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Author Topic: ACTA  (Read 17255 times)
Offline (Male) retep998
Reply #15 Posted on: March 27, 2010, 09:44:49 pm

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Yep, because that's the plan of governments everywhere.
Whether or not they are aware that that is the end result of their actions, that is what all governments are heading towards.

@Everyone
Go read this
http://capitalism.org/tour/index.htm
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Offline (Unknown gender) Game_boy
Reply #16 Posted on: March 28, 2010, 05:05:34 am
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I don't believe in some vast conspiracy to reduce our freedom - however our respective governments, acting purely in self-interest and ignorance of what measures would actually work, have the net effect of reducing freedom.

Having lived in the US and UK for a number of years though, I can say that the UK has greater personal freedom. The US believe they have more of it though. But American culture was conformist - if you didn't fit in in some small way you were socially excluded and the authorities would work against you.

Examples:

- I questioned why we weren't being taught evolutionary biology, since it is a major part of science. Result: all other kids in class bullied me, calling me a 'non-believer' (as if that was a bad thing), and I never was able to have friends there.
- The school refused to provide support for my disability, even though the law required them to. Their reasoning was essentially that it would be giving me special treatment and they were afraid of complaints from other parents. I had to leave school after 2 years of trying to make them help, because they just would not do it (and not for lack of resources).
- No-one on our (suburban, relatively wealthy) street would talk to us since we did not attend church. The only Americans who would were a Jewish family not even from the state.
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Offline (Unknown gender) Bysheon
Reply #17 Posted on: March 28, 2010, 08:46:37 am
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I don't believe in some vast conspiracy to reduce our freedom - however our respective governments, acting purely in self-interest and ignorance of what measures would actually work, have the net effect of reducing freedom.

Having lived in the US and UK for a number of years though, I can say that the UK has greater personal freedom. The US believe they have more of it though. But American culture was conformist - if you didn't fit in in some small way you were socially excluded and the authorities would work against you.

It's not a conspiracy, it's an intention, methogically and systematically carried out for many decades by the concentrated power. The intention is to make the "herd" (us, the people, and USA-Americans in particular) apathetic and obedient and making us accept the outrageous US domestic and foreign politics - basically the opposite of what Robin Hood did, with the foreign politic also being ultra violent - but if necessary and/or possible, they will reduce our freedom in every way they can.

The concentrated power and their propaganda system (especially mainstream media) is making the American people apathetic and obedient, by making them

1. afraid of (insert random outer "threat")
2. distracted by bull shit (mind numbing entertainment, drugs, consumerism etc)
3. alienated from each other (which is why a free Internet is dangerous)
4. exhausted (all of the above + sugar + work until you drop)
 
It's very simple, and very effecient. And what the greedy, sociopathic and short-sighted Masters of the Universe are doing is very, very dangerous. Our species, and maybe all life on earth, is seriously threatened  - if not from nuclear blasts, from environmental disaster.


I don't direct this at you, I just want to say this. As much as I dislike a lot of things about and from the USA, I always get pissed of and sad when people are making fun of Americans. First of all, it's rasist. Second of all, it's misdirected frustration. It's not the people you should hate on, it's the concentrated power in the country - and more specifically, their crimes. And remember, the Americans are the ones that are going to change their country, from the inside, and our species might ultimately actually depend on that. 

And also, the 9/11 was, apart from it being a tragedy, a brutal awakening for a lot of them. The last decade those of them who didn't already knew have begun to ask sincear questions about their role in the world, and when they are beginning to realize some shit, they become outraged. We should help them.

Besides, pick any democratic country and you see the corporations and the governments fucking their people in the ass now, as 9/11 was a great excuse. Most of them are just much smaller players internationally, and therefore smaller thugs (in terms of size).

And yes, UK seems less conformist than the US, but that's a very general statement. USA is almost as big as Europe. Sure, they have those typical mid-western God-is-in-the-house pretty little towns with their Christian fundamentalist - where I guess you lived? - but also NYC, California, Boston etc. Not to mention all the sub cultures and minority communities.

I love the Internet. Free.


« Last Edit: March 28, 2010, 08:53:36 am by Bysheon » Logged
Offline (Female) IsmAvatar
Reply #18 Posted on: March 28, 2010, 08:51:26 am

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It's not a conspiracy

Conspiracy definition:
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1. the act of conspiring.
2. an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
3. a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose: He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.
4. in law: an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.
5. any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.

