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856
Issues Help Desk / Re: ENIGMA crashing very frequently !
« on: May 21, 2014, 10:48:47 pm »No I've already talked with Dailly, they are going to be changing a lot, drag and drop will be overhauled, I'm certain it will be pretty unfamiliar from the traditional GM IDE.
Oh they have set the motion for some major complaints I'm sure .....
Didn't know you were in talking terms with the YYG dev, thought they hated the enigma devs. or anybody involved in the project
857
Off-Topic / Re: Let's discuss videogames
« on: May 21, 2014, 09:46:18 pm »
Gaming isn't the only reason to purchase expensive computer upgrades, you know.
Gee thanks for reminding me. I'm not a n00b next to hardware and software, just for programming (certain languages). I have spent thousands of $ over the years in computer upgrades, hardware and upgrades because mostly for the work I did, multimedia, rendering, film, etc that required heavy processing back in the days where these tools required heavy CPU processing and did not have the same level of GPU optimisations. Then came a time where I spent more on GPU upgrades particularly to be able to enjoy the latest games. In the case of less games or dying PC industry as some claim, which I don't necessarily agree with, I might hold back on upgrades.
As far as your last comment, I don't know exactly who you are aiming with this, but I have not gone "oh older games are better just because they are" I usually back up my arguments in length if you bothered to read my posts. Not a one liner person.
There is good and bad on both sides.
Some older games sucked major balls too, true.....but that was not the point I was making in terms of modern games vs. older games and TheEx made some very good points.
But this is a to each their own. Some people still like older games and cannot stand any new game, whilst there are people who are into retro games and crave also the blocky look style, and others prefer modern next generation material.
Some people judge a game strictly by its eye candy, others don't care about graphics at all but more about story, some like a balance, some like certain styles of games others don't..... Some people like FPS, some can't stand them. I've never said that old games did not have any flaws or were ALL good.
858
Issues Help Desk / Re: ENIGMA crashing very frequently !
« on: May 21, 2014, 09:21:36 pm »
It's funny because I've been saying much the same, couldn't agree more. As far as the IDE, don't forget that they always maintained the IDE that Mark created, and I don't think we should expect anything different to people have gotten used to. So might not be anything significant in terms of looks but in terms of stability ? performance ? I would hope that it is at least somewhat better to some extent.
I suspect that they will probably announce this in the summer to early fall.
I suspect that they will probably announce this in the summer to early fall.
859
Issues Help Desk / Re: ENIGMA crashing very frequently !
« on: May 21, 2014, 07:42:23 pm »This is actually where I am kind of stumped with texture atlasing, I don't know if Studio places any limit on the number of textures per page or not.
I don't know if things changed but I recall they do, because of their mobile exports.
For windows you can tweak texture page settings. I remember long ago when I tried importing high res textures in GMS they looked so damn blurry/blocky, a simply bumping up texture settings in the configs, made them nice and crisp. I'm pretty sure they do have limits.
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You should probably do that anyway, having external resources makes your game modifiable by the end user, and that is a
Not really what I am after. The external resources engine I would build would allow me to keep the core compact, fast, efficient. Would probably open the doors to adding support for DLC, level editors, etc, but that is really not a priority right now. My main priority is starting to work on my engine which would be in 2 parts. The resource file builder which would parse a text file and encrypt / link all the files together and build an index, and the reader engine which would pass a request through a function and extract individual resources.
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always be loaded all at once, but GMX will be optimized and not lag as much, and so will EGM. Potentially, but none of us have the time to overhaul the system this much.
Do you have high hopes for GameMaker's new IDE ? It will be C# based right ? Do you think it will offer much improvements ? Some say it will suck just as much dick, some say it will be better/faster. Wasn't this alleged new IDE due in christmas 2013 or Q1-2014 ?
860
Off-Topic / Re: Let's discuss videogames
« on: May 21, 2014, 07:23:57 pm »I agree with everything Harri said above, video games do cater to the lowest denominator, and it's bullshit, this is part of why PC gaming is dying. Dumbing down SimCity with SimCity: Societies and SimCity 2013 and sandboxing shit, is exactly how they pissed off their fan base and ruined the franchise.
You don't see many new strategy games anymore these days either. It's all bullshit, the PC gaming platform is in decline. iOS/iPhone/Mobile/Android have not only changed the landscape of the video game industry, they are fucking destroying it with their crappy bird games.
