Pages: « 1 2 3
  Print  
Author Topic: License Exemptions  (Read 17873 times)
Offline (Unknown gender) The 11th plague of Egypt
Reply #30 Posted on: June 28, 2013, 08:49:50 am
Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 274

View Profile
You're still assuming I could obtain a patent on any part of ENIGMA. Part of the requirements for obtaining a patent is that you actually have something unique. ENIGMA is a compiler, in the most generic sense. It wouldn't be very patent-worthy even if GM didn't exist.

We've been throwing around the idea of calling in some third-party help for writing this exception, but I'd want to try to request that help in a way that doesn't make this problem look completely petty. To an outside observer, it'd just look like me being a selfish child. A lot of this discussion is myself trying to figure out if that's in fact what I am being.
You would be surprised what they are getting a patent for nowadays. You just need a good lawyer to write it in the right legalese, and you are done.
I've talked to a professor who worked for various companies who used to file patents for their "great" inventions. He said once his workgroup suggested a possible patent.
Once the idea went through the lawyers and the text of the patent came back, they could not even recognize it.

First they grant you the patent, then whoever wants to challenge its obviousness will have to fight you in court.
On the premise that the patent was granted because it was not obvious.

EDIT: you are thinking about others, last time I checked this didn't match the definition of "selfish" xD
Writing an exception to include a runner is not that obvious. The GCC GPL2 classpath exception is short, but very well thought.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2013, 08:54:30 am by The 11th plague of Egypt » Logged
Offline (Unknown gender) forthevin
Reply #31 Posted on: June 28, 2013, 04:52:02 pm

Contributor
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 167

View Profile
The issue is definitely not petty. While permissive licenses fits well with some software, in my opinion they do not fit a lot of software. And I believe that ENIGMA is one such case. If there was a lot of excellent FOSS game engines licensed under effectively permissive licenses with feature sets similar to ENIGMA, it wouldn't make a lot of difference if ENIGMA was licensed under a copyleft license or an effectively permissive license, since the theoretical AMGINE based off ENIGMA could just as well be based on one of those other engines. But, given that there aren't really any open-source engines that are close to ENIGMA's feature set, let alone one which is effectively permissively licensed, I think it will make a lot of difference whether ENIGMA's license is copyleft or effectively permissive. If ENIGMA gets an effectively permissive license and someone creates AMGINE, all the work the contributors do will effectively be free work for AMGINE, which could sell the modifications of the ENIGMA contributors, without having to contribute back their own changes and improvements. That would likely result in a considerable reduction in development of ENIGMA, which would widen the gap even further between ENIGMA and AMGINE. In the end, ENIGMA would die out, and its legacy would be yet another proprietary game engine, probably as a commercial competitor to GameMaker with a somewhat different feature set. And that would not serve the users of neither ENIGMA, AMGINE or GameMaker, nor the contributors to ENIGMA.
Logged
Offline (Male) Josh @ Dreamland
Reply #32 Posted on: June 28, 2013, 05:47:02 pm

Prince of all Goldfish
Developer
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2950

View Profile Email
Spoken like gentlemen. I'll seek some third party help, likely at 11th's recommended site.
Logged
"That is the single most cryptic piece of code I have ever seen." -Master PobbleWobble
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." -Evelyn Beatrice Hall, Friends of Voltaire
Offline (Male) Sslaxx
Reply #33 Posted on: November 26, 2013, 06:56:12 pm

Member
Location: UK
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 72
AOL Instant Messenger - MrSslaxx Yahoo Instant Messenger - mrsslaxx
View Profile Email
If you're still looking into this, a possible alternative to the (L)GPL might be the Artistic License (version 2) - http://www.perlfoundation.org/artistic_license_2_0 - the most high-profile project I know of using this is another game creation package, Adventure Game Studio. It possesses GPL compatibility, thanks to the relicensing option in section 4(c)(ii). It may offer more protection.
Logged
Stuart "Sslaxx" Moore.
Offline (Unknown gender) CoinBR
Reply #34 Posted on: December 26, 2013, 07:13:41 pm
Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 7

View Profile
Hi guys,

I've read the full topic, and just would like to know if a final decision about this matter have already been made.

