Jimmy_D
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Posted on: January 21, 2014, 09:22:54 pm |
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 69
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Let me clear the air, because it seems my posts were misinterpreted !
It's so easy for people to flap their gums and use the "troll" word which gets used a lot on forums. I have done more than my fair share of raising arguments and examples, with facts.
I don't 100% agree with everything YYG does, in fact, I do agree with a lot of people's problems with YYG. Yes they did lots of tings wrong and fucked up, there are many examples I can cite, however, there are lots of unfair things said about YoYoGames!
I will respond to each of these individually as I see them.
As people who bash and insult YYG you sure don't seem to be taking the heat . If you are going to be talking about a competing product in a bad way, your better be have something solid to brag about or you shut the bloody fuck up ! I am all about principles and fairness......
It's easy for you lot to say "Oh we don't have to do this or we are not required to do that, it's free" rubbish, fine, but this is besides the point....you talk rubbish about another product, well can you deliver any better ? You have great potential to do so but you lot fucked up too in many areas. Sorry but you'd shut up pretty fast if you knew who I was Josh & Robert, calling me a troll and such. I don't post on those forums but I was a big supported of your product from way back and the project, and I am shocked at how it stalled and where it is heading, that's all......Unlike what you think I DO want to see ENIGMA compete and do better.......it would be bloody amazing for an open source program to give an $800 product a hard time........But forget about Master Collection, if it could even closely compete with GM:S Pro it would be fucking brilliant !
So let's get one thing straight, I'm not here to shill YoYoGames or troll in any way. I am not paid by YYG in any way, they couldn't pay me enough money to shill. I defend what's worth defending.........The moment they fucked windows developers in the arse once they started moving more towards mobile devs and charging rip off prices, that is when I started seeing how ENIGMA could solve that.
That aside, I would gladly donate / pay a 3 figure to a product like ENIGMA, that competed against GM:S Pro I don't think money is the issue I think the project ENIGMA is dead, and I am skeptic that it will even compete with GM:S Pro, let alone GM 8.1.........the program is still very incomplete and too many issues.
Prove me wrong. Just because you are a free, open source program does not give you the bragging right "oh we don't have to do shit because we are not a company" bla bla bla bla........If you are ready to go down dirty and borderline slander another company and its products, you better EARN those bragging rights motherfuckers, until you do, maybe you should put all that energy and sexual tension amongst some of you devs aside, and work together instead of against each other!!!
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Josh @ Dreamland
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Reply #1 Posted on: January 21, 2014, 10:47:21 pm |
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Prince of all Goldfish
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2950
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I have already bothered to address the actual points you brought up, elsewhere on these forums. You seem to be under the impression that you had brought up more than that, and so I'll address a couple of the statements you may have mistaken for points here, as well. For instance, you seemed displeased with the behavior of the developers. ENIGMA's developer base is not a coherent entity. No one is paid for their work, here. Everyone is expendable, without exception. We are not a company, and these contributors do not represent a company in any way. If you have a problem with one or more developers, that is not to do with this project. Moreover, contributors are free, here, to share their opinions. This includes opinions that are not founded, not publicly founded, or even downright incorrect. In this country, and on this forum, they are protected in doing so by their freedom of speech. While it is the right of the forum administrators to suppress this, we do not make a habit of doing so. Unlike, I will point out, Yoyo Games. Mentioning competing software on that site, especially in a positive light, is prohibited. Users who do so will have their posts deleted, and will be banned on repeated offense. Meanwhile, we left all twelve of your very rude, often distracting posts up, in the hopes that most of our readers are mature enough to ignore them. Quite a stark contrast, but not really material to this argument. I usually dislike dabbling in outright fallacy, but while we're on the ad-hominem train, I'll point out that many on the Yoyo staff, including forum staff and developers alike, are quite quick to bash this project when it it mentioned. I bring this up to remind you that in a corporate environment, employees do represent their respective companies when they speak. As paid "professionals," you should hold them to a higher standard than you hold contributors to a free software project. But