egofree
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Reply #15 Posted on: November 01, 2014, 04:54:36 am |
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 601
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Look what happened to MultimediaBuilder, a product that had amazing potential...
Several years ago, i bought the cobra bytes game engine : http://cobrabytes.squeakyduck.co.uk/. It seemed interesting. But it was created by one guy and it was closed source. Now it's dead. If it was open-source, at least there would be the possibility that someone start again the project.
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Darkstar2
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Reply #16 Posted on: November 01, 2014, 11:50:34 am |
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1238
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Look what happened to MultimediaBuilder, a product that had amazing potential...
Several years ago, i bought the cobra bytes game engine : http://cobrabytes.squeakyduck.co.uk/. It seemed interesting. But it was created by one guy and it was closed source. Now it's dead. If it was open-source, at least there would be the possibility that someone start again the project.
yeah but whilst OpenSource has its perks, it's not always roses. A one man person could make a closed source but done PROPERLY and fully functional and useable. then there are options of turning a closed source into an open source should agent Lonewolff decide to although I doubt it would happen... I'd assume that by the time he abandons his new engine, it would have been fully functional and polished enough.......OpenSource is open to contribution but can trail for years and years and lose interest from the community, it's also open for rubbish and people contributing to it, messing it up and leaving....leaving a bloody mess and a smaller team to pick up the pieces......Sound familiar ? lol! So yeah this is open to debate! ENIGMA is a FREE alternative, but does it mean YYG went belly up ? Nope, they still are hiring people, they are expanding and their knobs are growing.... FREE can be attractive, but people work hard for their work and don't like the idea that everything they create is open source / open orifice, meaning open to theft and people stealing and claiming their own....Too easy with open source because most people involved in such projects have rights but would seldom go as far as taking the expensive legal route due to time and energy... So one thing for sure, YYG and GMS is not going to die because of ENIGMA and ENIGMA has never been a threat to GMS' future, it might even help it lol! However can we say the other way around is true ? NOPE.... and that is a big question mark awaiting YYG's next best thing they pop from the oven next year One thing that might push ENIGMA to really be competitive is 1) detatch a little or completely from GM compatibility 2) be unique 3) support exporting to Android, ios, etc, fully appstore/market compliant. Now with the YYC being included at no extra charge, for windows users, the gap is widening..... I guess now the deciding factor for someone - should I go for FREE and all my shite is open source along with it OR - should I stick to GMS, pay little money and shite I make stays closed source BUT at the sacrifice of an easy to decompile EXE, resources in plain view and other inconsistencies. SADLY most people don't realise the big flaws with GmS and will stick to it....... By the time agent Wolf finishes his engine (3 to 4 years tops) then maybe we can have this debate again
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Goombert
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Reply #17 Posted on: November 01, 2014, 11:59:10 am |
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Location: Cappuccino, CA Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2993
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Listen Darkstar2, you make some very good points and are clearly more open minded to the subject, but you are all COMPLETELY MISSING THE POINT. I don't mean to sound shrewd, but the whole point of Open Source is you are free to chose, you have the choice to use either program, both ENIGMA and Studio are empowering you as a consumer more than just having one. Our software is compatible with theirs, and you can use them together, you need to work on a project from Linux? Great use LGM and then take it back to Windows to build. The same goes for any of the other tools we've written and provide. It's an erroneous notion that YoYoGames has to lose in order for ENIGMA and the consumer to win. I would like to additionally point out that this will require you have Visual Studio and Microsoft Visual C++ installed on your computer. http://help.yoyogames.com/entries/24468366
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« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 12:37:22 pm by Robert B Colton »
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I think it was Leonardo da Vinci who once said something along the lines of "If you build the robots, they will make games." or something to that effect.
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lonewolff
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Reply #20 Posted on: November 01, 2014, 05:51:37 pm |
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"Guest"
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Listen Darkstar2, you make some very good points and are clearly more open minded to the subject, but you are all COMPLETELY MISSING THE POINT. I don't mean to sound shrewd, but the whole point of Open Source is you are free to chose, you have the choice to use either program, both ENIGMA and Studio are empowering you as a consumer more than just having one. Our software is compatible with theirs, and you can use them together, you need to work on a project from Linux? Great use LGM and then take it back to Windows to build. The same goes for any of the other tools we've written and provide. It's an erroneous notion that YoYoGames has to lose in order for ENIGMA and the consumer to win.
Missing the third option though Closed Source and free. A Closed Source option can be potentially 'free-r' than the Open Source one, as the CS licence can say 'do what ever you want with your compiled application - it is yours'
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Goombert
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Reply #21 Posted on: November 01, 2014, 06:08:27 pm |
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Location: Cappuccino, CA Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2993
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So can the open source license with a custom exception so I fail to see your point.
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I think it was Leonardo da Vinci who once said something along the lines of "If you build the robots, they will make games." or something to that effect.
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Darkstar2
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Reply #22 Posted on: November 01, 2014, 07:26:54 pm |
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1238
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So can the open source license with a custom exception so I fail to see your point.
No he has a bloody good point, if it were that easy and obvious then ENIGMA would have had a custom exception that long ago, now it is running after attorneys and legal help and being rejected and ignored left and right, where IS that custom licence ? The only thing lonewolff, is your product going to use open source ? how are you going to handle certain functionality ? Does using open source stuff in your closed source engine force the end-user to mention what open source was used ? Note that GMS uses lot of open source software, and it is required to include the licence of each component, long and fucking boring that nobody reads... So lonewolff, then your closed source would be a FREEWARE. Quite an amazing initiative for such a product by the looks of the screenshot. So you don't plan on earning anything for your hard work ? I think you should sell it for some minimum, have a free version + a pro version, etc. you could sell it cheap but at least earn something from your efforts Or since you are rich guy already you probably could give it away free it will be ok still we won't deny it
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lonewolff
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Reply #24 Posted on: November 01, 2014, 08:00:06 pm |
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"Guest"
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So can the open source license with a custom exception so I fail to see your point.
