ENIGMA Forums

Outsourcing saves money => Programming Help => Topic started by: edsquare on June 04, 2014, 06:49:04 PM

Title: EDL & ENIGMA functions, syntax etc.
Post by: edsquare on June 04, 2014, 06:49:04 PM
Is there somewhere I should look for this?

It's not in the wiki, and I can't find it in the forum.
Title: Re: EDL & ENIGMA functions, syntax etc.
Post by: Darkstar2 on June 04, 2014, 07:28:21 PM
Is there somewhere I should look for this?

It's not in the wiki, and I can't find it in the forum.

For documentation here:
http://enigma-dev.org/docs/Wiki/Documentation

Functions documentation here:
http://enigma-dev.org/docs/Wiki/Function_Documentation

EDL exclusive functions (Only available in ENIGMA) here:
http://enigma-dev.org/docs/Wiki/Category:Function:ENIGMA
Title: Re: EDL & ENIGMA functions, syntax etc.
Post by: edsquare on June 04, 2014, 09:04:27 PM
http://docs.yoyogames.com

If any function doesn't work as advertised on ENIGMA it will be YYG's fault :P

Thank you I'll be sure to let them have a piece of my mind.  ;D

Is there somewhere I should look for this?

It's not in the wiki, and I can't find it in the forum.

For documentation here:
http://enigma-dev.org/docs/Wiki/Documentation

Functions documentation here:
http://enigma-dev.org/docs/Wiki/Function_Documentation

EDL exclusive functions (Only available in ENIGMA) here:
http://enigma-dev.org/docs/Wiki/Category:Function:ENIGMA

Thank you very much, the drag and drop part already saw it, but I wasn't able to find the part about programming.  ???
Title: Re: EDL & ENIGMA functions, syntax etc.
Post by: Darkstar2 on June 05, 2014, 12:24:43 AM
Thank you I'll be sure to let them have a piece of my mind.  ;D

Careful not to mention ENIGMA or any competitor product on their forum, they consider it blasphemy and will pull you from the Prestigious YoYoGames Club and ban you from forum for eternity :D

Quote

Thank you very much, the drag and drop part already saw it, but I wasn't able to find the part about programming.  ???

For finding specific items I too, use docs.yoyogames.com or I open my GMS and access its help, it's faster that way :D

Title: Re: EDL & ENIGMA functions, syntax etc.
Post by: egofree on June 05, 2014, 02:10:26 AM
An introduction about EDL : http://enigma-dev.org/docs/Wiki/ENIGMA:Specification
Title: Re: EDL & ENIGMA functions, syntax etc.
Post by: Goombert on June 05, 2014, 02:19:17 AM
Thank you guys for assisting edsquare, there's a lot of material on the wiki, some of it you have to dig for, but I still don't understand why people have such a hard time finding the function pages. It's literally just documentation, functions instead of actions, and bam you're there.

edsquare, how did you see the drag and drop actions but not the functions?
Title: Re: EDL & ENIGMA functions, syntax etc.
Post by: Goombert on June 05, 2014, 02:56:00 AM
That would be Josh's fault, because that page is actually a page on the Wiki, and on the Wiki, the image is a link. But their wiki->html parser or w/e is fucking up the links.

Edit: there should be no problems now.
http://enigma-dev.org/download.htm
Title: Re: EDL & ENIGMA functions, syntax etc.
Post by: edsquare on June 05, 2014, 12:34:44 PM
Thank you guys for assisting edsquare, there's a lot of material on the wiki, some of it you have to dig for, but I still don't understand why people have such a hard time finding the function pages. It's literally just documentation, functions instead of actions, and bam you're there.

edsquare, how did you see the drag and drop actions but not the functions?

Exactly, I did click on some of them but since all were D&D I tought it should be somewhere else  :(  :ohdear:
Title: Re: EDL & ENIGMA functions, syntax etc.
Post by: edsquare on June 05, 2014, 12:39:31 PM
An introduction about EDL : http://enigma-dev.org/docs/Wiki/ENIGMA:Specification

Thank you so much.

And the same goes for everyone else, frem devs to user/contributors/trolls and whatnot.

I'm trying an idea about a platformer/racing/puzzle/arcade game and D&D is way to slow, I will keep doing what I can that way but will be trying to learn tho code so the progress is faster.
Title: Re: EDL & ENIGMA functions, syntax etc.
Post by: Darkstar2 on June 05, 2014, 03:30:39 PM
An introduction about EDL : http://enigma-dev.org/docs/Wiki/ENIGMA:Specification

Thank you so much.