it is fine by me that you choose not to; just don't expect warm reception for an ad hominem. Now, on to the points of substance (the things you said which were not informal fallacies). You mentioned that you were displeased with ENIGMA's lack of updates. ENIGMA has a constant flow of updates. That's actually part of its problem. ENIGMA does not have a formal release schedule. This is to do with the fact that it does not have a formal development team. Instead, ENIGMA has what are basically rolling releases. It may seem broken and rag-tag, but it all comes down to the simple fact that we don't tag git revisions as stable. Many larger projects do so, and then commit only bug fixes to the tags for some length of time. We do not. While there's no profound reason we do not, there is still a reason: no one wants to do that, and no one is getting paid to do that. Solve either of those, and we're golden. You mentioned that no one has ever made a large game in ENIGMA. You don't know that, and we don't know that. ENIGMA does not have a marketing team. We don't strive to make our engine look artificially popular. We don't take people's work that is not ours, put it up on a pedestal and say, "LOOK WHAT WE CAN DO!" The EDC has a good selection of games which were made in Game Maker and happen to work in ENIGMA. It also has a good collection of games which were made in ENIGMA, and happen to still work in ENIGMA (this being the far rarer occurrence). The source is included for all of these games. At no point do we shove any of these in anyone's face for the sole purpose of marketing. TGMG has, however, recently decided to sponsor a game development contest. This isn't to do with your whining so much as a lucky coincidence; you may yet see the artificial popularity charade you seem to crave. You mentioned that our documentation can't be downloaded. No one has automated anything to crawl the Wiki and export pages. That isn't to say it won't happen, just that it has not happened. Once again, the lack of developer interest or subsidization thereof is at issue. It really isn't a big to-do item, though there has been interest in the topic (both from Robert and from various users). In fact, Robert has apparently already worked out a system for downloading pieces of the wiki for offline use. So apparently he is interested in the prospect; now you just have to find a couple more people who feel the same way. Lastly, you mentioned that our licensing was not worked out. This one, we actually intend to correct, even though it is not our responsibility to do so. I would be content to mandate all ENIGMA games be free, but of the sake of the users, am consenting to a license which gives users autonomy over the license of their own executables. The other contributors are also inclined to do so. This problem, largely catalyzed by you, is being addressed in another topic, and you are welcomed to weigh in. I would request that you do so calmly and with the understanding that ENIGMA, while free, is still the intellectual property of its contributors, each of whom holds the prerogative to maintain the restrictions of the GNU General Public License on his or her code indefinitely. And let me emphasize once more that it does not matter who you are, or who I am, or who any other contributor is. A point is a point, and they are handled or ignored as such, regardless of the speaker or his or her intentions.
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« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 11:42:23 am by Josh @ Dreamland »
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"That is the single most cryptic piece of code I have ever seen." -Master PobbleWobble "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -Evelyn Beatrice Hall, Friends of Voltaire
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DaSpirit
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Reply #2 Posted on: January 21, 2014, 11:13:38 pm |
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Location: New York City Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 124
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It's easy for you lot to say "Oh we don't have to do this or we are not required to do that, it's free" rubbish, fine, but this is besides the point....you talk rubbish about another product, well can you deliver any better ? You have great potential to do so but you lot fucked up too in many areas. Sorry but you'd shut up pretty fast if you knew who I was Josh & Robert, calling me a troll and such.
I think it's mostly Robert who bashes YYG. It's always on his mind lol, it's just his personality to be really competitive. Also, how important do you believe you are? I highly doubt that they would care who you are personally (but we still care about you for your opinion and experience). If you are ready to go down dirty and borderline slander another company and its products, you better EARN those bragging rights motherfuckers, until you do, maybe you should put all that energy and sexual tension amongst some of you devs aside, and work together instead of against each other!!!
Yes, Robert, Josh and DarkAce all have a lot of sexual tension. Maybe you should pay some money for them to go to Canada and get laid, because they need it. Especially Robert. We're all working together, by the way. All conflicts are at an end. For now...