No he has a bloody good point, if it were that easy and obvious then ENIGMA would have had a custom exception that long ago, now it is running after attorneys and legal help and being rejected and ignored left and right, where IS that custom licence ?
The only thing lonewolff, is your product going to use open source ? how are you going to handle certain functionality ? Does using open source stuff in your closed source engine force the end-user to mention what open source was used ?
Note that GMS uses lot of open source software, and it is required to include the licence of each component, long and fucking boring that nobody reads...
So lonewolff, then your closed source would be a FREEWARE. Quite an amazing initiative for such a product by the looks of the screenshot. So you don't plan on earning anything for your hard work ? I think you should sell it for some minimum, have a free version + a pro version, etc. you could sell it cheap but at least earn something from your efforts Or since you are rich guy already you probably could give it away free it will be ok still we won't deny it
The only Open Source component is Ogre 3D, which is now under the MIT licence (pretty much do what you like with it licence). So, all I need to do as add thier licence text in my readme which is 'fucking boring and nobody reads' - LOL.
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Goombert
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Reply #25 Posted on: November 01, 2014, 08:17:10 pm |
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Location: Cappuccino, CA Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2993
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No he has a bloody good point, if it were that easy and obvious then ENIGMA would have had a custom exception that long ago, now it is running after attorneys and legal help and being rejected and ignored left and right, where IS that custom licence ? It is that easy, what is the point of changing ENIGMA's license when it's not finished? The more time we spend arguing over the license we will eventually end up with a wonderful license and nothing to actually license. Until someone makes an actual game and is ready to make it commercial with ENIGMA the subject is basically moot to me, we can cross that bridge when we come to it. A more proprietary license will not automatically bring more developers, users, and automagically make us all rich. I really just want to know why anyone needs or wants the license changed immediately and why it is such a pressing issue, nobody has made an argument for this accept that fact that it may be hard to contact contributors in the future. Besides this I haven't heard one person specifically state a logical reason why they personally want a different license. Additionally he only stated an open or permissive license generally, though he may have implied ENIGMA's license, he never said anything about ENIGMA. I will nonetheless give you a perfect example of an amazing game engine that has a permissive license and makes use of other open source software, and that is Irrlicht which is ZLIB and was started and developed by mainly 1 dude, Nikolaus Gebhardt. http://irrlicht.sourceforge.net/The Irrlicht Engine is an open source high performance realtime 3D engine written in C++. It is completely cross-platform, using D3D, OpenGL and its own software renderers, and has all of the state-of-the-art features which can be found in commercial 3d engines. We've got a huge active community, and there are lots of projects in development that use the engine. You can find enhancements for Irrlicht all over the web, like alternative terrain renderers, portal renderers, exporters, world layers, tutorials, editors, language bindings for java, perl, ruby, basic, python, lua, and so on. And best of all: It's completely free. Really? Take a look at the current state of ENIGMA. This whole licensing issue seems to be a conspiracy about making ENIGMA look bad.
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« Last Edit: November 01, 2014, 08:24:45 pm by Robert B Colton »
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I think it was Leonardo da Vinci who once said something along the lines of "If you build the robots, they will make games." or something to that effect.
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lonewolff
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Reply #26 Posted on: November 01, 2014, 09:15:29 pm |
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"Guest"
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This whole licensing issue seems to be a conspiracy about making ENIGMA look bad.
Seems to be a conspiracy led by the ENIGMA team themselves though. I had never questioned the licence until Josh started posting these licence threads roughly a year ago. It was only then that I realized that ENIGMA owns my crap LOL
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Darkstar2
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Reply #27 Posted on: November 01, 2014, 10:15:59 pm |
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1238
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This whole licensing issue seems to be a conspiracy about making ENIGMA look bad.
Seems to be a conspiracy led by the ENIGMA team themselves though.
I had never questioned the licence until Josh started posting these licence threads roughly a year ago. It was only then that I realized that ENIGMA owns my crap LOL
So does YoYoGames agent Lonewolff Be it marketplace or releasing / distributing with their assistance, they own your soul and your all your souls of future life times, of course as independent distributor that's another story. But yeah with ENIGMA it's true they own you (p0wnZ to be more precise!) So it's nothing to mess around with Though there are ways to kinda minimise the effects. Like keeping all your data and resources EXTERNAL and encrypted and using an external handler to decypher and prepare resources fetching it back to your source....so all you would need to provide is source of your game, the resource handler and its assets are yours! if I were to code a C++ resource handler and call it from ENIGMA to fetch external resources, would ENIGMA also require the source to my C++ external file ? fuck no, I don't think so since it is NOT part of the ENIGMA engine and is totally independent. But most people don't think out of the box and will include all their assets inside the EXE and everything in plain view in their code...... There are many ways to use ENIGMA where these would be non issues. Besides the Josh/Robert probably too busy to even take a piss (literally ) to even care about mocking about your code or your elements, so I wouldn't worry, the licence might bot be the only thing that held ENIGMA back...it's more of the lack of contributors and time of existing ones. I don't think anybody is in a rush to make a multi million $ game in ENIGMA as of yet.
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edsquare
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Reply #29 Posted on: November 02, 2014, 03:53:05 pm |
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Location: The throne of ringworld Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 402
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This whole licensing issue seems to be a conspiracy about making ENIGMA look bad.
I also think the same and even said so once before. (Enfasis on the word SEEMS)
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A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five. Groucho Marx
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