And the same goes for everyone else, frem devs to user/contributors/trolls and whatnot.

I'm trying an idea about a platformer/racing/puzzle/arcade game and D&D is way to slow, I will keep doing what I can that way but will be trying to learn tho code so the progress is faster.

I strongly encourage you there.   Given my time is very limited I never actually made fully completed projects but mostly experimenting and I've done platform type engines, but never really had the time to finish something I start.
I started with D&D, and used it for a short while, I got tired of it.  It's actually a mess, confusing and not organized. :D

Now I do my entire projects with code, not a single D&D.
Of course I have an advantage, I type insanely fast and highly accurate so that helps get things done.  Coding is not difficult at all you just have to convert your thoughts to logic elements and associate them with functions.  The documentation is your best friend! If you have not coded before first thing to get familiar with is basic things like variables, operators, conditional operations, keywords, constants, structure, and the functions themselves under each categories (drawing, sprites, movement, collision, resources, etc.etc.etc.)  Building a platform game using code only is actually easy.  Once you learn and memorise the functions and associate them with what they do, and you think like code and convert your thoughts to logic / code, it will be easy from there.
I worked with BASIC and ASM before on an expert level. If you are familiar with BASIC, you will see that GML is easier !

Title: Re: EDL & ENIGMA functions, syntax etc.
Post by: egofree on June 05, 2014, 03:42:14 PM
An introduction about EDL : http://enigma-dev.org/docs/Wiki/ENIGMA:Specification

Thank you so much.

You are welcome. I am not fluent in english, otherwise i would like to update the EDL specification. My feeling is that it was made for people who know already C++, as you find all the time references about C++. It's a shame, as often people who try Game maker are beginners in programming and don't know anything about C++.

Here is just one example :

Quote
Arrays

EDL inherits JavaScript-like arrays rather than C++-like arrays. This is so an array can serve as an lvalue, as in the following code:

I am afraid not a lot of people know what is lvalue value (I didn't know, i had to look on internet). Instead what about writing :

Quote
An array is always declared as a variant data type with the keyword var, followed by its name. Variant variables are not restricted to a specific data type and can hold any value you want. In order to access the element of an array, you add after its name the element index rounded by square brackets.

Example :

var myarray;

myarray[1] = 10;

Much clearer, no ?  :D (Except if you forget my approximate english :P )

I am not here to rant but to say if some beginners try Enigma and read first this specification i guess it will scares some of them.
Title: Re: EDL & ENIGMA functions, syntax etc.
Post by: edsquare on June 05, 2014, 03:50:15 PM
An introduction about EDL : http://enigma-dev.org/docs/Wiki/ENIGMA:Specification

Thank you so much.

And the same goes for everyone else, frem devs to user/contributors/trolls and whatnot.

I'm trying an idea about a platformer/racing/puzzle/arcade game and D&D is way to slow, I will keep doing what I can that way but will be trying to learn tho code so the progress is faster.

I strongly encourage you there.   Given my time is very limited I never actually made fully completed projects but mostly experimenting and I've done platform type engines, but never really had the time to finish something I start.
I started with D&D, and used it for a short while, I got tired of it.  It's actually a mess, confusing and not organized. :D

Now I do my entire projects with code, not a single D&D.
Of course I have an advantage, I type insanely fast and highly accurate so that helps get things done.  Coding is not difficult at all you just have to convert your thoughts to logic elements and associate them with functions.  The documentation is your best friend! If you have not coded before first thing to get familiar with is basic things like variables, operators, conditional operations, keywords, constants, structure, and the functions themselves under each categories (drawing, sprites, movement, collision, resources, etc.etc.etc.)  Building a platform game using code only is actually easy.  Once you learn and memorise the functions and associate them with what they do, and you think like code and convert your thoughts to logic / code, it will be easy from there.
I worked with BASIC and ASM before on an expert level. If you are familiar with BASIC, you will see that GML is easier !

Actually I dabled some with GWBASIC back in the day, then after more than 20 years I taught myself FPC (Pascal) in the last year, and while Lazarus is great for developing applications, the amount of c++ libraries is staggering, so I wanted something to make games with, (Opensource is a must) found GameEditor, and it's great but you can't do levels easily; so my search led me here, I must be honest: I downloaded and installed (on wine) GM but since it's propietary, the complete version very expensive (Even before the compiler). I found ENIGMA and here we are.

The game I have in mind is a cross between a mario/Ms. pacman/mario race/wolfenstein/jeweled/streets of rage like games, where each world ends in a challenge (hence the other games), and to pass to the next world you must get a certain score/or clear the challenge.