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Goombert
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Reply #3 Posted on: January 22, 2014, 01:25:52 am |
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Location: Cappuccino, CA Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2993
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It's easy for you lot to say "Oh we don't have to do this or we are not required to do that, it's free" rubbish, fine, but this is besides the point....you talk rubbish about another product, well can you deliver any better ? Maybe you are missing the point entirely, there are thousands of better game engines much better designed than GameMaker, much more stable, and much more complete. Take Unity3D for instance, whose free version has essentially no restrictions for indie developers, unless you make profits over 100 grand, in which case you are no longer and indie. and I am shocked at how it stalled and where it is heading, that's all... How has it stalled? It stalled temporarily due to commitments by some of the developers to things regarding their personal life. I partially stalled and got a little lazy lately, but what do you expect, when I have absolutely 0 incentive to do so much work. You can't dispute the fact I put a LOT of effort into this project, I became one of the 3% most active developers on GitHub as a result. Where is it heading? Anywhere its developers or users want to take it, the project belongs to everyone. I even wrote a small library for loading action libraries yesterday, what person in their right mind that isn't as insane as I am, would even waste their time? .Unlike what you think I DO want to see ENIGMA compete and do better. The project doesn't have to compete in order to be useful or popular. LGM has a wide array of usages, one being the only IDE that can edit GMX or GMK on an operating system other than Windows, GM don't unless you use an emulator. The other being file conversion between all formats, I've even had to deal with people looking to convert a Studio project back to GM81, and basically telling me to fuck off about the engine after having converted the project. But never the less, it served a purpose. Mentioning competing software on that site, especially in a positive light, is prohibited. Mike Dailly said something along the lines of "I don't know if anyone has heard of this rubbish or not, but I have tried on several occasions to get the thing working and couldn't, keep this garbage off our forums", I am paraphrasing of course because I don't have the exact topic, but it is still on their staff board. I think it's mostly Robert who bashes YYG. It's always on his mind lol, it's just his personality to be really competitive. Actually, I bash ENIGMA just as much, so you can't say I am not fair and balanced. I am like Fox News if they tried to kill themselves. Some of my complaints recently are drawing functions not being designed for optimized rendering. DaSpirit, you know this, you read my posts, I criticize everything and everybody.
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« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 01:41:26 am by Robert B Colton »
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I think it was Leonardo da Vinci who once said something along the lines of "If you build the robots, they will make games." or something to that effect.
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time-killer-games
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Reply #4 Posted on: January 22, 2014, 01:08:15 pm |
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"Guest"
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Jimmy, I know you are passionate about how you feel, but the whole reason I sent you that message was to help you understand that this is an ENIGMA forum, not a YYG or GM forum, if you want to bad mouth us do it on the GMC where people will actually like to hear what you have to say and you will have many fans there. But this isn't just you stating your opinion, you are throwing personal attacks at the members and developers here and we already have enough reasons for demotivation here and this isn't helping. If you really wanted to see this product turn into your definition of useful then give us some time and the devs a chance to do more without you harshly cutting them down.
I know you don't like us attacking YYG and GM but they talk smack about us too perhaps more so since they are a much bigger community, so is you attacking us on our forum really any better than what we rant about? Yes YYG have a lot more to their product than us, that doesn't mean we have no bragging rights. Personally I think no one should brag but still it's a public forum here with no rules so yes we have the technically capability to do as we please here. All we ask is that instead of continually throw at us personal attacks, build us up, don't tear us down, cause we really need more of this to sustain this product and we can use any amount of kindness and encouragement we can get.
In short, take it easy, I know it may be hard to not react to some things we might've said about YoYo/GM, as well as the things we've said to you directly. You have the right to your opinion but there is a borderline where we know enough is enough. So could you at least try to voice your views in a less insulting way, and in a more kind and thoughtful way? this way we can have real and friendly dialog while everyone is happy and we'll actually hear each other and understand each other.
Also, bluntly calling people "motherfuckers" (unless it were an obvious joke) won't result in a positive reaction anywhere on the net, so if you could avoid foul language when you are upset and save it for jokes and whatnot we'd appreciate it.
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« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 01:15:11 pm by time-killer-games »
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Goombert
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Reply #5 Posted on: January 22, 2014, 01:41:27 pm |
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Location: Cappuccino, CA Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2993
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Nah, we're open to any and all criticism, my only concern as this doesn't spread out to 50 different topics and end up in peoples help desk topics, as that is rude. Personally I think no one should brag but still it's a public forum here with no rules so yes we have the technically capability to do as we please here. Nonsense, we should all be open to criticism, otherwise we are never presented with the opportunity for improvement.
