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2146
Off-Topic / Re: The grand c++ vs everyone else debate
« on: April 06, 2010, 08:24:07 pm »
"(such as register allocation)"
I know Java lacks "unsigned," but I figure Java programmers would know about flags such as that and "register," which, as you say, 'allocates' a register. Not in Visual Studio, of course, as Microsoft shares the new philosophy that some day, computers will be able to run Windows 7 and Crisis! By that point in time, a typical programmer won't even need to know what a register is, or deal with nasty, old C++. Unless they intend to program for something other than the PC.
I know Java lacks "unsigned," but I figure Java programmers would know about flags such as that and "register," which, as you say, 'allocates' a register. Not in Visual Studio, of course, as Microsoft shares the new philosophy that some day, computers will be able to run Windows 7 and Crisis! By that point in time, a typical programmer won't even need to know what a register is, or deal with nasty, old C++. Unless they intend to program for something other than the PC.
2147
Off-Topic / Re: The grand c++ vs everyone else debate
« on: April 06, 2010, 01:34:07 pm »
I see people comparing the Java-C++ relationship to that of C++-assembly. The difference seems to be that in C++, I can say asm("") to get to a faster language. In Java, you're pretty much stuck with what you have. Getting ENIGMA, as a DLL, to work with LateralGM has been one of the most tedious processes I've ever undergone while programming. The only worse experience was in GML, where I'm never sure if it's an error or if I'm truly missing something (twice out of three it's proven to be the former; the third time was inconclusive). But that's neither here nor there.
I am reasonably certain that everyone in this topic is aware of the concept of JIT compilation. It offers a lot of neat tricks. The problem is, it requires a large runtime that isn't necessarily portable to all systems.
High, high level scripting languages (GML is NOT in this group; GML offers so amazingly little that it isn't funny), I'm talking mostly about Python and Haskell, maybe even Lua (though I'm not aware of the particulars of that language), are relatively easy to embed in a C++-compiled program. By relatively, I mean easily done with a good library. Granted, true interface is difficult, but small-scale embedding is just not that hard to pull off. My best example is JavaScript via V8, hence me considering using it for the interpreter. V8 seamlessly integrates the two languages; I can call JavaScript from C++; the JavaScript can call C++ methods and functions. And it's JIT compiled, which means it has amazing speed relative to regular, interpreted versions.
I am reasonably certain that everyone in this topic is aware of the concept of JIT compilation. It offers a lot of neat tricks. The problem is, it requires a large runtime that isn't necessarily portable to all systems.
High, high level scripting languages (GML is NOT in this group; GML offers so amazingly little that it isn't funny), I'm talking mostly about Python and Haskell, maybe even Lua (though I'm not aware of the particulars of that language), are relatively easy to embed in a C++-compiled program. By relatively, I mean easily done with a good library. Granted, true interface is difficult, but small-scale embedding is just not that hard to pull off. My best example is JavaScript via V8, hence me considering using it for the interpreter. V8 seamlessly integrates the two languages; I can call JavaScript from C++; the JavaScript can call C++ methods and functions. And it's JIT compiled, which means it has amazing speed relative to regular, interpreted versions.
2148
Announcements / Re: Anaphase
« on: April 05, 2010, 03:11:22 pm »
"Proving all indexes to be in-bounds at compile-time is perfectly possible."
Given a large number of conditions are met, sure.
"C++ is the best PERIOD"
Don't put words in my mouth. C++ is the best for me.
Given a large number of conditions are met, sure.
"C++ is the best PERIOD"
Don't put words in my mouth. C++ is the best for me.
2149
Function Peer Review / Re: Brainstorming
« on: April 05, 2010, 01:10:02 pm »
R1 used templates for parameters for a while. I thought it was a great idea at the time, praised Dylan for it... It's a terrible idea in retrospect.
2150
Off-Topic / Re: where to learn C++
« on: April 05, 2010, 01:05:17 pm »
"It's that cplusplus.com has a terrible way of explaining them."
This is what I was thinking. Hopefully using them in ENIGMA breaks down the disoriented feeling you get when working with C++ for the first time. This way, you don't have to cope with the loss of knowledge of all the language's functions.
This is what I was thinking. Hopefully using them in ENIGMA breaks down the disoriented feeling you get when working with C++ for the first time. This way, you don't have to cope with the loss of knowledge of all the language's functions.
2151
Announcements / Re: Anaphase
« on: April 05, 2010, 08:42:04 am »
Thanks for understanding, guys. Does mean a lot.
freezway: I promise.
freezway: I promise.
2152
Announcements / Re: Anaphase
« on: April 04, 2010, 11:37:08 pm »
MrJackSparrow2:
I believe you're right that the iPhone is some sort of Unix. If nothing else, I know C++ is an option on it. If the iPhone has its own GCC, porting will be basically effortless. However, acquiring the API will be tedious for not only me, but users. Apple requires licenses and multiple-hundred-megabyte downloads to develop anything.
