big risks. You have no way of knowing you'll become a lifeless severely-addicted alchoholic / vegetable until you've already tried it and it's too late, and that to me is enough reason to not experiement with it. I know it isn't garenteed, but it's a real risk. I know people won't agree with me, it doesn't mean their 'sinning' just because they disagree with me.

Exactly, I've never done any drug and yet I really think it should be legal to buy them and do them, we already allow two legal drugs (tobacco and alcohol).

Also drinking, or doing pot and being promiscuous is, in no way, equal to being a rapist pedophile, a murderer, a misoginistic/Misandryc motherfu**er. Sure you may find those in any walk of society but if I happen to be a huge dick I don't get to hide behind the bible and say that it's not misoginy or racism because the bible says so.

EDIT:
Enough about this, I wont be answering any religious post anymore, lets better talk about games, TKG & Darkstar2 would you be willing to help me/teach me how to do some things for my game?

In exchange I could help you with story/art with one of yours (TKG doesn't need help with the history, his games are weird enough without my help  ;) )
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: time-killer-games on July 19, 2014, 03:39:51 PM
My posts aren't religious. I was agreeing with you the whole time. Assuming you were only refering to darkstar I don't know why he insisted on saying drug addicts are worse people than child melostors. On a different topic this is the off topic subform so technically everything is allowed to be discussed here.  You can't stop darkstar he has to agree to. Me on the otherhand I'll shut up sorry for adding fluff to the discussion. PS my games are weird but in a creative, funny way, right?

Peace out homies.
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 19, 2014, 03:45:37 PM
My posts aren't religious. I was agreeing with you the whole time. Assuming you were only refering to darkstar I don't know why he insisted on saying drug addicts are worse people than child melostors. On a different topic this is the off topic subform so technically everything is allowed to be discussed here.  You can't stop darkstar he has to agree to. Me on the otherhand I'll shut up sorry for adding fluff to the discussion. PS my games are weird but in a creative, funny way, right?

Peace out homies.

It's not that the discussion is strictly out of place since the forum is offtopic but the discussion might drive some people away from enigma, so I wont answer any topic about it anymore, if anybody wants to talk about it with me we can do so by PM anytime.  :)

Yes your games are funny and very creative, not really weird but different from what most people do, but that is also a plus to me.

Peace out hommie :-P
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: Darkstar2 on July 19, 2014, 06:29:00 PM
Believer and practicing christian, you mean like the pedophile priests?

Not all priests are pedophiles  and not all priests are real Christians - they are pedophiles who decided to become priests for obvious reasons :P  There are pedophiles in every religion mind you, some at higher levels, but I won't go into that :D

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So in short, anybody who is a prick isn't a true believer but a secret atheist? Give me a break! You can't be serious!

If you bothered reading carefully you would see that I meant that there are pricks in the two groups, religious and non religious perhaps equally.  There is no such a thing as a secret atheist that is absurd, most atheists are open about not believing in God or ANYTHING.  Might not be the same for religious people, by fear of persecution, :P

Quote
So basically you are saying that any self proclaimed believer who happens to be a dick is in reality an atheist and that since they are atheists, and some atheist do have a different standard about moral than you (drinking, drugs, promiscuity) then all or most of atheists are dicks, cunts and m***erf***ers?

Nope you are taking everything out of context - I said I am sure there is an equal number of pricks on both sides of the pond, even though I too have seen more bad atheist, but I know that does not mean all of them, I ALSO but you failed to read because there might be an agenda, I ALSO admitted I have seen non atheists being real jerks too, so what's the damn problem ???  I'm trying to say that religion or one's belief is not the sole indicator of someone's character, there are just as much bloody imbeciles who are Christian believers than here are those in any other religion or those non believers. 
 
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Now if you are a jain I apologize, I wish every religious person converted to that religion.

See, I openly admit my beliefs but I don't try to ask people to convert to mine, and I don't appreciate people, especially atheists to tell me to stop believing or convert to another fucking gay religion, because I don't do that :D

I could give a fuck less about the cunts of priests or higher up fags who gave my so-called religion a bad name, that won't change my mind or change my beliefs, that would be like persecuting an entire race for the crimes of certain ones, that would be equally bad than saying a particular race is violence / crime prone.