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I think it was Leonardo da Vinci who once said something along the lines of "If you build the robots, they will make games." or something to that effect.
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Jimmy_D
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Reply #6 Posted on: January 22, 2014, 03:51:10 pm |
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 69
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Maybe you are missing the point entirely, there are thousands of better game engines much better designed than GameMaker, much more stable, and much more complete. Take Unity3D for instance, whose free version has essentially no restrictions for indie developers, unless you make profits over 100 grand, in which case you are no longer and indie.
Yes but some folks don't want to relearn from scratch - True that there are better engine with steeper learning curves. Not everyone has the time and there are many people with good talent, but know nothing about C++ nor do they have the time to spend writing thousands of lines of code. They have design talents but want a good platform to make games. GM started with that in mind, but it was completely fucked up with YYG acquired it. Even though they made serious improvements, the moment they started crippling windows developers and changing course, that is when they lost my support. Biggest disappointment was the $299 charge for the YYC compiler for windows......Considering how many issues it still has. Mike Dailly said something along the lines of "I don't know if anyone has heard of this rubbish or not, but I have tried on several occasions to get the thing working and couldn't, keep this garbage off our forums", I am paraphrasing of course because I don't have the exact topic, but it is still on their staff board.
Hmm interesting I never saw that post, but seriously now do you expect him of all people to just say "Hey folks I tried that amazing software and I was bloody amazed maybe we can learn from it" LOL of course he's going to say it is rubbish and he could not get it to work........Mind you in a way he's right, it's rubbish..BUT....it has great potential, and in some areas exceeds GM:S. Now you lot can COMPILE your catch the clown games....and brag to your mates that your retro, shite mario port and catch the clown and shoot the alphabets type games run 1000x faster, er...yeah, because you have a lot of computing and AI in those catch the clown games (end sarcasm!). Seriously ! do you really lose sleep over what Mike Daily says ? It's normal for a company to frown upon competition products being discussed on their forums, regardless of whether it is rubbish or not FACT IS, you are not competing against GM Master collection, which is the biggest earner for YYG, therefore, they have nothing to worry about. The geeky mobile devs are stuck with GM:S for a long time. The windows devs who want to make half decent and fast games, who don't want to be ripped off $300 for an incomplete mess, will more likely be the right target for ENIGMA, and I don't think that will bother YYG too much seeing how they treat windows devs, and seeing how nobody in their right bloody mind would pay $300 for a YYC windows only export. In fact, many people are using pirated copies of GM:S for the YYC compiler..........With ENIGMA, perhaps that would help solve that problem. They have constantly mentioned they are actively monitoring people who use cracked version to release their shite. so there is every good reason for a windows dev to move over to ENIGMA, providing enigma is a solid match or even close to it. I'm sure some people would compromise a little and re-write their stuff in ENIGMA. I think it's mostly Robert who bashes YYG. It's always on his mind lol, it's just his personality to be really competitive. That's not a bad thing to be competitive, but you have to deliver
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Jimmy_D
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Reply #7 Posted on: January 22, 2014, 03:51:26 pm |
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 69
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Maybe you are missing the point entirely, there are thousands of better game engines much better designed than GameMaker, much more stable, and much more complete. Take Unity3D for instance, whose free version has essentially no restrictions for indie developers, unless you make profits over 100 grand, in which case you are no longer and indie.
Yes but some folks don't want to relearn from scratch - True that there are better engine with steeper learning curves. Not everyone has the time and there are many people with good talent, but know nothing about C++ nor do they have the time to spend writing thousands of lines of code. They have design talents but want a good platform to make games. GM started with that in mind, but it was completely fucked up with YYG acquired it. Even though they made serious improvements, the moment they started crippling windows developers and changing course, that is when they lost my support. Biggest disappointment was the $299 charge for the YYC compiler for windows......Considering how many issues it still has. Mike Dailly said something along the lines of "I don't know if anyone has heard of this rubbish or not, but I have tried on several occasions to get the thing working and couldn't, keep this garbage off our forums", I am paraphrasing of course because I don't have the exact topic, but it is still on their staff board.
