Illegal (and Legal) Drugs

[time-killer-games]

This topic we will discuss why or why not we support smoking, getting drunk or high. I personally believe that these thing though I won't deny they feel good their users, it is never a good idea for anyone to expose themselves to such a self destructive addiction. I'm well aware drug addicts of all kinds will argue to the death that less damaging drugs such as cannabis is not addictive. I can't tell you how many doctors I've talked with who all agree it's addicting, even the one's who admitted to doing such drugs they had no shame in admitting it's an addiction and that it would be in their lives' best interest if they stopped.

Also I'd like to point out that a friend of my family he works at a psychiatric hospital, aka the funny farm where all the mental cases go. He said that the majority of both teens and adults who go there and sleep there for a week or so to adjust their meds - almost all of them are either drug addicts or are there because of the cause and effect of their drug addictions. He even said that weed was the most common misused drug out of just about every patient he's seen come in those doors.

I'm not intending to insult anyone, I'll be more than happy to hear both sides, but the primary reason I posted this topic is because I find it important to get the word out that drugs aren't just an addiction, depressant and a demotivator they really can ultimately ruin your life. Kids don't learn this in the fourth grade for nothing my older sister gets wasted at a bare minimum of every other week. She's seeing Alcoholics anonymous now which is helping heck even though she gets drunk all the time, she actually admits the drugs are bad for her and that it's making her life worse the only reason it's so hard for her to stop is the addiction she already scientifically injected into her brain. It's very rare a drug addict admits they are addicted. My sister is living proof of the truth. She's even done scientific research about it.

A discussion isn't a discussion without two sides, so I'm all ears. :-)
TKG

[Goombert]

Well TKG the reason peoples attitudes are not like this towards drugs, is because we know for the most part it is not true.

[TheExDeus]

1) Everything can be addicting. It's not necessarily the substance itself, as everything giving a pleasurable sensation can, and mostly is, addicting. Like some are addicted to sex, others to chocolate. Even obesity is kind of an addiction. Some are addicted to adrenaline. And in universally all of these cases the addiction leads to something bad.
2) You can still use everything and do everything and not be addicted. Most people use alcohol in everyday life and only a small percentage is addicted to a point that their lives are in any way impacted. The same with junk food or anything else. The key is to keep it under control. The less you do it, the more pleasure it will give. The more you do it, the more you will need to get the previous sensation. Most people don't drink to get drunk though, or eat to fight hunger. The people with addiction usually has a lot different cause - often personal or social. I have never seen a person with 0 problems in his life turn to drinking.
3) Drugs which can be easily overdosed or can lead to permanent damage very easily, should of course be illegal and prohibited. That involves heroin, cocaine and other hard drugs. Drugs which can be used recreationally, are not so addictive and cannot be easily overdosed could remain legal with regulation. Like alcohol or tobacco. Even marihuana which is also quite safe. It's virtually impossible to overdose on weed and in this regard it is much safer than even alcohol. But all of this should be controlled. Like in many nations in Europe you cannot smoke in public places (this included most streets, cafes and in many cases your own home (if for example, you live in an apartment and somebody lives above you which can thus feel the smoke)) or be with an open alcohol bottle (or intoxicated). Also of course you cannot smoke in front of children and so on.