To each their own, if some ****a across the street worships cotton candy and rocks, so be it, so long as the motherfucker doesn't bother me or try to change me, so be it, I respect that.

I have a feeling that in your case you probably have had an extremely traumatic experience, either in your childhood or as an adult in regards to religion, God, etc..... Not every believer or religious person is a raping pedophile or criminal.  There are probably just as much rapists and violent criminals who are non believers too.  You stopped believing for whatever reason, that's fine, nobody is judging you for that, I could care less really what religion people have or their beliefs, :P  BUT YET in 20-fucking-14 (2014) people still judge others based on skin colour, hair colour, sexual orientation and religion.

It almost makes me feel a shame to be part of this human race...... :D
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 19, 2014, 07:39:56 PM

Quote
Now if you are a jain I apologize, I wish every religious person converted to that religion.

See, I openly admit my beliefs but I don't try to ask people to convert to mine, and I don't appreciate people, especially atheists to tell me to stop believing or convert to another fucking gay religion, because I don't do that :D


Only to this will I answer, I don't want you to convert to any religion, if I were to start proselitizing it would be to de convert people out of every religion, but you see... the Jains are the only religion out there (that I know of) whose tenants can be taken to any extremism you want and still will not cause suffering to anybody (They believe only in non violence) the extremist among them cover their mouths and nostrils so as not to aspire an insect by accident and harm it.  :)

I have no agenda, it just pisses me off when people say some of what you said, my bad I should be in control of my reactions to outside influence.
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: Darkstar2 on July 19, 2014, 08:02:16 PM
Exactly, I've never done any drug and yet I really think it should be legal to buy them and do them, we already allow two legal drugs (tobacco and alcohol).

I have never done drugs either, I don't think it is right to do drugs.  WHY ? because not only you are putting your life in danger, but the life of others in danger !  I have seen and heard about many vicious violent crimes, in majority of the cases they are drug related. FUCK drugs.  I'm ok for its medical use, under a controlled environment, but allowing everyone to stone themselves, you can imagine what kind of society that makes.  People who have kids and want them to play outside or if you want to get out of the house you want to feel safe, not fear someone will kill you because they were under the influence of a drug and did not know what they were doing, then get away with it and plead insanity and avoid jail ! makes me fucking sick.

Also mate, alcohol is NOT drugs.  That would be comparing apples and oranges.  Sure alcohol can also be used wrong and you can take the life of someone through drunk driving, BUT.....DRUG is a bigger problem anyway, many people have screwed their lives from drugs and their brains.

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Also drinking, or doing pot and being promiscuous is, in no way, equal to being a rapist pedophile, a murderer, a

Nobody claimed otherwise.   However remove the drug cartel industry and you eliminated 95% world crimes.  Here, nearly 99% of crimes involve drug transaction gone wrong, money/drugs, there is always a connection drugs.

Anyhow if you got to know me in real life you'd see religion and God are the last topics I discuss, I only discussed this here since the topic was brought up by someone else, otherwise I have not discussed religion or God in ages.......:P

As far as games I am extremely busy and flooded, barely sleep.  I have too much on my plate, I have a few submissions I would like to do with LGM and ENIGMA, working on some native C++ application and projects I am writing straight in C++ and will use this in my projects/games directly and have them integrated to ENIGMA if accepted...
 and want to get some breather and really get into gaming and doing weird stuff too :D

Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: time-killer-games on July 19, 2014, 08:08:52 PM
Darkstar I love you man but he basically wanted you to stop and you're still not doing it. Chill bro.
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: Darkstar2 on July 19, 2014, 08:10:41 PM
Only to this will I answer, I don't want you to convert to any religion, if I were to start proselitizing it would be to de convert people out of every religion, but you see... the Jains are the only religion out there (that I know of) whose tenants can be taken to any extremism you want and still will not cause suffering to anybody (They believe only in non violence) the extremist among them cover their mouths and nostrils so as not to aspire an insect by accident and harm it.  :)