I agree about the crappy mobile games,
but I disagree about the PC gaming industry on decline. I'd hate to think of a reason why I should stop spending thousands of $ on system upgrades lol !
Anyhow I don't think it's really mobile market ruining the PC gaming industry but the consoles......nothing worse than a shitty, half baked console port.
But don't worry Robert, now all those GMS homemade birdgames on iOS/Android, etc, will find their way on consoles with GMS's new console ports. so you will be able to enjoy those flappy bird style games on your PS4, XBOX360, XBOX720 in the very near future.
861
Off-Topic / Re: Let's discuss videogames
« on: May 21, 2014, 07:20:08 pm »Problem with multiplayer is that it is hard to get right as well.
So true, but then again there is the psychological factor of people playing against other live human beings and feeling right up there and powerful as they go on a frag frenzy
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You think that now, but in the 90s people loved that. They didn't get frustrated, they got pumped. The harder it is to achieve something, the bigger the achievement.
Well times have changed mate !
I have to be quite honest if today I played a game and at 95% through I died and had to start all over, all because of 1 mistake I did 5 minutes into the game I'd be fucking irate about it, and I would not have kind words to say lol, and the cardboard box and DVD would end up in the recycling bin, smashed to smithereens ! 
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People would play 3h straight in one level and when they finally beaten it, then would call everyone they know and brag about it.
Indeed. So I will keep this in mind for my next few games I make, I'll make one just for you, no waypoints, no saves, etc. There again this discussion gives me good ideas, I'd make things optional and configurable.
But I guess this goes to show the different extremes in tastes. Some people have all the time to spend playing games, some don't.....
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Or when a kid finally beaten a game he would run happily in the room and joyfully tell his mother that he beaten it.
Yeah ! People were so much happy to brag they finished a game and be happy as if they discovered gold. Now you have social media and smart phones where people report what they are doing, when they are farting or taking a dump !
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I am 23 and I want a game that is so hard to beat that when I actually did it, I would call my freaking mother and tell her that.
REALLY ? Ok, I'll make a platform / puzzle type game dedicated just for players who want that sort of thing....
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I wouldn't call Half-life1 realistic. Eating a freaking slice of pizza or drinking soda to heal gunshot wounds is hardly realistic.
lol. That's exactly my point ! It's not a simulation. It's sci-fi based off an arcade model. Same for call of duty, BF4 and the rest of these types of games, they are by all means not simulations they are arcade.
If these games were based off realistic models, people would probably not play them but only a single digit percentage who like them.
That's like FPS games where you go on a shooting frenzy because you know there is ammo practically all over the map that spawns back.... In a real simulation you would have very limited ammo and really have to think your shots / not waste them. In an arcade model you would just empty your guns and shoot at anything moving no worries as you can pick up ammo so conveniently placed and in plain view you can't miss
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True, monkey island was also awesome.
Though I was a bit disappointed of the ending in one of them think it was 4. Some games I liked to play but towards the end noticed they seem rushed and ending was disappointing.
Speaking of adventure games, ones I really enjoyed playing, Syberia 1, Syberia 2, (there is a 3rd one in the making).
Don't forget Under A Killing Moon, Temujin, Phantasmagoria, Pandora, 7th guest, 11th guest, etc.etc.etc.
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I am born in 1990. I had my first PC when I was 4 years old. I was playing Diablo, Doom, Quake, C&C, quests and other games when I was less than 8 years old. Clearly it wasn't that frustrating for me. It's just that the younger players are so degraded that they want to get an achievement by picking up the first weapon.
Quake yeah I remember my PC was not up to par and lagged like shit on 640x480, I had to play Quake on 320x200 lol! How times change.......320x240x256 colours, and now game playat 1920x1080 !
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It DID suit a lot of people. Nobody complained that Mario or Pacman was hard.
Are you kidding me ? Mario is easy ! also wen you died you didn't start the game all over, except if you lost all lives. However in Mario there was a secret area with pipes where you could warp to selected levels.
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Then it usually was. You couldn't pack many different graphics, sounds or story in a game. That meant you had to use the 10 levels provided and that's it.
Nothing prevented a dev from using lots of graphics, sounds, resources, etc. Under a killing moon came on 4 CDs packed Monkey Island was multi CD, some other games were multi CD.
