ENIGMA Forums
General fluff => Off-Topic => Topic started by: retep998 on March 25, 2010, 11:38:44 pm
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http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5425059/ACTA_Agreement_leaked_ (http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5425059/ACTA_Agreement_leaked_)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Counterfeiting_Trade_Agreement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Counterfeiting_Trade_Agreement)
This is the end of us all.
Here are some key points
*It's international
*Guilty until proven innocent
*Companies and governments can completely invade your privacy on the slightest suspicion without a warrant
*There's no legal due process. Once you are charged, you're screwed since you can't defend yourself.
*DRM protected media would not be legally playable with free software, so no longer can you play DRM-protected games on linux, nor Wine. So if you don't want to buy windows, then you can't play games you bought legitly.
*Every single little nub who makes a clone using gm and ripped graphics can be prosecuted, and that nub can't do jack shit about it. There goes our future coders...
*If you play one of those clones, you broke the law.
*If you copy a track off a cd onto your mp3 player, you broke the law.
*If you lend your friend a cd or a dvd, you broke the law
*If you do ANYTHING with your digital media, except listen to/watch/play it as it is, you are screwed.
It's not too late to stop them!
Petition your local representative!
Become an objectivist! (Go read some Ayn Rand)
Resist government regulations!
Support laissez-faire capitalism!
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To the irc's! (nana nana nana nana nana nana nana nana LINUX!)
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yeah um not everyone lives in the us/uk, care to mention what region this is
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yeah um not everyone lives in the us/uk, care to mention what region this is
*It's international
That's the point. It's a secret trading agreement on a worldwide scale.
It's an anti-democratic project which is avoiding public scrutiny.
This is not the new DMCA, it's ten times worse.
Here are some alternative download links. The Pirate Bay is tracked.
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/03/24/1214239/Full-ACTA-Leak-Online?art_pos=1
The EU parliament already rejected it, but it's still being negotiated.
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/03/10/1449259/EU-Parliament-Rejects-ACTA-In-a-663-To-13-Vote
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I hope that Obama keeps that stance on internet privacy he told everyone he had during elections.
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1) This is nothing new. The government already has such capabilities from the 9/11 terrorist attack rush legislations. They can suspect you of being a terrorist without evidence, and then essentially make you disappear, where you can undergo tortures (no Habeus Corpus). I don't see why they don't just define piracy as an act of terrorism, rather than rewriting the whole text.
I hope that Obama keeps that stance on internet privacy he told everyone he had during elections.
Just like all the other promises he's kept from election time.
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The comment from Juas on TPB is so true:
Am I scared? no.
Will this stop me from downloading things? no.
Am I enraged? yes.
They cant throw the whole world in jail, so fuck them. If they start doing stupid laws noone can follow, you can start seeing an uprise of lawbreakers which at the end, just difficults things for big brother.
So, business as usual, my friends. They cant do shit to us and they know it well.
Unless ISPs want to lose 90% of their customerbase, which is retarded if you ask me.
EDIT:
Who can get the longest sentence in prision? :P
I got dips
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ACTA is the single scariest piece of legislation ever devised.
My country's Parliament (UK) doesn't even get to decide whether it is implemented or not. The decision is taken by EU bodies which are unelected, undemocratic and behind closed doors.
I was going to write to my MEP (even though the European Parliament has no power over it) but they've already passed a near-unanimous resolution saying they don't like it very much. But that isn't binding or anything, it won't stop it.
The hilarious part is that it won't actually hinder committed pirates who always download stuff. It'll just reduce freedom for the rest of us, like the DMCA did in the US.
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The hilarious part is that it won't actually hinder committed pirates who always download stuff. It'll just reduce freedom for the rest of us, like the DMCA did in the US.
It's not hilarious. The whole point of the ACTA is to restrict our freedom. Piracy is only a coverup act, just like the other laws the government does.
Like, a guy says something horrible. The government censors that saying that it was so horrible, so the people are fine with it. But then the government censors people who talk about the corruption of the government, but the government doesn't like them so they censor them. If the people complain about that, the government uses that first guy as an excuse, thereby reducing the complaints. Soon, they'll censor every single thing they don't like.
There is no such thing as partial freedom.
Either you are free,
or you are not free.
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Yeah, because all governments want to do is restrict freedom. Piracy is just an excuse.
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Yeah, because all governments want to do is restrict freedom. Piracy is just an excuse.
but not the US because we are AMERICAN
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Yeah, because all governments want to do is restrict freedom. Piracy is just an excuse.
but not the US because we are AMERICAN
Come again?
Just because we are free relative to the peepz in europe,
does not mean we are free in absolute terms.
The US has it's share of freedom-restricting measures.