Never heard of this religion, but I don't have a 180 IQ either lol.  All I am is born Catholic and my entire family is catholic, and that's about it.....I USED to go to Church every sunday and pray the stone and wooden statues like the other hypocrites - I used to pray every nite before going to bed, I used to be more "practicing".  But as I grew up it's as though I distanced myself.... though never stopped believing, however, and oddly, I felt so much better in so many ways when I was more "religious" than I do now.......but that's another story, perhaps a lot of the scamery and hypocrisy and crap involved in my religion has not inspired me, I dunno, I think our creator is non discriminating, in other words it's one creator to all, and not one God per religion / race / culture.  Logically, if someone created the world, they made ALL of it, including all forms of human and life, not one God for each race, that to me would make no sense, however I respect those who believe otherwise, as apparently if one has to rely on religion there are probably 166 different Gods out there ! :D

Now I am very interested in topics of dreams, parallel universe, paranormal, physics, quantum physics, etc.... and that has NOTHING to do with God or religion, and I have an open mind, debating..... IN fact some of my future games might include some elements of that, traveling from one galaxy or universe to another, etc.

And by your 3D game I also reckon you too like such fields.......

I'd love to help but my skills with 3D are extremely limited........ :(

Though if you want to take your game to the next level, real time holographic projections, Alternate Reality, sensory realism, travel suits, time machines, etc, I'm your guy ! lol.
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 19, 2014, 08:16:15 PM
@Darkstar2:

I don't know diddly squat about games in 2D what makes you think I would know something about 3D games? the image I posted? it was going to be part of a game made with GameEditor, fake 3D, but in the end I didn't finished it, now if I ever get good enough with enigma maybe I will

Also already took two IQ tests, no I'm not 180 only 136 so no genious here man.

When I take Blasters game to the next level, real time holographic projections, Alternate Reality, sensory realism, travel suits, time machines, etc, I'll be sure to give you a call.  ;D
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: Darkstar2 on July 19, 2014, 08:17:46 PM
Darkstar I love you man but he basically wanted you to stop and you're still not doing it. Chill bro.

Did he ASK ?   Also don't put words in my mouth, I never said drugs and drunks are worse than pedophiles...... I said DRUGS are a big problem in society and majority of crimes committed evolve around organised crime industry and gangs, and you and him are smart enough to know that drugs is the center of those crimes.

Also I seem to recall that I did not start the religious debate / topic, in fact I have not discussed such topics in years, only responded since people here have open mind and smart.

He said he was not going to respond, he did not ASK me to stop.

This is a public forum where anything can be discussed.

I would like to remind the OP or anybody that if you don't want a topic to continue to be discussed LOCK IT.  At the bottom you will see an option LOCK TOPIC, only the topic starter can lock topics, and of course an administrator.

I've locked topics before because they were getting out of control.

The LOCKING topic feature is available to every member.  USE it....it's better than "ASKING" or "DEMANDING" that people stop..... :P

Also if people are offended and not open to debate, they should be careful the type of topics they open......This is just a general comment not aimed at anybody in particular......if you can't take the heat, don't start the fire.

On that note, cheers.

If only this long debate and flame only reinforces my beliefs .... thanks.

I too will not be responding to religious type posts in this topic.  Still open to discuss this with anybody who wishes, but don't start topics if you can't handle the discussion or
make it clear from the start what you want and don't want to discuss.

Whatever trauma you had as a child or an adult in relation to priests or religion I am sorry, you must have gone through something really serious I can feel it in your posts, maybe I'm wrong, but it's just an instinct.  I guess a forum might not be the place to discuss these things if they are sensitive in nature.

Peace out.


Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: Darkstar2 on July 19, 2014, 08:23:40 PM
@Darkstar2:

I don't know diddly squat about games in 2D what makes you think I would know something about 3D games? the image I posted? it was going to be part of a game made with GameEditor, fake 3D, but in the end I didn't finished it, now if I ever get good enough with enigma maybe I will

Also already took two IQ tests, no I'm not 180 only 136 so no genious here man.