Hmm interesting I never saw that post, but seriously now do you expect him of all people to just say "Hey folks I tried that amazing software and I was bloody amazed maybe we can learn from it" LOL of course he's going to say it is rubbish and he could not get it to work........Mind you in a way he's right, it's rubbish..BUT....it has great potential, and in some areas exceeds GM:S. Now you lot can COMPILE your catch the clown games....and brag to your mates that your retro, shite mario port and catch the clown and shoot the alphabets type games run 1000x faster, er...yeah, because you have a lot of computing and AI in those catch the clown games (end sarcasm!). Seriously ! do you really lose sleep over what Mike Daily says ? It's normal for a company to frown upon competition products being discussed on their forums, regardless of whether it is rubbish or not FACT IS, you are not competing against GM Master collection, which is the biggest earner for YYG, therefore, they have nothing to worry about. The geeky mobile devs are stuck with GM:S for a long time. The windows devs who want to make half decent and fast games, who don't want to be ripped off $300 for an incomplete mess, will more likely be the right target for ENIGMA, and I don't think that will bother YYG too much seeing how they treat windows devs, and seeing how nobody in their right bloody mind would pay $300 for a YYC windows only export. In fact, many people are using pirated copies of GM:S for the YYC compiler..........With ENIGMA, perhaps that would help solve that problem. They have constantly mentioned they are actively monitoring people who use cracked version to release their shite. so there is every good reason for a windows dev to move over to ENIGMA, providing enigma is a solid match or even close to it. I'm sure some people would compromise a little and re-write their stuff in ENIGMA. I think it's mostly Robert who bashes YYG. It's always on his mind lol, it's just his personality to be really competitive. That's not a bad thing to be competitive, but you have to deliver
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Jimmy_D
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Reply #8 Posted on: January 22, 2014, 04:12:39 pm |
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 69
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Jimmy, I know you are passionate about how you feel, but the whole reason I sent you that message was to help you understand that this is an ENIGMA forum, not a YYG or GM forum, if you want to bad mouth us do it on the GMC where people will actually like to hear what you have to say
I would never do that because whilst I supported GM and YYG to some extent, it came to a point where I did not like the direction they were taking - despite their frequent updates and all which I praised, I do see people complain about the bad support and how they are treated, and I did not agree with that at first but started to see the picture from reading more ..... I want to see ENIGMA beat GM:S on so many levels, at least on the windows level. They will probably never be a Master Collection but at least compete against GM:S Pro and be unique in its own way......But what gets to me is seeing people bash competition (ok rightfully so) but at least have a product that is complete and worthy so you can talk against your competitors In my opinion you have the potential, it's just that the development is slow and seemed stalled / abandoned..... and now the usual response as "we are free" etc.etc. SO, ok you claim it is free, you are not paid you don't have to.......So it's good to say YYG is this, is that, their program is this, is that, but ENIGMA has still long ways to go to earn bragging rights. Fuck it, screw compatibility......if it is such a problem, then forget about the importing of projects. Have it to be structurally compatible and have people start new projects using ENIGMA, with the same set of GML they are used to and look, with newer features thrown in and better performance (compiler). developers here and we already have enough reasons for demotivation here and this isn't helping. If you really wanted to see this product turn into your definition of useful then give us some time and the devs a chance to do more without you harshly cutting them down.