Too much work to port? Nah. To acquire? Possibly. It is something I would like to see happen. I'd say the odds are better than XBox 360, but I lack the info to make an educated guess on how that will turn out.
Freezway:
None of the UI tricks from R3 work. I'm unsure of with() and (a).b's standings following this last edit. What does work is finding the GCC, parsing the ENIGMA engine (this is the HUGE accomplishment of R4) parsing... local? Seems to work now; conducting further testing as we speak. Collision system is a no until it stops being "barf." Ism's status is "I can't really think right now. Ask me again tomorrow or something," meaning successful output redirection (as in R4) is not happening tonight. I have been putting off projects and homework for the last week working, so I need to allocate three hours or so tomorrow to the cause. Compiling a basic game has worked off and on as I made fundamental changes in structure for the sake of organization and faster compile. Organization is in preparation for more easily replaced systems (particularly the window system, which will change constantly from platform to platform). Distinguishing that version works, thanks to locating the GCC (which also works, as mentioned above).
I believe you're right that the iPhone is some sort of Unix. If nothing else, I know C++ is an option on it. If the iPhone has its own GCC, porting will be basically effortless. However, acquiring the API will be tedious for not only me, but users. Apple requires licenses and multiple-hundred-megabyte downloads to develop anything.
Too much work to port? Nah. To acquire? Possibly. It is something I would like to see happen. I'd say the odds are better than XBox 360, but I lack the info to make an educated guess on how that will turn out.
Freezway:
None of the UI tricks from R3 work. I'm unsure of with() and (a).b's standings following this last edit. What does work is finding the GCC, parsing the ENIGMA engine (this is the HUGE accomplishment of R4) parsing... local? Seems to work now; conducting further testing as we speak. Collision system is a no until it stops being "barf." Ism's status is "I can't really think right now. Ask me again tomorrow or something," meaning successful output redirection (as in R4) is not happening tonight. I have been putting off projects and homework for the last week working, so I need to allocate three hours or so tomorrow to the cause. Compiling a basic game has worked off and on as I made fundamental changes in structure for the sake of organization and faster compile. Organization is in preparation for more easily replaced systems (particularly the window system, which will change constantly from platform to platform). Distinguishing that version works, thanks to locating the GCC (which also works, as mentioned above).
Quote
Oh Josh, how will files and such work? I am eagerly learning C++. Will I be able to see the output files? I'm sure it will look like shit due to parsing taking out syntax tabbing but I'll live. Is this a possibility; seeing the C++ before it compiles?You can look at all the object code you want by going to the Preprocessor_Environment_Editable/ folder and looking at the sources therein. You'll want IDE_EDIT_object*.cpp. The code will be missing comments from the original GML, but will be decently well-structured and possible auto-commented.
Quote
Also, I don't know C++ very well, but I think I heard you can compile sort of "engines" into lib files I think. Could we possibly make a lib for the collision system to cut compile time? I'm sorry if I got this completely wrong, as I said I'm a damn n00b with C++.Presently the majority of the engine is left in unlinked object files to save time. Linking them into one big engine file could possibly save more time, and has been a consideration for some time. I have no figures. But yes, that's a good idea and is worth looking into.
2153
Announcements / Re: Anaphase
« on: April 04, 2010, 10:41:23 pm »
I'm trying, I'm trying. I really am. But every time I make some kind of progress with ENIGMA, the Java end is one step further behind. At present we can't even display compiler output, so if we don't get it corrected, users will have to run the jar from the terminal every time, and that's really annoying. (At least to me.)
Plus, I'd then have to convey that to everyone.
All syntax check output is also terminal-only; Ism is going to add a status bar, but I don't know when...
I've been doing my own debugging and am still finding enough small problems to not justify asking anyone else for them. Really, I'm better off waiting, I've decided... It pains me to do so, especially after how promising it looked even hours ago, but I keep just assuming that all the communication and such will just go smoothly one of these revisions. Luda calls me a relentless optimist.
In the last five days, ENIGMA's revision cound has approximately doubled. We have gone through more than 50 of them; each time I commit something, Ism adds something, and vice-versa. It's a seemingly never-ending cycle; the good news is that it means progress every iteration.
Those who check out the SVN repo can probably compile themselves a working version, and in fact, would probably be better off. I've not recently checked for what files are missing, but will probably do that shortly. If all the files are there, it will work. If some are missing or out of date, the compile may fail, or the project may just not work without warning. That's what we're looking at right now until we can get some real ground laid.
Luda describes the current state of Colligma as vomit, or something like that I think his wording contained "barf." Needless to say, it's not exactly plug-and-play material.