When I take Blasters game to the next level, real time holographic projections, Alternate Reality, sensory realism, travel suits, time machines, etc, I'll be sure to give you a call.  ;D

If someone can help me find a time machine fairly inexpensive so I can fuck off to another planet or universe with life form that actually live in peace with one another and all equal I'd love that though, you can give me a call, if you find me such a time travel machine.
Where's Art Bell when you need him, LOL.
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 19, 2014, 09:34:56 PM
@Darkstar2:

I don't know diddly squat about games in 2D what makes you think I would know something about 3D games? the image I posted? it was going to be part of a game made with GameEditor, fake 3D, but in the end I didn't finished it, now if I ever get good enough with enigma maybe I will

Also already took two IQ tests, no I'm not 180 only 136 so no genious here man.

When I take Blasters game to the next level, real time holographic projections, Alternate Reality, sensory realism, travel suits, time machines, etc, I'll be sure to give you a call.  ;D

If someone can help me find a time machine fairly inexpensive so I can fuck off to another planet or universe with life form that actually live in peace with one another and all equal I'd love that though, you can give me a call, if you find me such a time travel machine.
Where's Art Bell when you need him, LOL.

Aren't you confussing this:

(http://www.hollywoodlostandfound.net/pictures/props/timemachine.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HA2HyctJR4o/TsTxtLbxpyI/AAAAAAAAABc/1olIkUsL8ko/s1600/time+machine.jpg)

(http://bttftimemachine.com/wp-content/uploads/yapb_cache/wm_bttf_time_machine_gullwings_open_day_front_house.6r5nm7d4fm884c4008o0cgw4w.bs5ta3qbusggw484oswskggs8.th.jpeg)

With this?:

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-AHDZn5Dgh40/T8tOh-uBE3I/AAAAAAAABX4/eF6Nav7H29M/s1600/the_tardis.jpg)
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: time-killer-games on July 19, 2014, 09:37:41 PM
OMG I LOVE DOCTOR WHO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20131030171025/tardis/images/7/79/Cassandra_closeup_The_End_of_the_World.jpg)
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 19, 2014, 09:48:06 PM
OMG I LOVE DOCTOR WHO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ME TOO!!

I'm planing on buying the whole seassons of the last four doctors, since I didn't get to see all episodes, it's in my opinion one of the most inteligent shows ever to be on tv. Along with the original Twilight Zone, The Avengers (The british guy with the umbrella and miss steed was it?), and the new Sherlock (Don't know if I like better the british or the USA version).
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: time-killer-games on July 19, 2014, 09:57:05 PM
I just started the 9th doctor on netflix (with the manikins and the episode after that with the skin lady) and got to say it's really interesting. I also really like sherlock I'm just really upset Moriarty died - really funny character (how Sherlock calls him a fag, the way he giggles and everything) then there's the fact sherlock fakes his death and doesn't tell watson until it's the perfect time to piss him off. I've been watching sherlock for a while now also on netflix.

(http://i.minus.com/ibtc6jShAMoNze.gif)

I like twilight zone but I've never really taken the time to see more of it. I've seen the episode withe the creepy gremlin on the jet's wing but that's about it. It's an interesting show however and I'll say it's definitely worth visiting again. :D
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 19, 2014, 10:26:20 PM
I just started the 9th doctor on netflix (with the manikins and the episode after that with the skin lady) and got to say it's really interesting. I also really like sherlock I'm just really upset Moriarty died - really funny character (how Sherlock calls him a fag, the way he giggles and everything) then there's the fact sherlock fakes his death and doesn't tell watson until it's the perfect time to piss him off. I've been watching sherlock for a while now also on netflix.

(http://i.minus.com/ibtc6jShAMoNze.gif)

I like twilight zone but I've never really taken the time to see more of it. I've seen the episode withe the creepy gremlin on the jet's wing but that's about it. It's an interesting show however and I'll say it's definitely worth visiting again. :D