That sounds like a conspiracy if I ever heard it.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2010, 08:53:50 am by IsmAvatar » Logged
Offline (Unknown gender) Bysheon
Reply #19 Posted on: March 28, 2010, 08:56:27 am
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Sure. I just think conspiracy sounds a bit like fantasy, and mystical. I just meant that it's real, and a real intention.
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Offline (Unknown gender) Game_boy
Reply #20 Posted on: March 28, 2010, 11:47:21 am
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Like Ism said, if you believe that, you believe in a conspiracy. Not that you're wrong, just that I don't share that view. The only intention is to keep themselves in power (like any politician), and indirectly that reduces everyone's freedom. Look at Obama - he promised American voters so much, and now he's in power, he's so afraid of being criticised or losing votes that he won't introduce any real change at all. Consequence: health system stays broken, US Govt. supports ACTA, etc.

I'm not against Americans; if I meet one, and they will talk to me like a human being even though I'm not Christian and born in America, then that's perfectly fine. Sadly, the vast majority of people I met there were as bad as I said, especially those in a position to make my life difficult with their attitude (police, teachers, shop staff, elected representatives).

I saw FAR more racism from the Americans. We lived in an all-white neighbourhood and had an all-white school; most of the black population lived in a run-down and crime-ridden part of town well away from us; and Mexican people cut the grass. Completely segregated, by social pressure rather than legislation.

But I'm only against that specific mindset, and the people that share it.

The way it can be fixed is education. If more Americans knew something about outside their own borders (a minority of my state even owned a passport) then they would see why the rest of the world is different and learn to live with that.

The only conspiracy is unchecked self-interest, and mandated transparency and accountability would help with that.
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Offline (Female) IsmAvatar
Reply #21 Posted on: March 28, 2010, 04:50:12 pm

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Sure. I just think conspiracy sounds a bit like fantasy, and mystical. I just meant that it's real, and a real intention.
The fantasy/mystical part is "theory". Conspiracy Theory. Then again, it wouldn't be fact unless it could be proven, either a-priori, or with the confirmation and demonstration of the conspirators involved. Much like how the theory of Magnetism isn't a fact until we can either figure it out a-priori or until we get God to confirm and demonstrate it for us.
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Offline (Male) retep998
Reply #22 Posted on: March 28, 2010, 05:36:51 pm

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Sure. I just think conspiracy sounds a bit like fantasy, and mystical. I just meant that it's real, and a real intention.
The fantasy/mystical part is "theory". Conspiracy Theory. Then again, it wouldn't be fact unless it could be proven, either a-priori, or with the confirmation and demonstration of the conspirators involved. Much like how the theory of Magnetism isn't a fact until we can either figure it out a-priori or until we get God to confirm and demonstrate it for us.
I'm just waiting for the day when mathematics reaches the point where it actually proves the laws of physics.
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Offline (Male) Rusky
Reply #23 Posted on: March 28, 2010, 06:15:33 pm

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Yeah, because that's possible.
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Offline (Unknown gender) The 11th plague of Egypt
Reply #24 Posted on: March 29, 2010, 09:21:15 am
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I love the Internet. Free.
I hope we all agree on this one.
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Offline (Male) retep998
Reply #25 Posted on: March 29, 2010, 09:24:54 am

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I love the Internet. Free.
I don't love the Internet with ACTA. Not free.
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Offline (Male) retep998
Reply #26 Posted on: March 29, 2010, 10:24:11 am

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http://xkcd.com/553/

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Offline (Unknown gender) The 11th plague of Egypt
Reply #27 Posted on: April 21, 2010, 04:35:15 pm
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The leaked one was original, finally they released the treaty, although covering up the positions of the variuos States.

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/04/21/1247253/ACTA-Treaty-Released

The worst part so far is related to the so called "prior restraint", it means you can ban something because you have the suspect of a copyright violation.

Quote
Think about the SCO case: Perhaps SCO should have gotten an injuction to prevent anyone from distributing any version of Linux while the courts figured it all out. After all, they were claiming copyright infringement, exactly the type that would be covered in this treaty. SCO even brought the case to full fruition. This is 100% the type of case that can be subject to being enjoined. Imagine if that happened, and the judge decided that everyone that didn't have an SCO license also needed to take their Linux servers down for infringment.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2010, 04:39:33 pm by The 11th plague of Egypt » Logged
Offline (Male) retep998
Reply #28 Posted on: April 21, 2010, 04:54:59 pm

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I suspect that the ACTA is infringing my copyrights.
Let's go and use prior restraint on the ACTA, so it never gets passed.
Even if it turns out that they didn't infringe my copyrights, the ACTA people still have to go to jail for being accused of copyright infringement.
This is the kind of logic the ACTA will bring.
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Offline (Unknown gender) The 11th plague of Egypt
Reply #29 Posted on: May 08, 2010, 04:38:25 pm
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And there comes Google too

http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/05/08/193258/Google-Attorney-Slams-ACTA-Copyright-Treaty
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