While I'm not that fast nor precise writing code, I think any game big/complicated enough would be more difficult to make with D&D only, hence my need to learn to code in EDL/C++ (which is best/easier?), and to have acces to the ENIGMA API; hopefully around christmas the game will be complete.  :-\
Title: Re: EDL & ENIGMA functions, syntax etc.
Post by: edsquare on June 05, 2014, 03:56:07 PM
An introduction about EDL : http://enigma-dev.org/docs/Wiki/ENIGMA:Specification

Thank you so much.

You are welcome. I am not fluent in english, otherwise i would like to update the EDL specification. My feeling is that it was made for people who know already C++, as you find all the time references about C++. It's a shame, as often people who try Game maker are beginners in programming and don't know anything about C++.

Here is just one example :

Quote
Arrays

EDL inherits JavaScript-like arrays rather than C++-like arrays. This is so an array can serve as an lvalue, as in the following code:

I am afraid not a lot of people know what is lvalue value (I didn't know, i had to look on internet). Instead what about writing :

Quote
Arrays are always declared as a variant data type with the keyword var, followed by its name. Variant variables are not restricted to a specific data type and can hold any value you want. In order to access the element of an array, you add after the array name the element index rounded by square brackets.

Example :

var myarray;

myarray[1] = 10;

Much clearer, no ?  :D (Except if you forget my approximate english :P )

I am not here to rant but to say if some beginners try Enigma and read first this specification i guess it will scares some of them.

What is your mother tongue?

If it's spanish you could write the specification and I will gladly translate it to english (Spanish is my mother tongue).

You are 100% right about a need for clearer (without assuming knowledge nor refferences to another programming language) specification by the way.

I'm afraid most developers/programmers (in most projects/venues) forget not everybody knows what they know, and so they do not make it easy to get started (not on purpose but still...).
Title: Re: EDL & ENIGMA functions, syntax etc.
Post by: egofree on June 05, 2014, 04:14:30 PM
If it's spanish you could write the specification and I will gladly translate it to english (Spanish is my mother tongue).

I try to practice spanish with my wife, but my mother tongue is french. Anyway thanks for the proposal !  :)
Title: Re: EDL & ENIGMA functions, syntax etc.
Post by: Darkstar2 on June 05, 2014, 04:54:22 PM
Actually I dabled some with GWBASIC back in the day, then after more than 20 years I taught myself FPC (Pascal) in

I did some regular BASIC, PowerBASIC and QBASIC, and I must say GML is the easiest ... This is why I'm saying if you worked well with other languages you should not have a problem learning EDL/GML.  I did Pascal too (TurboPascal) learned it in school (was part of computer class) but never used it since !

Quote
I downloaded and installed (on wine) GM but since it's propietary,

Proprietary ? you wish  :D You'd be surprised at all the OpenSource used to make GMS  :D

Quote
the complete version very expensive (Even before the compiler). I found ENIGMA and here we are.

$800 ? You don't need that version to make games.  The master collection is for multi platform development.  Usually people who's goal is to publish games and earn money, as you need respective licensing fees for each of the development platforms.  Otherwise like myself, if you develop only in windows, GMS Standard will do fine, and it's not expensive.   GMS Pro if you want to be able to purchase export modules eventually.  In the case of GMS, you probably will not even need the $300 YYC Compiler, as odds are good your games won't be that much faster if at all, unless it is script intensive, but there is debate on whether it is actually good and that much faster :D

Quote
While I'm not that fast nor precise writing code, I think any game big/complicated enough would be more difficult to make with D&D only,

Yes due to the way it is visually represented, indeed it would be a mess.  However there are better ways of visually representing things.  Also for very complex games and certain game elements you'd have no choice but to use code as not all features are covered with D&D.

Quote
hence my need to learn to code in EDL/C++ (which is best/easier?), and to have acces to the ENIGMA API; hopefully around christmas the game will be complete.  :-\

EDL is exclusive to ENIGMA and has functionality not available in GAME MAKER, so the 2 are not compatible.
GML is inherited from GameMaker.  If you want to incorporate physics , you will need to use b2d functions, those are not available in GM.   ENIGMA is flexible and allows you to use all combinations in your projects such as a mix of GML, EDL, and some C++.

Or you can write your entire game from C++ ideally that is the best option, fastest and smallest of size, but requires the most skill and time, probably not this christmas but 2015-2016 :P 

Also ENIGMA is a good way to get your feet wet and get to learn C++.
Title: Re: EDL & ENIGMA functions, syntax etc.
Post by: edsquare on June 05, 2014, 05:22:12 PM
Actually I dabled some with GWBASIC back in the day, then after more than 20 years I taught myself FPC (Pascal) in

I did some regular BASIC, PowerBASIC and QBASIC, and I must say GML is the easiest ... This is why I'm saying if you worked well with other languages you should not have a problem learning EDL/GML.  I did Pascal too (TurboPascal) learned it in school (was part of computer class) but never used it since !