See if you can find the twilight zone movie, really good and, at times, terrifying show.
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: time-killer-games on July 19, 2014, 10:42:59 PM
Will do, no doubt. My dad is a major fan so we'll probably watch that together. :D
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: TheExDeus on July 20, 2014, 08:28:03 AM
Damn this topic was busy. Won't elaborate on anything as it all stopped, but just wanted Darkstar to think more about what he is saying in terms of science. I already mentioned that if you asked something that science can explains now, but couldn't 400 years ago to one of the earliest scientists, he won't be able to answer. And the fact he isn't able to answer doesn't means science isn't able to answer. So if there is something science can't answer about brains right now, then how does that mean science can't answer it in general? And if I ask you - if in 50 years they can answer your questions regarding brains, then will you suddenly think science can answer everything that is answerable? I don't think so. You, just like many religious people today and in previous decades, cling to yet unexplained as cause for science to be wrong. Because not that science is wrong, but because they NEED it to be wrong. They NEED it to be wrong or lacking, because otherwise there is no room for belief. So it's not really anything to do with science, it's about ones own inability to let go of his/her own beliefs.

tkg - I have no problems with you or anyone else. I don't like when 90% of topics in ENIGMA is filled with useless profanity though, as it kind of discredits the project. But as I don't care about its popularity, then I don't care about the language used.
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: Darkstar2 on July 20, 2014, 11:54:54 AM
I honestly was going to stop discussing this, but since you felt the need to add in your venom and your clueless, bloody ignorant, highly inflammatory, derogatory remarks below, I just can't sit there and not defend everything in them, you just forced my hand....

You think you have me figured out ? what the bloody hell is this, am I on trial here or is this a discussion ? Why would anybody in their right mind open topics on religion and yet feel the need to persecute and attack everyone who has beliefs ?  Just because my religion and many religions have rapists, pedophiles and scammers in them does not give you the right to attack and label everyone in the same basket as I'm quite sure not EVERY pedophile / rapist / murderer is of a religion either.

You know nothing about me, and that goes for anybody else here.  I am not the one here who started the whole religious topics, I'm the first person who said it was not a good idea to discuss religion on open forums, as lot of context can be lost in the writing or interpreted differently, if you knew me for years, in person you'd NEVER have guessed that I did believe in anything :P

But I still took part in said discussion because I thought people had an open mind here, guess I was wrong......:P

Don't BLOODY dare call me religious, you know nothing about me.  You lot have a very disrespectful and arrogant stance against people with faith/beliefs, all labeling us into one group.  I already made it clear how I feel about religion.  I already made it clear that I am not even practicing my bloody religion or I wouldn't even be here arguing with you lot !  I don't go to church, haven't been in one in ages......... I'm the WORST of the worst examples of a religious person, so get the bloody hell over it already - ONE THING though I fully respect other people's religion or beliefs or non beliefs, I don't go around telling people to convert or this is right or wrong, unlike many of you atheists who always find a way to be on the defensive and utterly disrespect others with your rubbish.

In regards to science, again you are wrong.  I DON'T want science to be wrong to suit my beliefs, quite the opposite, I'd be the first one to acknowledge any scientific explanations for thing.  I'm an open minded person, and will never deny facts and science.  However, since there is big money and big industries involved, there is obviously corruption, so one has to be careful being brainwashed both ways.
I like to question and see both sides of things.......when there is no definitive answer......I'm open to the possibility of some theories that our consciousness and EVERYTHING about our life is nothing more than electrical and chemical reactions in our brain, but also open to the possibility that there is more to life than our physical body and its physiological aspect/processes.
Did you eve bother read when I mention possibility ? Did I at any time say my views were the right ones and made conclusions ? NO.........Note the keyword possibility.  I do have my beliefs in certain areas, but I DID mention I was on the fence on many things yet.  Do I believe we are the only life out there in the open ? No.  Do I believe in alien ? ghosts ? I never said I did........Do I believe our lives have meaning and that we are more than flesh ? I do.......  PLEASE make the distinction , I did not SAY there IS something...........  Some people go out there and turn their beliefs into facts and spread their crap on websites, tv shows, and write books, at no point in time did I do that.
can't a person express his views without being attacked around here !?!?!?  Just because some of you had allegedly traumatic experiences doesn't mean you have to attack those who have beliefs especially when I was sympathetic and open to everything some of you said about your views (eds, did I ever bash you when you made your vicious comments ? No I even acknowledged and agreed with you in many areas!)