Ok let's do some role play for a minute. Assume that I am the CEO of YoYoGames. Once upon a time I decide to take time off my vacation around the world and watch what my customers are writing on the wee forums........ I see people posting about "ENIGMA"...hmmm what's that ? I decide to investigate further, take criticism and where I am being bashed.......Then I decide to test the waters and see why the grass on the other side is greener (allegedly).......Only later, to discover that I am dealing with a severely unfinished product, tons of issues, and stalled development. If I have someone bashing my software and company, I would really LOVE to see what the bashers have to offer that I don't and I would certainly use this to improve my software.......But unfortunately, as of yet, I would not have reasons to fear anything and just laugh it off. I am bashing the way things are because I want them to be better, again, I want to see you guys reach the top and blow this mangled wannabe game maker tool out of the water.......really I do, and many of us do, but first impressions I see BAD communication amongst devs, fights, for what really, instead of working together, you have a gold mine of an opportunity and amazing potential there......I don't reckon YYG should fear you anytime soon! I would like to say prove me wrong but you'd say "we don't have to" and you're right......so you earned the bragging rights for some elements but not all. Your software doesn't have shitty DRM, that's a point for you...... I know you don't like us attacking YYG and GM but they talk smack about us too perhaps more so since they are a much bigger
I was not aware of that. I have not posted yet on their forum, but I have read many topics, none of which were about ENIGMA. I'd love to see those posts. Right there will always be big fans and supporters there......they don't realise all the flaws in the software they are using and how wrong so many things are done on many levels.....So I can see Mark Overmars saying "Oh thank **** I don't have to deal with this bloody mess anymore !" but I'm sure deep inside he is not entirely happy with the direction YYG took GM.....I can bet money on that. yes we have the technically capability to do as we please here. All we ask is that instead of continually throw at us personal attacks, build us up, don't tear us down, cause we really need more of this to sustain this product and we can use any amount of kindness and encouragement we can get.
lol - you've gotten enough encouragement. I fully encourage you to continue and not give up - Mark Overmars had a purpose when he released Game Maker........ YYG broke this and changed this entirely. I think ENIGMA has a good opportunity to "REVIVE" GM, make it better and bring it BACK on the right course.
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Jimmy_D
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Reply #9 Posted on: January 22, 2014, 04:22:21 pm |
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 69
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Nah, we're open to any and all criticism, my only concern as this doesn't spread out to 50 different topics and end up in peoples help desk topics, as that is rude.
Personally I think no one should brag but still it's a public forum here with no rules so yes we have the technically capability to do as we please here. Nonsense, we should all be open to criticism, otherwise we are never presented with the opportunity for improvement.
lol well why not recruit then There are probably tons of disgruntled GM users who are fed up of the mess and many who have gone who would gladly help. Unfortunately not everyone is capable of helping even if they wanted to as they are not coders. Some people use GM because they don't know how to code their game. Some KNOW how to code but use GM to speed up their game dev. Those are the people who would be fit to help, why not start an entire community / forum about people who left GM / unhappy GM users, etc. I'm sure you could find more contributors to the project if you looked and asked. Right now you have people who quit and clearly have no intentions to continue, so to me and many silent observers, ENIGMA seems on life support, dying a slow death. I feel so sorry for people who dished out $299 for the YYC windows compiler. Even sorrier for people who have to use a cracked version, that is probably ridden in trojans and callbacks. It's hard to imagine you have not found anybody willing to continue working on it...... I'm sure there are, maybe not everyone is aware of your project. I can tell you with 100% certainty, there are many unhappy customers STILL using GM (not by choice) and they would gladly move on if they find something better. Learning a new platform is not an option for many.........You on the other hand offer potential because you are supporting GML, even supporting much the same feel and look, nobody can ask for better,and I'm sure when/*IF* you complete this project, people will have good reason to move over, particularly the windows devs. Offer HTML5 export, and even better. I don't think you might run into much legal problem sticking to Windows/HTML5....... trying to become MAster Collection, that might not be a good idea, but again, competition is good, and people can learn from one another and be better. UNFORTUNATELY, I think YYG's #1 priority ATM is money.
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Goombert
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Reply #10 Posted on: January 22, 2014, 04:56:42 pm |
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Location: Cappuccino, CA Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2993
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That is actually how we do get most developers, that is also how I actually came to this project, when YYG kicked me out for criticizing them one day. After having bought GM8.1 I will never buy another version of GameMaker.
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I think it was Leonardo da Vinci who once said something along the lines of "If you build the robots, they will make games." or something to that effect.