Don't forget the Commodore 64, many of the bigger titles came on multi disks.
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I also remembered what I hate is "Achievements". Don't get me wrong, I love getting them and I love doing something special to get them.
Ok so what you hate is actually the type of achievements. Yes how ridiculous some achievements are. picking weapons ? lol really
Might as well make "walking" an achievement, 
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But I that they are given by just playing the game normally. Picking up a weapon shouldn't be an achievement, killing a boss shouldn't be an achievement, finishing the game shouldn't be an achievement.
Mind you finishing the game could be one, for example, finishing the game in high difficulty mode.
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Killing the boss with a knife having less than 20hp should be an achievement.
yeah and some really sore hands
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Finishing the game without dying (i.e. no save points) should be an achievement. The definition of achievement is this: "Something accomplished successfully, especially by means of exertion, skill, practice, or perseverance.". And getting 75% of achievements in today's games don't require any "exertion, skill, practice, or perseverance".
Good point, so I guess there is the "psychological" factor. Making the player feel powerful, successful, etc.
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But this "I am special for doing jack shit" feeling kids these days want to get also exemplified in the Mass Effect 3 ending kerfuffle.
There you go, you have it nailed.
"ZZzzzzzzOMG ZOMG I just got an achivement for picking a weapon lemme go facebook my 500 friends and tweet my 5000 followers ......" Like I said times changed
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impact. Bioshock:Infinite made the whole plot around that. The fact that vast majority of choices doesn't matter - "Constant and variables". And even then people complained how Infinite had only one ending - missing the whole point entirely.
BTW speaking of game endings, I own the MYST collection. They now are gathering dust in their cardboard boxes, so I haven't played them again in ages (no pun intended.) Anyways, in one of the MYST I recall multiple endings, and in one of the endings you were doomed to an island, I always wondered if there was a secret escape on that island or if you were just stuck wandering there.... I remember wandering hours on using objects and figuring out if there was a secret or something I needed to do..........
862
Off-Topic / Re: Let's discuss videogames
« on: May 21, 2014, 05:04:20 pm »I personally also think that modern games are too casual. With casual I mean that they target the lowest denominator. And in most cases those are 12 year olds. So they end up VERY easy (in a modern game playing on Normal/Hard I rarely fail more than once in the whole game). I remember playing everything from Doom and Quake to Starcraft and Diablo for weeks until I actually finished them. Today I finish single-player games in max 2 play sessions (so basically two days). The only games I play longer are RPG's like Skyrim or Fallout which sometimes turn into hundreds of hours (because I want to do EVERYTHING). But they are also very easy and when you play for about 16 hours you are basically
Wow that is probably the longest post I read from someone other than myself lol, congrats mate, but you ain't beating no record
Anyhow, yes I can see his point in a way he is right, there were also utterly shitty games back then too. Point I was making is that many games now seem to focus more on graphics/eye candy than playability/replayability, story, etc. Some games seem rushed too and extremely buggy. Quote
There are also very few reasons to ever replay a game these days. While there was little reason to do so in the 90s as well, I still found myself playing a lot of the same
Also you see some games that start well and end in disasters. One good example of shitty gaming is the original Duke Nukem 3D series in DOS.....First time you play it first level it's amazing, but as you progress through you notice the shitty level design. One thing that stands out is adventure games. There were some pretty good adventure games made back in the days, those you could play through for 50-70 hours through.... Right now it seems to be 3D FPS craze, 5 hour gameplay lol.
Duke Nukem Forever took what decades to make, I was so fucking bloody disappointed what a waste of the cardboard it comes wrapped in and plastic it's burned on not to mention over price shite. Modern graphics is not enough in a game, there has to be balance.....
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I plan to replay DeusEx:HE though.
That part was obvious !
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Dev's often boast about "replayability" and yet there is basically no reason to do so. More stuff != replayability. Look at original
If the game has a good story, proper level design, that can pave the way to replaying it. However, if a game is linear all the way, might not be a reason for some to replay it. Good story, good gameplay, multiple paths, multiple endings, some random elements, at least some non linear elements, might contribute to replaying it. Perhaps what most devs now are targeting is not the single player market, but the multi player market craze
As once you finish the easy peasy single player campaign most of the time there is no reason to go back to it, you tackle the multi player and start pwning or getting pwned if you suck or if you are playing with cheaters Quote
expansion. On the other hand FTL:Faster Than Light - which has relatively few things in it, can make you play it 100 times over. Mostly because when you die you die. No checkpoints, no saves.