Wasn't I the one who mentioned that there is corruption/brainwash both sides ? Not all my remarks in regards to religion was kind, but you never bothered reading my bloody posts, as all you and others were doing is dissecting what you wanted to and finding ways to contradict and to go on the attack.  WTH hate, is this a discussion or a religion war !?!?!?!?!?!?  Is this atheists vs. believers ? I can't believe this.

Have you studied science ? Please share mate.   If you think science has answers to everything, you probably did not pay attention in class. YES science has answers now that it did not 400 years ago, obviously, I'm not that fucking ignorant to deny it, but instead you degraded me and assumed that I would, who the bloody hell do you take me for ? You think I'm some bloody monk or religious freak wearing his rosary and sitting in a chair all day praising the Lord ? You mate are clueless if you think so.

And, no denying that perhaps science will come up with some answers, and I will be happy if they do!  Wasn't I the first person who mentioned that I believe we are wasting our money spending billions on SETI or space programs, instead we should spend money where appropriate, medicine, humanity, etc, instead of spending billions searching for ETs ? I mentioned this more than once....... I do like the science aspect, I'm that person with an open mind.  Many people in the scientific community also have beliefs sometimes many contradicting views with their own field ! How do I know ? I KNOW because many people in the field are close to me, I've worked with them, I've studied with them.....  But not all are open about it.   Do some doctors also have beliefs ? YES, I've come across some, yet they have to stick to what they know.  Some doctors do believe in OBEs/NDEs, DESPITE medicine that can reproduce and explain many of its aspect (YES, wasn't I the first who acknowledged that ?)  However, there are certain things yet unexplained.  Doctors who work in the field have seen many things, and some do have beliefs, does it make them bad doctors ? No.
Essentially, the term BELIEF is used because there is no PROOF.  It goes both ways.

What I stated were FACTS....In medicine, they don't have answers to everything, they might know a lot of "how" but can't always explain the "why".  If we had all the answers, why the hell are there billions of $ spent on medical research, space exploration, space program, NASA, etc......it would be pointless to spend all that money for nothing don't you think ?

Wasn't I the FIRST person in this topic to admit that science thinks they have found the area of our brain responsible for our beliefs in a supreme being, (God area of the brain)........?  FUNNY you might have skipped that !  Mind you these explanation don't negate any other possibilities out there, we might have some pieces of the puzzle, but the puzzle is far from being solved.

Wasn't I the first person to also mention all the hoaxes and scam behind religion and how it is used for corruption and brainwash around the world ?  Would a religious closed minded person mention these words ? NEVER, so give me a break with your rubbish because your remarks are derogatory and unfair, and I can stoop to that level too if need be if I have to defend against such toss.

Damn this topic was busy. Won't elaborate on anything as it all stopped

It stopped until you started it again.... Nice job Harri ! :D You had to add in your venom, so you expect me to sit there and not respond to it ?

Quote
but just wanted Darkstar to think more about what he is saying in terms of science. I already mentioned that if you asked something that science can explains now, but couldn't 400 years ago to one of the earliest scientists, he won't be able to answer.

LOL !  More tosspot remarks.
Because I have given many examples and acknowledged this, if you bothered reading.  I mentioned many times that science made advances, and has answers, but not to everything.   I already gave a solid argument.   Billions are spent on research each year, wouldn't that be pointless if we had answers to everything ?
What does it have to do with this ?

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And the fact he isn't able to answer doesn't means science isn't able to answer. So if there is something science can't answer about brains right now, then how does that mean science can't answer it in general?

Science does not have ALL answers, otherwise we'd be way more advanced don't you think ? There would be no need to spend billions/trillions of $ on medical research, exploration, etc.   Sure compared to 400 years ago there are lot of answers, never denied that.....and sure in the future we will probably know more, again depending on how much of it is blocked by corruption.  I'm even willing to admit that perhaps science knows more than it lets out, and simply blocked by money and major influences.
Do I believe we can cure more diseases than currently possible ? YES....... Do I believe some people higher up know things they are not sharing ? YES.......  DESPITE all that, I don't think we have answers to everything.
and we never will crack the complete mystery of life itself.