I personally drink (not as often as I used too, but still heavy alcohol maybe once a month at a party and regular beer once in a while in between). Several years ago hookah was very popular and I personally enjoy it a lot. I personally find that tobacco the perfect example of a drug which can be legal. Because of these reasons:
1) It is not really addictive. Usually it lacks several of the hard hitting ingredients needed for a more rapid addiction, as you don't for example feel "down" when not using it for a while. For example, there were some summers I smoked it every day for a month or two. Then I stopped for 5 months and didn't feel a thing.
2) It gives you a pleasurable sensation (buzz) the first time you use it. Almost all the drugs I know are usually not like this. Like, did you feel good the first time you smoked a cigarette? Most people feel awful. It tastes like shit, smells bad and gives no sensation. Cigarettes give you pleasure ONLY if you are addicted to them. This means that when you don't smoke it you feel like shit. You smoke it and you feel better. But you don't really feel better because of some great chemical, but because you just got what your body wanted. Like eating gives a pleasure when you haven't eaten in 3 days. The food itself doesn't give you pleasure though. Alcohol is the same. Of course if you limit yourself greatly, then even the first time drinking can be good, but most people just overdo it and it ends up shitty. On the other hand tobacco for hookah (we call it waterpipe) usually smells good (can be anything, fruits or even coca-cola), taste good (if used properly and nothing burns, then it tastes like fruit as well (depends on the flavor which are almost unlimited)) and gives a pleasurable buzz even for a first time user. Worst case scenario, you get a stomach ache.
3) It is usually healthier for several reasons. First, if you do it properly then nothing actually burns, you are basically drying the tobacco, so no ignition byproducts are inhaled. Second, just like alcohol, you usually don't use it every day like cigarettes, but only at parties and such. Third, it usually has less bad ingredients like not having tar, benzine or other regular cigarette stuff. Sometimes even freaking tea can be used instead of a tobacco (depends on the tea though... speaking from experience).
4) You cannot overdose it. In my life I have even overdosed alcohol (ended better than it could have, but even now living with some health consequences), while you can smoke waterpipe for hours without any problems. You might feel a slight stomach acke (especially if haven't smoked it for a while), but other than that you will be fine. Won't even puke. With weed the worst case is you will puke.

[Goombert]

Pffttt.

[time-killer-games]

You guys have very interesting views. Very insightful. I don't ever intend to do drugs my life is satisfied the way it is, even if I wasn't satisfied with it, I still won't mess with such drugs, mainly because I've heard plenty of sad stories involving the cause and effect of drugs that used real life examples to base everything. But all I know is that if drugs are as bad as the stories I've heard that just kinda goes back to why I posted this. I'd really hate to see you guys or anyone for that matter have their life ruined or taken because of drugs.

[Goombert]

Pooofff

[time-killer-games]

The tree of knowledge of good and evil was a plant, which grew naturally. God never said anywhere in the Bible "It's only wrong if it isn't natural" Things that are natural including wine, which the bible makes clear we are to be sober minded we should never get drunk. It's needless to say ye your right Jesus drank wine. That does not at all imply he got drunk. That doesn't at all mean he got a buzz here and there at the local bar the fact you even bother mentioning that Jesus drank wine raises a bit of a concern to me, because that honestly contributes nothing relevant to your initial argument.

When Adam sinned, it cursed the ground, and all of creation.Lions became meat eaters. Lambs became their prey. And cannabis started rotting lungs and people's brains. Also, "pot was rooted from Solomon's grave. Solomon was the wisest man alive" I've heared it all before. All of these excuses people make are both irrelevant to the argument they attempt to make and the connection they are implying is about as out there as outer space.

[Goombert]

Woof

[TheExDeus]

I think using god or religion in any argument is stupid and nonsensical. I believe I gave good argumented reasons for and against drugs.

[time-killer-games]

@Robert - Sorry about that Robert one of the biggest issues I have on the internet is coming across more abrasive than I intended. Hope I didn't insult you, I really didn't mean it.

[Ideka]

TKG check this out before saying drugs are addictive: http://mindhacks.com/2013/09/13/drug-addiction-the-complex-truth/

And anyway, anything in excess is bad.

[time-killer-games]

Somehow I think I'd rather believe the countless doctors I've talked with who know a lot more about this than me than to be gullible enough to to trust one untrustworthy source that for all I know was made up by some heroin addict. And I highly doubt what I heard about psych hospitals was a lie. Anyone with money can make their own website and write an article making all sorts of irrational claims posing as though they are stating facts instead of bullcrap.

Whether it's addicting or not isn't my point, my point is the it can really mess up people's lives. Someone who's never done self medicated drugs and never wanted to due to being perfectly happy, it should be no problem at all for them to say no to a beer, because they don't know what it feels like yet. But the problem here is - once someone knows that feeling there's no reversing it, and ultimately it will be much more difficult to resist getting drunk, high, or whatever you name it. It requires much more self control, and the ability for one to control them self is just about gone.