Wow I would hate that, I guess there is a market for every kind. It would be more frustrating than ever if you died in a game you have progressed so far only to start from the beginning. I don't think most people would like that and would end up eventually either putting holes through walls or going crazy or both
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What I hate most about today's games though is regenerative healing. That thing took every challenge out of games. Stepped on a mine in Half-Life1 and don't have enough health left for a boss? Better reload. Stepped on a mine in Battlefield4? Stay put for 5 seconds and you will be alright.
I don't think you realise that these games are not simulations but arcade style. Why ? because that's what people want. If it was based off a simulation model, majority of people would end up dying most of the time and crying that the game is too difficult !
If anything those games should offer an arcade mode and simulation mode, some do, most don't. It's pathetic indeed. In some FPS where you receive grenades and don't die or you have to get shot 500 times to really die !
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I also remember point-and-click games (we called them "quest games") like Spacequest, Kindquest, Leisure Suite Larry etc.
I used to love those, and I plan on making P&C in ENIGMA, just looking for some people willing to draw the art, help ,etc.
Leisure Suit Larry lol ! Who can forget that one......Don,t forget monkey island, and the other classics.
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totally useless as an item. Which meant that if you picked that item up in the first 5 minutes of the game, then you have to restart after playing hours.
I'd be cussing every known possible combination if that happened to me and used the disc as a Frisbee
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And I liked that in games - you could shoot yourself in the foot in the first 5 minutes and never know about it until hours later. It
You have patience of steel - you sure you are human ?
Maybe there was a market for that, but now, I would think people would be frustrated, especially now that people are playing games much younger.....God forbid if you ever have kids and let them play these type of games ! LOL. I can grantee that this type of game model would not suit many people !
Here let me illustrate my point:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOzF5ec6B_k
lol!
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I think there are three main reasons why games in the 80s and 90s were hard:
1) Games couldn't be long or complex back then because of hardware reasons. So they made them tough.
The length of a game might not be always related to hardware. Remember that the big ridiculous size in today's games is due to the mega texture resolutions used. Some new games require multi gigabytes, and you start seeing more 15gb, 20gb, even 40gb.
Right now you end up with huge fucking games that require multi gigabyte installs and can be finished in hours on hard. There is more focus on graphics than anything else.
863
Issues Help Desk / Re: ENIGMA crashing very frequently !
« on: May 21, 2014, 12:43:09 pm »
But as Robert pointed out. It's not VRAM, but what texture sizes it supports. You could have 2GB, but that doesn't mean 1 texture can be 2GB. One texture is usually up 4092x4092 these days. Usually higher on newer PC's. I just googled and it seems my 660Ti can have up to 16384x16384 in DX11 (probably the same in GL). That is actually 1GB of 32bit texture, so with my 2GB of VRAM I can have two of these textures in memory.
I use AIDA64, and it also says 16384x16384.
(but there is 1D,2D,3D, etc.) numbers can vary 65535, 2048, 16384, etc. You will find all the info on just about everything hardware using that tool.
864
Issues Help Desk / Re: ENIGMA crashing very frequently !
« on: May 21, 2014, 12:41:22 pm »Yes if you overflow VRAM new resources will be pooled in system RAM. At any rate, that isn't what I was talking about, regardless of how much RAM you have, most graphics cards limit the size of textures, some really old shitty cards may be 1024x1024, average is 2048x2048, and I think mine is 5096x5096, and if you have a card like Harri or Josh or Cheeseboy it would be even higher.
https://www.google.com/#q=texture+size+limit
I use AIDA64, great hardware info tool, it lists so many thing about hardware, there is 1D, 2D, 3D, all kinds of numbers. Mine is 16384x16384 and in other places it says 65535x65535.
I guess the only workaround for using such large games in ENIGMA is an advanced developer by using external resources and keeping the LGM IDE compact, only using the resources as needed. This is what nearly all commercial games do. Currently GMS deprecated certain functions to allow this, luckily in ENIGMA they still exist, all that remains is for me to write my single file encrypted resources I can extract files from direct to memory or to disk.