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And if I ask you - if in 50 years they can answer your questions regarding brains, then will you suddenly think science can answer everything that is answerable?

If so I will acknowledge these answers the same as I do now.  Won't change my beliefs though.  I do go around preaching or changing people or scamming.....I don't bother anybody !  That's what separates a religious fanatic against someone with beliefs and open minded, I think you labeled me wrong mate.

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You, just like many religious people today

If I didn't know better I could turn the tables and mention "You, just like other arrogant, self centered, condescending, disrespectful atheists......."  would you like that ? I guess not.  But I do know better because I know a lot of atheists, and luckily some are very respectful, open minded, and some of them have best friends who have beliefs and even some practicing their religion........We are all humans for FUCKsake.

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and in previous decades, cling to yet unexplained as cause for science to be wrong. Because not that science is wrong, but because they NEED it to be wrong.

Again, LOL, generalising.  Seems you lot have been brainwashed into thinking every person with beliefs or practicing their religion are fanatics.

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They NEED it to be wrong or lacking, because otherwise there is no room for belief. So it's not really anything to do with science, it's about ones own inability to let go of his/her own beliefs.

Do I tell you to stop "NOT believing" and believe in something ? NO, do I tell you how to live your life ? No, so don't bloody tell me what I SHOULD or SHOULD NOT believe in,
it's your CHOICE to be an atheist......the same reason why some people are GAY and some people are LESBIANS.......Can you tell a GAY person to stop being GAY because it is "wrong" ???

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tkg - I have no problems with you or anyone else.

You could've fooled me !   :P  You seem to have problems with people thinking out of the box, open minded, open to POSSIBILITIES.  Can faith/belief help people ? YES, is there use for that YES!  Why the hell do you think placebos are used in studies, how can you explain they are effective to some extent ?  What about all that think positive, believe in yourself crap........  Mind over matter right ?   Seems to tie in well with what science knows about the brain and the connection between some of the things it could not answer before. 
So is there something wrong with believing in something "more" our "outside" the box, no........it's healthy just so long as you don't attempt to change others or ruin your life over it and those of others...... UNFORTUNATELY, this might not be the case for a large % of people...........PROOF is in the news all over.......look what's happening in the middle east and other countries.

So perhaps this is why you lot are putting us all in the same basket.  Still does not justify your shite remarks earlier though.

Quote
I don't like when 90% of topics in ENIGMA is filled with useless profanity though, as it kind of discredits the project.

But as I don't care about its popularity, then I don't care about the language used.

lol, if it's not popular the way you expect it, it's a far bigger issue than language.  There is no excuse.......Forums can be moderated you know ? There is a nice thing called an admin area, and admin privileges, that's what moderating is for, and that's what RULES are for.

On that note, you can keep your vicious attacks and remarks against my character I will defend them, but one thing I will not respond to is anything about religion, God, etc.  unless it is done without the constant blatant disrespect.  One thing I do notice however, the dissing always seems to come from the "non believer" atheist side......at least on this forum :D
So am I supposed to just "STOP" and accept all this rubbish ? especially when it has turned from an open debate to a TRIAL and personal attacks ? :P

Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 20, 2014, 01:12:32 PM
@Darkstar2:

First of all D, I did dissect your cooment since I only want to talk about some of the issues and points you make.

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Do I tell you to stop "NOT believing" and believe in something ? NO, do I tell you how to live your life ? No, so don't bloody tell me what I SHOULD or SHOULD NOT believe in,
it's your CHOICE to be an atheist......the same reason why some people are GAY and some people are LESBIANS.......Can you tell a GAY person to stop being GAY because it is "wrong"  ???

It is anybodys choice to believe or not to believe true, but being gay or lesbian is not a choice, maybe this is what TheExDeus was talking about when he made his remark about what you say about science.

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Wasn't I the first person to also mention all the hoaxes and scam behind religion and how it is used for corruption and brainwash around the world ?  Would a religious closed minded person mention these words ? NEVER, so give me a break with your rubbish because your remarks are derogatory and unfair, and I can stoop to that level too if need be if I have to defend against such toss.

In order: Yes, No, True, Maybe, Yes you can.