Just take a look at...
nearly all of the US budget!
The patriot act, the DMCA, a whole bunch of laws and loopholes which give the government the right to go against your rights.
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Just because we are free relative to the peepz in europe,
does not mean we are free in absolute terms.
Woah, woah, woah. I thought:
There is no such thing as partial freedom.
Either you are free,
or you are not free.
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Just because we are free relative to the peepz in europe,
does not mean we are free in absolute terms.
Woah, woah, woah. I thought:
There is no such thing as partial freedom.
Either you are free,
or you are not free.
Ah yes.
There's 2 kinds of freedom:
Absolute Freedom which we got close to in the early years of the US, but we've been receding from ever since. Here freedom is a right.
Illusionary freedom, when you have some freedom, to keep you from rebelling while the government trains you to accept less freedom, until you are no longer free. Here freedom is a privilege.
But regardless of semantics, action should be taken to stop the government from further reducing the little freedom we have.
TO ACTION FELLOW OBJECTIVISTS!!!
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Yep, because that's the plan of governments everywhere.
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Yep, because that's the plan of governments everywhere.
Whether or not they are aware that that is the end result of their actions, that is what all governments are heading towards.
@Everyone
Go read this
http://capitalism.org/tour/index.htm (http://capitalism.org/tour/index.htm)
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I don't believe in some vast conspiracy to reduce our freedom - however our respective governments, acting purely in self-interest and ignorance of what measures would actually work, have the net effect of reducing freedom.
Having lived in the US and UK for a number of years though, I can say that the UK has greater personal freedom. The US believe they have more of it though. But American culture was conformist - if you didn't fit in in some small way you were socially excluded and the authorities would work against you.
Examples:
- I questioned why we weren't being taught evolutionary biology, since it is a major part of science. Result: all other kids in class bullied me, calling me a 'non-believer' (as if that was a bad thing), and I never was able to have friends there.
- The school refused to provide support for my disability, even though the law required them to. Their reasoning was essentially that it would be giving me special treatment and they were afraid of complaints from other parents. I had to leave school after 2 years of trying to make them help, because they just would not do it (and not for lack of resources).
- No-one on our (suburban, relatively wealthy) street would talk to us since we did not attend church. The only Americans who would were a Jewish family not even from the state.
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I don't believe in some vast conspiracy to reduce our freedom - however our respective governments, acting purely in self-interest and ignorance of what measures would actually work, have the net effect of reducing freedom.
Having lived in the US and UK for a number of years though, I can say that the UK has greater personal freedom. The US believe they have more of it though. But American culture was conformist - if you didn't fit in in some small way you were socially excluded and the authorities would work against you.
It's not a conspiracy, it's an intention, methogically and systematically carried out for many decades by the concentrated power. The intention is to make the "herd" (us, the people, and USA-Americans in particular) apathetic and obedient and making us accept the outrageous US domestic and foreign politics - basically the opposite of what Robin Hood did, with the foreign politic also being ultra violent - but if necessary and/or possible, they will reduce our freedom in every way they can.
The concentrated power and their propaganda system (especially mainstream media) is making the American people apathetic and obedient, by making them
1. afraid of (insert random outer "threat")
2. distracted by bull shit (mind numbing entertainment, drugs, consumerism etc)
3. alienated from each other (which is why a free Internet is dangerous)
4. exhausted (all of the above + sugar + work until you drop)
It's very simple, and very effecient. And what the greedy, sociopathic and short-sighted Masters of the Universe are doing is very, very dangerous. Our species, and maybe all life on earth, is seriously threatened - if not from nuclear blasts, from environmental disaster.
I don't direct this at you, I just want to say this. As much as I dislike a lot of things about and from the USA, I always get pissed of and sad when people are making fun of Americans. First of all, it's rasist. Second of all, it's misdirected frustration. It's not the people you should hate on, it's the concentrated power in the country - and more specifically, their crimes. And remember, the Americans are the ones that are going to change their country, from the inside, and our species might ultimately actually depend on that.
And also, the 9/11 was, apart from it being a tragedy, a brutal awakening for a lot of them. The last decade those of them who didn't already knew have begun to ask sincear questions about their role in the world, and when they are beginning to realize some shit, they become outraged. We should help them.
Besides, pick any democratic country and you see the corporations and the governments fucking their people in the ass now, as 9/11 was a great excuse. Most of them are just much smaller players internationally, and therefore smaller thugs (in terms of size).
And yes, UK seems less conformist than the US, but that's a very general statement. USA is almost as big as Europe. Sure, they have those typical mid-western God-is-in-the-house pretty little towns with their Christian fundamentalist - where I guess you lived? - but also NYC, California, Boston etc. Not to mention all the sub cultures and minority communities.