Once you know how good it feels, whether you want to slap the word addiction on it, doesn't change the facts.  You'll want to do it again and again every time something makes you depressed or when you don't get your way, or your just plain bored. Whatever the reason, you'll instantly remember that feeling and do whatever it takes to feel it again, even if it means taking the life of innocent people, your loved ones, even yourself. Why the heck do you think drunk driving is the most common cause for car crashes (which have the potential to kill) more than anything else? This is like a no brainer.

Once you want that feeling it doesn't matter who you hurt in the process, you'll find a way to get that feeling. I know a family in which the father was so in love with the needle he got upset by his wife for preventing him from getting his happy hour he threw his own baby into the wall and it's head got smashed in the process, killed his own child then beat his own wife. He's in jail now, and you guys are still trying to tell me drugs aren't addicting? Who the heck are you trying to fool? I'm not playing around these things actually happen and are quite common. I've met pot heads that stole money all the time and admitted to doing so for the sake of them being able to smoke.

FYI people who self medicate with drugs to feel good, apart from the people they brainwash, are the only people you'll find on this earth who think the drugs aren't addicting, why? Because they do them, that in itself is proof. I'm sorry but there comes to a point of which it gets rediculous. I don't know what else to say if no one intends to listen to my warnings I mention out of care, then I see no point in my further discussion. Feel free guys to continue talking about this, But I'm not going to take any further part in it.

[Goombert]

Loofa

[TheExDeus]

Whether it's addicting or not isn't my point, my point is the it can really mess up people's lives.

I think this is the main point. If it wasn't addicting, it wouldn't mess up anyone's life.

But the problem here is - once someone knows that feeling there's no reversing it, and ultimately it will be much more difficult to resist getting drunk, high, or whatever you name it. It requires much more self control, and the ability for one to control them self is just about gone.

Clearly as someone who hasn't even drunk a beer, you don't really know how it all works. I can assure you that drinking a beer once every few days doesn't make you an alcoholic, and sure as hell it doesn't make you drink more beer. I, like many people, drank a lot during high school years. Every Friday a party and many times hard liquor like vodka. After high school I drank a lot less and my preferences changed. I drank whiskey for a while and didn't like beer or vodka, now I drink beer (though small amounts) and don't like vodka or whiskey. By your logic I should of drank harder and harder until I either died or went to rehab. None of that happened. Even drinking every week for 3 months didn't make it an addiction, as I could not drink the next 3 without any problems. Addictions are not like binary switches with On or Off (and when you drink it's permanently On).

Once you know how good it feels, whether you want to slap the word addiction on it, doesn't change the facts.  You'll want to do it again and again every time something makes you depressed or when you don't get your way, or your just plain bored. Whatever the reason, you'll instantly remember that feeling and do whatever it takes to feel it again, even if it means taking the life of innocent people, your loved ones, even yourself. Why the heck do you think drunk driving is the most common cause for car crashes (which have the potential to kill) more than anything else? This is like a no brainer.

Reiterating my previous point - Addictions are not like a switch which turns on when you taste something. 99% of what makes an addiction is the person. There are some which can be addicted quite easy and of course people with some personal problems. Like our local tongue in cheek definition of alcoholism is this - Your are an alcoholic when you drink alone. The idea being that a person drinking without company probably does this because of some personal problems which of course will not be fixed by drinking. Thus they are never going to be fixed and the person will drink until his whole life goes to ruin. So it's not the addiction per se, but the personal problems.

FYI people who self medicate with drugs to feel good, apart from the people they brainwash, are the only people you'll find on this earth who think the drugs aren't addicting, why?

No one says drugs are not addicting. The point is that you clearly don't know what addiction is. You think that drinking a beer will make you an addict or that smoking weed will. No, none of these things by themselves make an addict.

it will be much more difficult to resist getting drunk, high, or whatever you name it

You can't even imagine how easy it is not to drink..... VERY easy. You just don't.

I don't know what else to say if no one intends to listen to my warnings I mention out of care

No offense, but as a person with 0 experience with alcohol or anything else you are clearly not competent enough to give any warnings. This lack of competence also is reflected in your words, because you preach, not teach.

[Goombert]

That is my point.