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Jimmy_D
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Reply #11 Posted on: January 22, 2014, 11:10:21 pm |
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 69
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That is actually how we do get most developers, that is also how I actually came to this project, when YYG kicked me out for criticizing them one day. After having bought GM8.1 I will never buy another version of GameMaker.
i am keeping up to date and digging posts, as I was not aware of all those things. YYG is not the YYG I once knew. I am very disappointed by what I am learning. I am aware a lot of people were bashing YYG, but not aware they were banning people. So you are a paid user, how dare you critisise them lol...... (note my sarcasm here just in case !) How utterly disgusting. You guys take criticism well, and YYG with their overpriced turd they can't take valid, criticism. That's sad indeed. I see many people in the mantis make very good suggestions for new features, some even small ones, and the best ones get denied by YYG, they are lazy at best and it's clear they don't want to further improve the windows side of things and want to focus on mobile. That makes me fucking irate - I read somewhere that some of you despise the fact people get orgasms over mobile games, I am of the same opinion, what's up with all that pile of dung being released on stores, complete utter shite. Is it the lack of talent or is it the shady limitations of game making engine I see some suggestions posted by people who want them to bring back ability for windows devs to use video playback ! I mean FFS they used FFMPEG for audio (lazy prats) they could have used the same to process video. Some members made a good point that some mobile games have cut scenes - why the HELL did they remove a useful function. But no, instead of working to apply this function across all exports, they took the lazy easy way out by making some functions obsolete.... Someone wrote in the mantis suggesting valid arguments to bring it back, that dates for months now and not a single person at YYG replied, even though the post was assigned. That is utterly unprofessional and disgusting. Fuck me, is that what people cum in their trousers for mobile shite, I will pay $800 and make tons of rubbish mobile games and be filthy rich if that's what people want. It's kind of sad....... Some of us don't fucking want ANYTHING to do with mobile apps !!! A good example now is M$ and Windows 8 merging the mobile app feel to a desktop OS!!! Ugly as shite, I don't want to see my PC turn into a mobile emulator.....Nobody wants that. This is where ENIGMA can shine......Don't cut windows users off and don't sacrifice windows users for mobile exports... Once ENIGMA becomes popular, more complete, and functional enough to get people to de-hypnotize and move over to ENIGMA, then watch YYG scramble and suddenly stop turning a deaf ear !!! I will never buy another version of Game Mangler again either. So I am looking forward to work with your product and see it grow, there are many things that I am not too pleased with your product yet, but I hope they will be addressed. I am looking forward to eventually build everything I do from scratch using LatteralGM and not importing anything. Should I give up hope or will this day happen ? They totally lost me with their YYC rubbish. Since it is a feature that should have been set from the first day of GM:S, as a major feature, instead of the LAUGHING JOKE of an incremental revision from 7 to 8.1, where many complained that it was not a major upgrade..... For the price were being ripped off, I reckon they could have offered the YYC to us GM:S Pro customers, or at least a significant discount on that plugin, not $300 for a YYC-Windows only export for fucksake!
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Goombert
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Reply #12 Posted on: January 22, 2014, 11:15:44 pm |
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Location: Cappuccino, CA Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2993
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Nah, maybe Jimmy Dean is right, I am going to try being a little more optimistic about things mates. YoYoGames is working very hard to try and bring GM up to speed with modern game design, whether or not they succeed is up to them. But let's try to not be so hard on the blokes, and reserve our criticism for only times when their software maliciously attacks the users, such as the DRM incident, aside from that, let's just wish them the best of luck. YYG, but not aware they were banning people. This was after one incident mate, those blokes got rightey upset when I fired off in a topic over their April Fools joke along with other users, I was banned from me favorite site and me awesome games and posts to help me fellow blokes were all removed. In fact, I was just discussin with me blokes on this forum the other day and linked a topic where I'm still quote'd. http://enigma-dev.org/forums/index.php?topic=1721.0How utterly disgusting. That said, even though we may disagree, your' alright 'ere mate with your critcisems' just don try to muck up me forum. I see some suggestions posted by people who want them to bring back ability for windows devs to use video playback ! I've partly added support for this mate! DirectShow is an extension which offers the basic video playback DND action, but I can expand it in the future, to render the video directly to a Direct3D surface, like Unity3D! Some of us don't fucking want ANYTHING to do with mobile apps !!! Right on mate! I am a PC Gamer too, and most of the mobile' game development is sheerly about profits and not quality and replayability, ignore the hype mate, it's not the future of gaming. This is where ENIGMA can shine......Don't cut windows users off and don't sacrifice windows users for mobile exports... Don't worry mate, your' alright your' alright.