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Again, LOL, generalising.  Seems you lot have been brainwashed into thinking every person with beliefs or practicing their religion are fanatics.

Generalising: You lot??? Really? I don't recall anybody calling you or any religious person fanatic, I don't recall anybody throwing YOU with everybody else who believes.

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You lot have a very disrespectful and arrogant stance against people with faith/beliefs, all labeling us into one group

Generalsing again??

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(eds, did I ever bash you when you made your vicious comments ? No I even acknowledged and agreed with you in many areas!)

Again in order: No you din't bash me, what vicious comments? Yes you did both.

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Not all my remarks in regards to religion was kind, but you never bothered reading my bloody posts, as all you and others were doing is dissecting what you wanted to and finding ways to contradict and to go on the attack

Generalising again?? What atack? I don't recall anybody resorting to Ad-Hominem, if you're talking about answering your statements yes we all did, but never attacking you only your info, your remarcks or your "facts", that is attacking the argument not the person offering it; I thought that was what happened in a debate?

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So perhaps this is why you lot are putting us all in the same basket.  Still does not justify your shite remarks earlier though.

Generalising again?? Who? When? Where? What basket?

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On that note, you can keep your vicious attacks and remarks against my character I will defend them, but one thing I will not respond to is anything about religion, God, etc.  unless it is done without the constant blatant disrespect.  One thing I do notice however, the dissing always seems to come from the "non believer" atheist side......at least on this forum

It's your right and choice to defend any attack on your character true although I saw none, it's withing your rights and choice who you talk and about what and under what conditions. Who, when, how did anybody dissed you? You sure about that? Who said that all the persons they knew that were atheists were drunkards, drugaddicts, and other stuff? Pray tell who did that?

Peace out bro.
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: Josh @ Dreamland on July 20, 2014, 01:14:28 PM
This whole topic is really TL;DR; am I supposed to be doing something about it? I don't see any 72-point type, so it's looking tame enough.
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: Darkstar2 on July 20, 2014, 01:27:02 PM
This whole topic is really TL;DR; am I supposed to be doing something about it? I don't see any 72-point type, so it's looking tame enough.

LOL you mean this ?
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 20, 2014, 01:40:02 PM
This whole topic is really TL;DR; am I supposed to be doing something about it? I don't see any 72-point type, so it's looking tame enough.

LOL you mean this ?

Lol!

What is TL;DR?
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: Darkstar2 on July 20, 2014, 01:45:39 PM
Means Too Long Didn't Read  :P


Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: edsquare on July 20, 2014, 01:54:30 PM
Means Too Long Didn't Read  :P

Thanks!
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: TheExDeus on July 21, 2014, 04:29:47 AM
Damn that was a long post about nothing. Dark, you should really reread what I wrote. IN NO PLACE, SHAPE OR FORM, did I make an offense or a derogatory statement about you. I was talking about your statements in regard to science on how it's inability to answer your questions is somehow a cause for belief in god. I was just pointing out that it's not really the case, because not having an answer isn't the same as having the wrong one. So the fact that science, less than 200 years after it's inception (or at least stricter formulation), cannot answer questions about the whole universe - questions, I might add, all religions got wrong for thousands of years - isn't a reason to think science is in any shape or form wrong. It's also not valid to think those questions are somehow beyond science, like god is. So the whole point of my post was to point out the fallacy you made. I did say "religious people" in general as well, because that really is a fallacy many people with similar beliefs make. I didn't say that to offend you or to "put you "all" in the same bucket", just the contrary, I wanted to convey the idea that you aren't alone in that thought. So I wanted you not to feel like it was somehow a personal affront, as many people are thinking the same.

tl;dr - Science in 200 years have done, proved, identified and discovered more than anything in thousands of years before it (even religions), so not having answers to all questions in the whole universe doesn't show lack of ability in science, it just shows the scope of the universe.
Title: Re: Religious wars in the programming community
Post by: Goombert on July 21, 2014, 04:41:21 AM
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not having answers to all questions in the whole universe doesn't show lack of ability in science, it just shows the scope of the universe.
entropy = randomness = information
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy_%28information_theory%29