Really, I'm hoping serp will step back in and just do something I'm afraid to; like release a program that can't convey its own syntax check information.
Plus, I'd then have to convey that to everyone.
All syntax check output is also terminal-only; Ism is going to add a status bar, but I don't know when...
I've been doing my own debugging and am still finding enough small problems to not justify asking anyone else for them. Really, I'm better off waiting, I've decided... It pains me to do so, especially after how promising it looked even hours ago, but I keep just assuming that all the communication and such will just go smoothly one of these revisions. Luda calls me a relentless optimist.
In the last five days, ENIGMA's revision cound has approximately doubled. We have gone through more than 50 of them; each time I commit something, Ism adds something, and vice-versa. It's a seemingly never-ending cycle; the good news is that it means progress every iteration.
Those who check out the SVN repo can probably compile themselves a working version, and in fact, would probably be better off. I've not recently checked for what files are missing, but will probably do that shortly. If all the files are there, it will work. If some are missing or out of date, the compile may fail, or the project may just not work without warning. That's what we're looking at right now until we can get some real ground laid.
Luda describes the current state of Colligma as vomit, or something like that I think his wording contained "barf." Needless to say, it's not exactly plug-and-play material.
Really, I'm hoping serp will step back in and just do something I'm afraid to; like release a program that can't convey its own syntax check information.
2154
Off-Topic / Re: where to learn C++
« on: April 04, 2010, 02:30:19 pm »
Perfect. You can read over the pointers section of my ENIGMA manual and tell me how to improve. Your questions will fuel its revisions process.
I'll include it with the release.
I'll include it with the release.
2155
Announcements / Re: Anaphase
« on: April 04, 2010, 02:10:10 pm »
Indeed, I am on Ubuntu.
Ism is also presently on Ubuntu.
I run 9.04, Ism 9.10.
I've not seen Luda today. Easter festivities are underway here, presumably where Luda is, too. Happy Easter, everyone. A lot of trinkets hinge on further teamwork, but I can at least give you all something that compiles under the new system to promote development.
Something will be released today. What all it can do... I can't presently determine.
Ism is also presently on Ubuntu.
I run 9.04, Ism 9.10.
I've not seen Luda today. Easter festivities are underway here, presumably where Luda is, too. Happy Easter, everyone. A lot of trinkets hinge on further teamwork, but I can at least give you all something that compiles under the new system to promote development.
Something will be released today. What all it can do... I can't presently determine.
2156
Announcements / Re: Anaphase
« on: April 04, 2010, 12:09:41 am »
That will be epic in sufficient proportions. ^_^
2157
Announcements / Re: Anaphase
« on: April 03, 2010, 11:14:31 pm »
On Easter, you mean?
Can strive for.
Can strive for.
2158
Announcements / Re: Anaphase
« on: April 03, 2010, 10:09:43 pm »
Freezway-
I'm typing from my Linux box now. Works exactly as well on Linux as on Windows. I word it that way because this isn't my standard of "working" on either platform. Ism is adding a status bar to display line number and syntax error string... I offered to recode a textbox for her if she got this ready for release. I'm not sure when to stop adding features and just release the thing... I wanted the UI to be comfortable at least...
I'm torn. I met my date to the best of my ability, and the Java-C++ communication is still in pieces. So I figure I'll just sit here asking what to do while I work. XD
I'm typing from my Linux box now. Works exactly as well on Linux as on Windows. I word it that way because this isn't my standard of "working" on either platform. Ism is adding a status bar to display line number and syntax error string... I offered to recode a textbox for her if she got this ready for release. I'm not sure when to stop adding features and just release the thing... I wanted the UI to be comfortable at least...
I'm torn. I met my date to the best of my ability, and the Java-C++ communication is still in pieces. So I figure I'll just sit here asking what to do while I work. XD
2159
Announcements / Re: Anaphase
« on: April 03, 2010, 10:02:10 pm »
Sweet Christmas, yes. I couldn't even conceive otherwise with a clean conscience. That function ruins EVERYTHING.
-Syntax check fails to report the error, but completes successfully.
-Output redirection is still a no-go.
Should I release?
-Syntax check fails to report the error, but completes successfully.
-Output redirection is still a no-go.
Should I release?
2160
Announcements / Re: Anaphase
« on: April 03, 2010, 09:14:11 pm »
Indeed. We tried making the syntax checker free of R3's file-pass method. It looked like this:
Checkpoint 1. Script count 85858264, address 0x51e1b98
Script 0 is named
This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way.
Please contact the application's support team for more information.
's a pretty long script name.
Checkpoint 1. Script count 85858264, address 0x51e1b98
Script 0 is named
This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way.
Please contact the application's support team for more information.
's a pretty long script name.
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