I love the Internet. Free.
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It's not a conspiracy
Conspiracy definition:
1. the act of conspiring.
2. an evil, unlawful, treacherous, or surreptitious plan formulated in secret by two or more persons; plot.
3. a combination of persons for a secret, unlawful, or evil purpose: He joined the conspiracy to overthrow the government.
4. in law: an agreement by two or more persons to commit a crime, fraud, or other wrongful act.
5. any concurrence in action; combination in bringing about a given result.
That sounds like a conspiracy if I ever heard it.
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Sure. I just think conspiracy sounds a bit like fantasy, and mystical. I just meant that it's real, and a real intention.
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Like Ism said, if you believe that, you believe in a conspiracy. Not that you're wrong, just that I don't share that view. The only intention is to keep themselves in power (like any politician), and indirectly that reduces everyone's freedom. Look at Obama - he promised American voters so much, and now he's in power, he's so afraid of being criticised or losing votes that he won't introduce any real change at all. Consequence: health system stays broken, US Govt. supports ACTA, etc.
I'm not against Americans; if I meet one, and they will talk to me like a human being even though I'm not Christian and born in America, then that's perfectly fine. Sadly, the vast majority of people I met there were as bad as I said, especially those in a position to make my life difficult with their attitude (police, teachers, shop staff, elected representatives).
I saw FAR more racism from the Americans. We lived in an all-white neighbourhood and had an all-white school; most of the black population lived in a run-down and crime-ridden part of town well away from us; and Mexican people cut the grass. Completely segregated, by social pressure rather than legislation.
But I'm only against that specific mindset, and the people that share it.
The way it can be fixed is education. If more Americans knew something about outside their own borders (a minority of my state even owned a passport) then they would see why the rest of the world is different and learn to live with that.
The only conspiracy is unchecked self-interest, and mandated transparency and accountability would help with that.
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Sure. I just think conspiracy sounds a bit like fantasy, and mystical. I just meant that it's real, and a real intention.
The fantasy/mystical part is "theory". Conspiracy Theory. Then again, it wouldn't be fact unless it could be proven, either a-priori, or with the confirmation and demonstration of the conspirators involved. Much like how the theory of Magnetism isn't a fact until we can either figure it out a-priori or until we get God to confirm and demonstrate it for us.
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Sure. I just think conspiracy sounds a bit like fantasy, and mystical. I just meant that it's real, and a real intention.
The fantasy/mystical part is "theory". Conspiracy Theory. Then again, it wouldn't be fact unless it could be proven, either a-priori, or with the confirmation and demonstration of the conspirators involved. Much like how the theory of Magnetism isn't a fact until we can either figure it out a-priori or until we get God to confirm and demonstrate it for us.
I'm just waiting for the day when mathematics reaches the point where it actually proves the laws of physics.
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Yeah, because that's possible.
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I love the Internet. Free.
I hope we all agree on this one.
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I love the Internet. Free.
I don't love the Internet with ACTA. Not free.
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http://xkcd.com/553/ (http://xkcd.com/553/)
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The leaked one was original, finally they released the treaty, although covering up the positions of the variuos States.
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/04/21/1247253/ACTA-Treaty-Released
The worst part so far is related to the so called "prior restraint", it means you can ban something because you have the suspect of a copyright violation.
Think about the SCO case: Perhaps SCO should have gotten an injuction to prevent anyone from distributing any version of Linux while the courts figured it all out. After all, they were claiming copyright infringement, exactly the type that would be covered in this treaty. SCO even brought the case to full fruition. This is 100% the type of case that can be subject to being enjoined. Imagine if that happened, and the judge decided that everyone that didn't have an SCO license also needed to take their Linux servers down for infringment.
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I suspect that the ACTA is infringing my copyrights.
Let's go and use prior restraint on the ACTA, so it never gets passed.
Even if it turns out that they didn't infringe my copyrights, the ACTA people still have to go to jail for being accused of copyright infringement.
This is the kind of logic the ACTA will bring.
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And there comes Google too
http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/05/08/193258/Google-Attorney-Slams-ACTA-Copyright-Treaty
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I always knew I could count on google to protect our rights.
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dot dot dot
That's sarcasm, right?
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:troll:
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(http://enigma-dev.org/forums/Smileys/somethingawful/troll.png)
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That's sarcasm, right?
WRONG :police:
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:troll: (http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk180/zeldera/Trolls.png)
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Now here is someone I can trust. FSF gets in the way! (http://yro.slashdot.org/story/10/06/17/1547216/FSF-Starts-Anti-ACTA-Campaign)
Here is the petition ! (http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/acta/acta-declaration/)