Quote from: Some guy on gamedev.net
If you want to support tablets, you should go no higher than 2048^2, which is what Tegra 3 supports (iPad3/Tegra 4 supports 4096^2). If iPad, Nexus, or Galaxy Tab are possible candidates, don't go over 2048^2.http://www.gamedev.net/topic/646362-expected-maximum-texture-size/
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Yeah, mobile support is the last thing on my mind right now
That's why I am using ENIGMA now, it has some of the advanced functionality I am looking for, that is not present in GMS.Quote
But also yes, the IDE lags, but so does Studio's IDE with big projects. I've compared opening big games such as TKG's in Studio and it runs just about as badly as LGM, the editors just don't lag nearly as much, it's written in Delphi.NET currently.
Soon, in C#.
They could have prevented the lag with optimization and allowed dynamic resource allocation as needed instead of preloading everything to the IDE. Why the HELL would one need to preload anything after all you are testing your game back and forth. Should be optional, preload and after a certain limit go dynamic handling. But of course that requires more coding ! so I guess that part is left up to the developer.
No biggie, I think I am capable of doing so.
865
Issues Help Desk / Re: draw_sprite doesn't take in account the visible property
« on: May 21, 2014, 02:48:08 am »
Noticed you added game_end event.
I will test this tomorrow as well
I will test this tomorrow as well
866
Issues Help Desk / Re: ENIGMA crashing very frequently !
« on: May 21, 2014, 02:47:04 am »No large sprites are fine currently, they will lag the IDE, but they are usable as long as they are smaller than or equal to what your video card supports. It's just something wrong with the fucking plugin font population that is causing it to shit out. Large games are less likely to run perfectly out of the box however because as the size of the game increases, the number of chances of it using something ENIGMA has not finished or is buggy increases as well.
I have 2GB video memory, but if using more than video RAM isn't regular RAM used to compensate ?
Regarding the lagging of IDE, I had talked about a project I had long ago I might work on it soon, external resources, and regarding fonts if this does not get fixed I think I have an idea around it, crazy idea actually
Think I am actually going to learn more from this than actual game development lol!
867
Issues Help Desk / Re: ENIGMA crashing very frequently !
« on: May 21, 2014, 02:22:49 am »
So in theory this could mean ENIGMA cannot be used to make very complex games with large sprites, backgrounds, animations, etc. Wonder if this can be reproduced by importing very large graphics files. it's too late for me to test this now, will test this tomorrow.
I had this issue with gayblunderStudio (crashing it when importing really large sprites, backgrounds, etc.).
I had this issue with gayblunderStudio (crashing it when importing really large sprites, backgrounds, etc.).
868
Issues Help Desk / ENIGMA crashing very frequently !
« on: May 20, 2014, 11:43:03 pm »
Ok I had made other topics before about this and thought the problem was resolved but it came back.
I was recommended to tweak settings.ini and use -xms 1000m which is the maximum. I thought this had helped as it crashed less frequently - however I spoke to soon
I found a way to reproduce a crash, here is the gay error message I get:
Now you must be wondering how the bloody fuck did I manage to do this, I must have been working on a really big project ....
No ! Here is how I did it, I don't know if it is relevant to the settings I used and have not tested with other fonts/gfx system yet.
New project, ogl1
no sprites
1 font resource arial, size 99 (which is the maximum allowed through LGM).
(font0)
1 object with code in draw event
draw_set_font(font0);
draw_text(0, 0, "Hello, world!");
draw_text(1.5,20.5, "Hello, world!");
1 room, 1 instance of this object.
That's it, nothing else.
Also tried build all / clean, same thing.
The crashing even occurs on font size 70,
worked on 50.
Tried this in GMS, not a problem, it handled it fine....of course in gaymaker studio the fonts even that big was ugly as fuck, 2nd one was blurry.
I hope this information can be useful.
The past days I have had ENIGMA crash on me with retarded errors of this sort at least 200 times.
I was recommended to tweak settings.ini and use -xms 1000m which is the maximum. I thought this had helped as it crashed less frequently - however I spoke to soon
I found a way to reproduce a crash, here is the gay error message I get:
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java.lang.Error: Invalid memory access
at com.sun.jna.Native.invokeInt(Native Method)
at com.sun.jna.Function.invoke(Function.java:383)
at com.sun.jna.Function.invoke(Function.java:315)
at com.sun.jna.Library$Handler.invoke(Library.java:212)
at com.sun.proxy.$Proxy0.compileEGMf(Unknown Source)
at org.enigma.EnigmaRunner$CompilerThread.run(EnigmaRunner.java:679)
Now you must be wondering how the bloody fuck did I manage to do this, I must have been working on a really big project ....