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« Last Edit: January 22, 2014, 11:25:39 pm by Robert B Colton »
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I think it was Leonardo da Vinci who once said something along the lines of "If you build the robots, they will make games." or something to that effect.
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Jimmy_D
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Reply #13 Posted on: January 23, 2014, 02:35:01 pm |
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 69
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Nah, maybe Jimmy Dean is right, I am going to try being a little more optimistic about things mates. YoYoGames is working very hard to try and bring GM up to speed with modern game design, whether or not they succeed is up to them. But let's try to not be so hard on the blokes, and reserve our criticism for only times when their software maliciously attacks the users, such as the DRM incident, aside from that, let's just wish them the best of luck.
Ohhhh no !!!!!! they have gotten to him ! What happened there ? Either you are being very sarcastic or you acquired a suit case full of money YYG deserves to be criticised, not just for the DRM fiasco, but I think I gave many examples. It's good to critisise the right things though..... This was after one incident mate, those blokes got rightey upset when I fired off in a topic over their April Fools joke along with other users, I was banned from me favorite site and me awesome games and posts to help me fellow blokes
What have they done to you ? Is ENIGMA all a prank by YYG and you are really one of the devs at YYG ? Is that you Russel ? Yeah you know what I think, I think ENIGMA is a secret project from YYG I think this is a set up !!! A good work in psychology....... Create a ficticious competition of your own product, but make it incomplete, as to have your angry customers use it for some time then come back to your product and praise you ! Good piece of work! OR it could be that Robert is posessed (Or both ! ) Assuming all this is true and you got banned for those reasons only, that is indeed disgusting. Maybe there is more to it ? I thought YYG was more lenient than the average. I've seen lots of people bash when they decided to charge $300 for something that is worth maybe hundreds of $ less ($300 to be more precise lol) and those were not banned. That said, even though we may disagree, your' alright 'ere mate with your critcisems' just don try to muck up me forum.
Actually, you will find out in time that we agree more on things than you think At least you don't deny that the project needs a lot of work (documentation, compatibility, features, etc.) Which is a good step, admitting that you need work.......All of this whilst YYG is busy making "MODERN" games LMFAO ! If that's the true definition of modern I should kill myself Sounds like a bunch of people who never have seen what a modern game looks like..... Or they are probably still stuck in time with their old atari console and retro games.....But even that would be an insult because I am sure some of those old games would beat their "modern games" hands down ! I've partly added support for this mate! DirectShow is an extension which offers the basic video playback DND action, but I can expand it in the future, to render the video directly to a Direct3D surface, like Unity3D!
Actually that would be amazing, video could play back and other processes could continue.......One could make interactive menus / games, interactive adventure games with cut scenes blending in with the actual game footage. I mean this is nothing "new" by any standard, this has been done in many much older games.........But that would be too modern for YYG to handle - I see video playback in mobile games for fucksake, what's their excuse for charging $800 and not even including this function......They claim people can use a DLL LOL O RLY ? Which one ? There are none that do it.........You,d expect an $800 product to include basic functions which are available in FREE versions of competing products (Except Unity free edition of course) Right on mate! I am a PC Gamer too, and most of the mobile' game development is sheerly about profits and not quality and replayability, ignore the hype mate, it's not the future of gaming.
I think you are right, a lot of the games flooding the app stores were made with GM, do you care to guess now how much of that was made with a pirated copy of GM..........
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daz
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Reply #14 Posted on: January 23, 2014, 04:17:54 pm |
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 167
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Jimmy, you seem to have a very negative view of both GM and ENIGMA, so why use either? You say most games from them are shit, which honestly is true. There are some fantastic games made with GM (Hotline Miami, Stealth Bastard, Gun Point, and the original Spelunky). Sure you can look at these and call them "retro" because they're 2d -- the fact is, both GM and ENIGMA were designed for 2d games, not 3d. Both ENIGMA and GM support shaders. so yeah it's possible to create a high res 2d game with some beautiful effects. Just because a piece of software is powerful doesn't mean the user will be intelligent enough to utilize it.
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