Darkstar, this is what everybody keeps missing. I actually mostly agree with you (disagree with a few things I'll point out below), but this is not about who's right or who's wrong. It's about fundies driving people effing crazy.
Right so I guess in this world, you cannot be both competent and driving people crazy at the same time, unless you are a president
or other politician(s)
I understand the point which is what makes things difficult because sometimes a person can be extremely talented and skills but somehow they sink themselves into a hole - People tend to forget easily and will look mostly at the negative traits of a person no matter how much you contributed, I know first hand
It does not matter if you work 5 years, 20 years 40 years for a company, the moment there is lack of chemistry and your views do not agree with someone important enough you are done - some companies care more of their image than their profits, I'm not saying this is the case here, this is just some fucked up random example
Point being, a flamer, troll etc who has no use would get kicked out, what about one that is a good asset (and not just an ASS
) is BANNING the only solution ? Or would exploring other methods first be better then banning for last if all else fails .........
If people want to read the kind of disparaging, racy, vulgar garbage he writes, they should go somewhere else and not be on a game engine project.
Nope people do not want to read ONLY that, people who know him can tolerate it to some extent, newer people or some with lower threshold might not, again, is removing your big asset the ONLY solution that is the question, and not whether it is ok to subject people to such conduct. Some people know that shit is said online, and most of the time it is not meant, and that some people only do that to draw attention and most importantly REACTION, this is not to say that there are no genuinely mean and disgusting people who mean everything they write, but that's another story. Sexual tension is quite high around these parts, and on Discord too, perhaps more wanking - nothing like a good wank before a long coding session right ?
Good points are made on either side, question is not who is right or wrong, question is were there any other solutions ?
As far as I remember there was some racy, vulgar and disparaging shit written in ENIGMA's own code, which gets distributed to everyone, which is worse, in your opinion, ok when I joined the project I channeled it out, but some people would normally just be offended and say fuck off, yet nobody seemed to mine back in the days that there were some vulgar comments and references inside the C++ code.
I also hate this entire topic because none of it is genuine. It's just an attempt for him to make everybody feel sorry for him and stir dissent. That doesn't happen after you've gone and insulted or pissed off literally everybody who tried to help you.
Well I guess that's how some people show their gratitude and appreciation, maybe they do not mean to "insult" - I see people around talking shit to one another whilst at work, then after work next thing you know they are at the same orgy session.
What's the use of dedicating years of effort to something to in the end get destroyed right ?
[quoite=Goombert]
This is by no means a break from the norm, most time is spent on software maintenance not design or development. According to a publication from Cambridge University's Business School, programmers spend 50.1% of their time debugging software (page 5 of the pdf).
[/quote]
I agree, my point was not about enigma it was about in general, LIFE, what's the fucking use anyways, some people work their tits off to succeed and make something of their life, only to get strings of bad luck and destruction of everything they worked for, I meant that, not code, yes you are right, a lot of time is spent on maintenance, most developers don't get shit right the first time, especially not when you are dealing with hundreds of thousands of line of code, even the expert coder, you can have the best attention to detail, there WILL be fuck-ups you discover as bugs, you fix those motherfuckers of bugs, only to create new regressions, you fix those it works for a while, you then add shit because you are on continuous development, and yet you will break something, that's where good QA comes in handy and having regression tests, as far as sloppy coding and being really bad, that also exists - but one of the bad aspects of an open sourced project is just that, being open, a develop has no contractual obligation or incentive to stay, so basically a developer can start shit, then just fuck off and leave something they did not finish, which is broken and left broken, and when you have a lot of that in your code from different devs and at the time there was not proper QA and regression testing, who picks up the shite in the end and all the pieces ? Existing devs, including you who is doing maintenance work and clean-up work, so it's no surprising that most of the time is spent on maintenance - a lot of companies have absolutely horrible QA.
I had a strong base in coding, logic, etc, just not much in C++, yet ENIGMA has caused me to want to learn more and get interested in that aspect. I was not too fond of the new system of installing ENIGMA, but now I think it is the best method, which I even prefer to pre-made scripts and old method, yes it takes a lot of space, but storage is cheap (outside SSD
) and I think people should take the time to learn this process and get their hands a little dirty, there are many advantages to the current system of installing ENIGMA- just a git pull away from updating instead of having to re-install the whole shit, there is big value to that.
I'm convinced Josh did this. We've all told fundies many times what he's doing bothers us, and he seems to be the obstinate type that you just can't give any constructive criticism to. We haven't even banned him, he can still join and post to that channel. Rather than take people's feedback and change his behavior, he'd rather scream about it and stomp his feet!
You haven't banned him ? I thought he was banned from the specific discord channel no ? and was given his own channel?
I guess in a way if this is true the doors were still open, he still had/has the option to contribute silently, it's hard to stay silent when there is so much sexual tension though
This is actually about a skilled and talented coder, who's also respected among GameMaker users, sending pull requests to ENIGMA only for fundies to annoy that person off. Josh made it VERY CLEAR in his post that fundies is costing more than he's worth because he's scaring off more people than he has talent to make up for.
So I guess everything solution was exhausted right ? By any chance, are the people he is allegedly turning away talent to be contributors or just users ? When I joined ENIGMA as a new user, it was CHAOS on the forum, flaming, insulting, vulgar, derogative, it was an all out flame war on the forum, I and others stuck around I guess, sometimes it's best to stay away from specific topics and not join the conversation, learned the hard lesson - sometimes when you join specific topics the flames get higher and higiher.
Silence is gold in some cases, though not always, but some
I guess decisions like these can be a community decision, if he was found to annoy a majority and a majority want him gone, then there is nothing much else to be done and it is unfortunate. Long life and continuation to ENIGMA hopefully.
But I guess from reading it seems it was determined by some that majority made the decision