In case you wasn't able to solve this matter yet, I would like to know if the general opinion of the project leader's stills  conneted to what was manifested here (a.k.a. It's ok to create close-code games with Enigma. Just don't steal Enigma from the community)

Just want to know if you guys have he same vision you've manifested some months ago.

I wish all the best to Engima project =) I hope I get passionate and somehow support it in the future

Thank you for your time, and congratulations for the caring about this concern (license).
Logged
Offline (Male) cheeseboy
Reply #35 Posted on: December 26, 2013, 11:48:23 pm

Member
Location: The internet
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 105

View Profile
Hi guys,

I've read the full topic, and just would like to know if a final decision about this matter have already been made.

In case you wasn't able to solve this matter yet, I would like to know if the general opinion of the project leader's stills  conneted to what was manifested here (a.k.a. It's ok to create close-code games with Enigma. Just don't steal Enigma from the community)

Just want to know if you guys have he same vision you've manifested some months ago.

I wish all the best to Engima project =) I hope I get passionate and somehow support it in the future

Thank you for your time, and congratulations for the caring about this concern (license).

We haven't ironed out anything official yet but yes you can create a closed source commercial game if you want. We just don't want a commerial enigma for sale.
Logged
Offline (Unknown gender) CoinBR
Reply #36 Posted on: December 27, 2013, 01:34:43 pm
Member
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 7

View Profile
We haven't ironed out anything official yet but yes you can create a closed source commercial game if you want. We just don't want a commerial enigma for sale.

Sweet =)

Thank you.
Logged
Offline (Unknown gender) fervi
Reply #37 Posted on: December 27, 2013, 03:44:51 pm
Member
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 78

View Profile Email
Patents for software aren't avaliable in Europe, so in theory Enigma can be "created in Poland"

But Software Patents sucks ...

Fervi
Logged
Offline (Male) Jimmy_D
Reply #38 Posted on: January 17, 2014, 02:00:38 am
Member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 69

View Profile
You must be out of their minds !

All it would take is for some person to release a very popular game made with ENIGMA, one that does well and generate tons of revenues for someone out there to team up with a good lawyer and find ways to sue the developper of the said game.

BUT NO WORRIES !!!!  Because ENIGMA is in pre-alpha stage and you can't release decent shit enough for anybody to give a damn anyways.

Remember how a well known videogame company sued a fan for making a game (even free) that was similar  - even with a different name........ Does Pac Man ring a bell ?

So maybe by 2020 or 2045 once ENIGMA is a working product and people start earning revenues from it, someone somewhere will find a way to sue them.

Nobody in their right state of mind would use ENIGMA to release commercial (for profit) software.   The software is mainly aimed at lame kids who's mummy can't afford a few bucks to buy GM Standard, to make catch the clown and mario clones and cheap ripped imitations unoriginal crap.  :D

and who in their right mind would want to release their commercial games and having to release the source code with it..........LOL.

The compiled result of your game has enigma written all over it, all you need is a hex editor and you will see ENIGMA reference all over.

I have yet to hear of a person getting sued for their catch the clown miserable effortless attempt at a game.........:P


Logged
Offline (Male) Goombert
Reply #39 Posted on: January 17, 2014, 10:07:18 am

Developer
Location: Cappuccino, CA
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2993

View Profile
Nobody would use GM either, when they have in fact threatened to sue developers before for their games. Remember the iOS decompiler? Did they or did they not threaten people who were using it to publish to iOS stores? Because last time I checked it was definitely them, and they certainly love stiffling indie development. Just like they love destroying paid customers projects.
Logged
I think it was Leonardo da Vinci who once said something along the lines of "If you build the robots, they will make games." or something to that effect.

Offline (Unknown gender) Darkstar2
Reply #40 Posted on: February 01, 2014, 01:58:30 am
Member
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1238

View Profile Email
I didn't want to reply to his posts but I could not help some of the stuff is just ... wow !

You must be out of their minds !

Hmm you meant "your".  and speaking of out of your minds:

Quote
All it would take is for some person to release a very popular game made with ENIGMA, one that does well and generate tons of revenues for someone out there to team up with a good lawyer and find ways to sue the developper of the said game.