Quote
I downloaded and installed (on wine) GM but since it's propietary,

Proprietary ? you wish  :D You'd be surprised at all the OpenSource used to make GMS  :D

Propietary yes, you can use opensource tools to develop closed source/propietary software, some may even include opensource code in their closed scource apps (not always legally). You could use Lazarus to make the next ENIGMA/GM clone and then release it as closed source/propietary software, and in this case it would be almost certainly legal.

The same goes for games developed with ENIGMA, they can be closedsource/propietary or opensource, your choice.

Quote
the complete version is very expensive (Even before the compiler). I found ENIGMA and here we are.

$800 ? You don't need that version to make games.  The master collection is for multi platform development.  Usually people who's goal is to publish games and earn money, as you need respective licensing fees for each of the development platforms.  Otherwise like myself, if you develop only in windows, GMS Standard will do fine, and it's not expensive.   GMS Pro if you want to be able to purchase export modules eventually.  In the case of GMS, you probably will not even need the $300 YYC Compiler, as odds are good your games won't be that much faster if at all, unless it is script intensive, but there is debate on whether it is actually good and that much faster :D

I do have dual boot in my machine (windows7/LinuxMint) but it's been almost a year since I last used windows, and then only to tryout codetyphon. I preffer not to use that OS.

Quote
While I'm not that fast nor precise writing code, I think any game big/complicated enough would be more difficult to make with D&D only,

Yes due to the way it is visually represented, indeed it would be a mess.  However there are better ways of visually representing things.  Also for very complex games and certain game elements you'd have no choice but to use code as not all features are covered with D&D.

Quote
hence my need to learn to code in EDL/C++ (which is best/easier?), and to have acces to the ENIGMA API; hopefully around christmas the game will be complete.  :-\

EDL is exclusive to ENIGMA and has functionality not available in GAME MAKER, so the 2 are not compatible.
GML is inherited from GameMaker.  If you want to incorporate physics , you will need to use b2d functions, those are not available in GM.   ENIGMA is flexible and allows you to use all combinations in your projects such as a mix of GML, EDL, and some C++.

Or you can write your entire game from C++ ideally that is the best option, fastest and smallest of size, but requires the most skill and time, probably not this christmas but 2015-2016 :P 

Also ENIGMA is a good way to get your feet wet and get to learn C++.

Okey, then EDL for the time being.  :D

Thanks again!  (Y)
Title: Re: EDL & ENIGMA functions, syntax etc.
Post by: Darkstar2 on June 05, 2014, 07:16:47 PM

The same goes for games developed with ENIGMA, they can be closedsource/propietary or opensource, your choice.

I thought that with the current license in ENIGMA you could not close source, your games had to include full source and assets. That is not closed source :D

Quote
Okey, then EDL for the time being.  :D

Thanks again!  (Y)

EDL & GML.   There is not enough EDL functions to cover everything in making a game.
Title: Re: EDL & ENIGMA functions, syntax etc.
Post by: Darkstar2 on June 05, 2014, 08:31:51 PM

Stuff that. Josh can try and sue my for the $1.50 I have in the bank if I make anything commercial with ENIGMA :)

He is working for a fortune 500 and rich now, so yeah, he's got connection, don't worry he'll find the money  ;D ;D ;D

You have a choice:
Either use GMS to make games but then you still have to include the fact that you used a game maker to make your game and the kiddie YoYoRunner that belongs to YYG, bla bla bla .......

OR you can mention that your game was made with the ENIGMA engine (far more appealing and professional to read) but have to link the enigma's site and open your legs and arse crack and allow people people to use your source code, sell it, rip your hard work / resources and shit.

Tough choice....... :D

I'd go for ENIGMA, hoping one day this Godforsaken license will be amended one of these light years.

BTW you are allowed to profit from your ENIGMA creations and if worse comes to worse and you earn $10 million you can bribe Josh and Robert, nobody wants to go to court, settle off court and bake them some home made apple pie and a mug of cold beer along with a suit case with a couple of 100k's and you'll be fine !  ;D
Title: Re: EDL & ENIGMA functions, syntax etc.
Post by: edsquare on June 05, 2014, 11:13:46 PM

Stuff that. Josh can try and sue my for the $1.50 I have in the bank if I make anything commercial with ENIGMA :)

He is working for a fortune 500 and rich now, so yeah, he's got connection, don't worry he'll find the money  ;D ;D ;D

You have a choice:
Either use GMS to make games but then you still have to include the fact that you used a game maker to make your game and the kiddie YoYoRunner that belongs to YYG, bla bla bla .......