No ! Here is how I did it, I don't know if it is relevant to the settings I used and have not tested with other fonts/gfx system yet.
New project, ogl1
no sprites
1 font resource arial, size 99 (which is the maximum allowed through LGM).
(font0)
1 object with code in draw event
draw_set_font(font0);
draw_text(0, 0, "Hello, world!");
draw_text(1.5,20.5, "Hello, world!");
1 room, 1 instance of this object.
That's it, nothing else.
Also tried build all / clean, same thing.
The crashing even occurs on font size 70,
worked on 50.
Tried this in GMS, not a problem, it handled it fine....of course in gaymaker studio the fonts even that big was ugly as fuck, 2nd one was blurry.
I hope this information can be useful.
The past days I have had ENIGMA crash on me with retarded errors of this sort at least 200 times.
869
Developing ENIGMA / Re: Font Fractional Metrics
« on: May 20, 2014, 11:33:19 pm »
Ok there are 2 things, 1 is good 1 is shitty
I'll start with the good
1) Tested with your hello world code, yep looks good I didn't see any blurring. There is going to some bias however, if your screen resolution is smaller than game room resolution, the blurring you will see is the effect of the upscaling - this is the side effect of LCD monitors. in window mode no blur. To test full screen I had to set my monitor to its native resolution (1920x1080) no blurring.
2) is off topic, but whilst testing this I accidentally found a way to reproduce crashing ENIGMA and I was shocked how easy it was.
I'll start with the good
1) Tested with your hello world code, yep looks good I didn't see any blurring. There is going to some bias however, if your screen resolution is smaller than game room resolution, the blurring you will see is the effect of the upscaling - this is the side effect of LCD monitors. in window mode no blur. To test full screen I had to set my monitor to its native resolution (1920x1080) no blurring.
2) is off topic, but whilst testing this I accidentally found a way to reproduce crashing ENIGMA and I was shocked how easy it was.
870
Developing ENIGMA / Re: Font Fractional Metrics
« on: May 20, 2014, 03:47:50 pm »
Ohh right, I guess I didn't see much changes perhaps tiredness or optical illusion but when looking at the image above sideway I see the more obvious difference.
Strange because when I tested in GMS yesterday, I found unassigned fonts were far more blurrier, regardless of their position.
and when I used assigned fonts they were crisp.
Well it's good to know we don't have this issue in ENIGMA. Nice find. Thanks for the fix.
Goes to show you that you will never get flawless, there's probably always will be issues in ENIGMA that are not present in GMS and issues in GMS that are not present in ENIGMA.
I think pixel offset / spacing issues with fonts is far more forgiving than blurriness of fonts.
BTW, as I recall GM always used DX9, right ? Does GMS still use DX9 ?
The changes you made, I'm assuming is not just for text rendering but anything rendered on screen right ? and these flaws are more visible with text..... Will these changes impact on anything else such as particles ? sprites ?
As far as sprites having the same problem I guess I did not notice that in GMS. The thing is most people probably won't notice these flaws especially when they are moving on screen as opposed to being still.
Strange because when I tested in GMS yesterday, I found unassigned fonts were far more blurrier, regardless of their position.
and when I used assigned fonts they were crisp.
Well it's good to know we don't have this issue in ENIGMA. Nice find. Thanks for the fix.
Goes to show you that you will never get flawless, there's probably always will be issues in ENIGMA that are not present in GMS and issues in GMS that are not present in ENIGMA.
I think pixel offset / spacing issues with fonts is far more forgiving than blurriness of fonts.
BTW, as I recall GM always used DX9, right ? Does GMS still use DX9 ?
The changes you made, I'm assuming is not just for text rendering but anything rendered on screen right ? and these flaws are more visible with text..... Will these changes impact on anything else such as particles ? sprites ?
As far as sprites having the same problem I guess I did not notice that in GMS. The thing is most people probably won't notice these flaws especially when they are moving on screen as opposed to being still.