That does not make any sense.  Why would the developers of ENIGMA go after a game developer ? Providing you respected the terms of the licenses and you did not infringe any IP, and that your game is not similar to another game (if not mistaken one can get sued for having a similar game / similar design right?) then you should not worry.

Quote
BUT NO WORRIES !!!!  Because ENIGMA is in pre-alpha stage and you can't release decent shit enough for anybody to give a damn anyways.

LOL !!!  Too funny.  You clearly have not seen app stores and shareware windows games, some are so simple and not too complex and have had millions of downloads and done so well. and many of those games can be done with either GM or ENIGMA....pre-alpha.......wow that's extreme !   ::)

Quote
Remember how a well known videogame company sued a fan for making a game (even free) that was similar  - even with a different name........ Does Pac Man ring a bell ?

Yes Namco does not want anybody making Pac Man clones or even making game that resembles them.  So if even if you make a game with 100% original sprites, example a character going around and eating dots then you can get sued.  But what's your point ?  If your game is good enough and generates loads of cash, it would have to be substantial enough for lawyers to want to get involved, and by the time that happens you would have enough money to defend yourself, really this is silly.  People get their projects shut down and S&D, people actually getting sued, that's another story,it would have to be something substantial (gaining revenues) and breaching IP.

Quote
So maybe by 2020 or 2045 once ENIGMA is a working product and people start earning revenues from it, someone somewhere will find a way to sue them.

:P What are you doing here then ?  Sue them for what ? That is a baseless argument.  They might as well sue their competitors too.  They cannot sue for the use of GML, no way...the worst that can happen is a S&D and asked to remove any reference to GameMaker / YoYo, etc, but all that will be needed is some name changes and revamping the interface.  But again, it's not going to happen.

Quote
Nobody in their right state of mind would use ENIGMA to release commercial (for profit) software.   

Again, why ?   Not everyone is using these programs to make profits, but I disagree with your statement.  With clever coding / optimizing, good skills one can do miracles.
This is something I want to work on and getting skill (GML, structure, ) and who knows maybe moving into learning other languages.

Quote
The software is mainly aimed at lame kids who's mummy can't afford a few bucks to buy GM Standard, to make catch the clown and mario clones and cheap ripped imitations unoriginal crap.  :D

LOL!  People who do clones and imitations is because they are lazy or they don't have the skills to design their own stuff. I must confess i'm one of those who is not too skilled in making sprites, but at the same time I don't want to make mario clones or catch the clown.  And as far as kids, lot of adults use GM and ENIGMA.  Some "lame" adults make bad games too, you can see lot of them reviewed on sites like gamespot etc...... some people have amazing design skill but make games with poor playability, poor story, poor everything yet some people have poor graphic skills and yet their game has playability and a good story, and you have people who are skilled at both (mind you I think it's rare to have someone skilled on both, in my opinion, based on the stuff that gets released!) :)

Quote
and who in their right mind would want to release their commercial games and having to release the source code with it..........LOL.

What ?  you don't have to release your source code when compiling with ENIGMA........

Quote
The compiled result of your game has enigma written all over it, all you need is a hex editor and you will see ENIGMA reference all over.

Funniest thing I read today!

You clearly have absolutely no clue about games.  Do you think every game is coded in C++ from scratch or whatever language they use ?  You clearly have not seen the credits in many games, that clearly reference 3rd party engine they use, it's written all over the game and its files....Baseless argument again, the creator of the engine has to protect their IP !  the same way YoYo's runner is their IP and needs to be protected, so you will see reference to YoYoGames in the compile as well :P in ANY tool you use to create a file there will be a reference somewhere.   Do people buy games and use a hex editor to look for stuff and say "Oh noooes it's ENIGMA I won't buy it"  :P  People will play your game and judge it based on whether they liked it or not!

Quote
I have yet to hear of a person getting sued for their catch the clown miserable effortless attempt at a game.........:P

I know some people got S&D but have not heard of someone being sued and having to pay !

What was your name on GMC ?  :D
Logged
Pages: « 1 2 3
  Print