OR you can mention that your game was made with the ENIGMA engine (far more appealing and professional to read) but have to link the enigma's site and open your legs and arse crack and allow people people to use your source code, sell it, rip your hard work / resources and shit.

Tough choice....... :D

I'd go for ENIGMA, hoping one day this Godforsaken license will be amended one of these light years.

BTW you are allowed to profit from your ENIGMA creations and if worse comes to worse and you earn $10 million you can bribe Josh and Robert, nobody wants to go to court, settle off court and bake them some home made apple pie and a mug of cold beer along with a suit case with a couple of 100k's and you'll be fine !  ;D

If I did earn that kind of money with something developed with enigma I would gladly donate part of the profits to further development of the engine and it's ide, and part of that money would go directly to the current devs team (current when adn if that ever happens  :raise: ) pockets.

I suspect that would grant me enough leeway to make the crappy games sequels that would really make me a millionaire!
Title: Re: EDL & ENIGMA functions, syntax etc.
Post by: Darkstar2 on June 06, 2014, 01:33:53 AM
hmmm the crappiest are the ones that go viral quick and earn the most. :D

Title: Re: EDL & ENIGMA functions, syntax etc.
Post by: TheExDeus on June 06, 2014, 12:17:13 PM
Quote
OR you can mention that your game was made with the ENIGMA engine (far more appealing and professional to read) but have to link the enigma's site and open your legs and arse crack and allow people people to use your source code, sell it, rip your hard work / resources and shit.
This has been said a million times, but I guess I have to say it a million more - You are not obliged by any law to release the source. The license says that you have to, yes, but WE (the ENIGMA team) are the ones who enforce it. If we don't care whether you release it or not, then you don't have to release it. And we couldn't really sue you for millions even if we wanted you to release the source, because all you would have to do in that case is actually release it. Like we couldn't sue you for "damages" as ENIGMA is free - the fact that you sold a game and didn't release the source didn't cost us anything. So even if did try to somehow sue for money, then the first thing we could ask is for you to release the source, which in most cases you probably would.

Long story short - Sell your games, keep the source. Nothing of any significance will happen because of that.
Title: Re: EDL & ENIGMA functions, syntax etc.
Post by: Goombert on June 06, 2014, 12:33:24 PM
No but if someone took ENIGMA's source code and profited from it we could sue for punitive damages.
Title: Re: EDL & ENIGMA functions, syntax etc.
Post by: Darkstar2 on June 06, 2014, 02:20:38 PM
Quote
OR you can mention that your game was made with the ENIGMA engine (far more appealing and professional to read) but have to link the enigma's site and open your legs and arse crack and allow people people to use your source code, sell it, rip your hard work / resources and shit.
This has been said a million times, but I guess I have to say it a million more - You are not obliged by any law to release the source. The license says that you have to, yes, but WE (the ENIGMA team) are the ones who enforce it. If we don't care whether you release it or not, then you don't have to release it. And we couldn't really sue you for millions even if we wanted you to release the source, because all you would have to do in that case is actually release it. Like we couldn't sue you for "damages" as ENIGMA is free - the fact that you sold a game and didn't release the source didn't cost us anything. So even if did try to somehow sue for money, then the first thing we could ask is for you to release the source, which in most cases you probably would.

Long story short - Sell your games, keep the source. Nothing of any significance will happen because of that.

Thanks Harri, it's all clear now :D  I promise you though, should I make a significant amount of money say maybe $10 millions or more, I'll certainly send a generous donation. and I might even send something to YYG as well since without YYG, I would probably never have found out about ENIGMA lol!

No but if someone took ENIGMA's source code and profited from it we could sue for punitive damages.

True, but I wouldn't and most people wouldn't, and it would be dumb.  If a person has skill and knowledge they'd build a new engine from the grounds up, and make something actually that can be sold. :D

The guy who made flappy pixels was allegedly earning $50k daily, who knows what amount he could have made had he not been overwhelmed by money and his absolutely retarded mistake from ripping off something that anybody can draw in 5 minutes.  So yeah, shame indeed.   There's lots of money for the taking, and APPARENTLY it doesn't take much skill :P Just make a game addictive enough for people to play and have at least 1 million of the 7 billion active internet users pay you $1, and you're set :D