ENIGMA Development Environment

I have no idea, it should have never been limited.

Edit: I would test this, but I just updated to the new release and it appears the modify collision shape button has now broken.

Or maybe they just intend to remove it and ask people to figure the points on their own ! lol!
mind you that's how it is done now in LGM

Oh yeah Russel, let me quote you on something you said quite recently

GM has crappy games because it's easy to use... and harder than necessary to make good games with. This is the limitation that matters. There are new tools (and alternate conceptions of existing ones) that other game engines have or could have that GM does not, that make it easier to focus on the game design and polish and spend less time on bookwork. GM is actually relatively low-level as far as describing game behavior goes.

LOL!   So I'm assuming your alleged employment with YYG started after April 4th.  (obvious sarcasm!)

BTW do you even have GMS installed on your system ? do you even use it ?  So it must be so amazing that you went ahead and started DejaVu right ? 

Regardless of literally everything you just said, this community has a problem. You are part of it. No excuses.

Right, ok. and because certain aspects of GMS suck I'm also part of that too. So what's your view of a community, who the fuck made you forum police ?
Are you an admin ? moderator ? Show me the motherfucking rules, terms of service, whatever.....are you to decide what gets discussed here or what not ? You've made some negative rants about GM too and some quite recently, and funny but even though you are being an ass, I agreed

Or are you trying to make this forum into another GMC?   On forums people discuss good or bad, positive and negative.   If I am part of a "problem" then where do you fit in? Are you trying to make things better, other than policing the community with your rubbish ?  Again, don't you see the irony, you got a forum badge, and to be honest fits you perfectly so with a "troll" badge you go around spewing rubbish and deciding what's good and what not for this community.  You think you are making things better with your highly inflammatory, and provocative remarks ?  You think I will back down and change my mind ? I WON'T, because, remember who's the troll.......   My comments were genuine and everything I said about my discontent with said company and software was valid, and backed up already.

The moment someone makes a remark that is negative on a forum it is perceived a "problem"?

You would be best fit as an admin / moderator on the GMC.  IS that what you want this place to be ?

Let's continue with ENIGMA discussions. I don't purposely invoke GMS into discussions it just comes into context.  If we are talking about a specific feature in ENIGMA and topics lead to one thing and I mention it, "oh BTW, that is poorly done in GMS, and hate it......".that is NOT a bad thing.....It's a discussion, so long as it's backed up with arguments and facts. The same way you gave arguments as to why you thought GM made crappy games and went on ranting about it.

It's up to whoever is running this place to decide.  If it is deemed inappropriate to discuss YYG or GMS here then so be it, say the word i'll follow it.

But i'm not going to sit here and listen to some resident TROLL and his YYG shilling flame mongering.
I say what I say, brutally honest and to the point, but I mean it.
So be it.  Now that I became aware of it, I guess I should just not take anything you say to have any value , since you probably are just stirring the pot.

BTW, I joined in January 2014, but looking back to the forum Q4 2013, basically it was mostly flaming, arguing, bitching, developers who disagree with one another, people accusing one another, etc.  So what's the bigger problem for this community ? me talking against GM ( not that I'm the only one ) or the tirade amongst developers who can't agree on things and endless arguments.....which do you think is more harmful.  When I joined this community there already WAS a problem underway, and a big one. 

I'm not saying Robert didn't do that before. He was the number one guy doing it until you came along.

yeah but was he also spanked ?    I agree with all his points, he did but he also made lot of arguments to back up his rants, can't say I disagreed with any of his comments as I read them, but anyway, really, is this a trial ? LOL I mean this is bloody ridiculous, are we on trial ??!?!?!?!?!?  Like the GMC community is far from perfect, I could bring up tons of shit that happened over the years, maybe now it is more tightly moderated but it wasn't exactly perfect.

You know what I think ? I think this whole discussion is a set up to start something or get people against one another.  These things are typical on forums, person X rants about something, then you get flocks coming in from the woodwork and stirring up the pot, then they leave for a while.  Not going to work.  I guess I should fucking keep my comments to myself from now on, the YoYo police is watching !    Perhaps it would make them feel better if I started ranting against ENIGMA instead.......I could really, I'd have shiteloads to say too, but it would be rather odd for me considering what I paid for ENIGMA vs. what I paid to YYG LOL!

In the past few years people once in a while ranted about how YYG sucks. I might have contributed a post or two about that as well. But "devs" usually didn't do that. Like what do you consider a "dev" here? The only devs you probably know that are still here are me, Robert, Josh and Rusky. And me, Josh and Rusky usually don't bash YYG. At least lately (as in past 2 years).

I haven't contributed much posts on the forums over the years there but I was very active in following up on posts.  You should see some of the violent attacks YYG got over the years on their community forum and blogs at the time, by its users, from the very start when they acquired GM, to years later, every step of the way on the decisions being made, major upgrade revision not delivering that many new features, issues left unresolved for long periods, poor support who don't answer your questions or answer with something totally irrelevant; the whole skull & pirates thing ,DRM, then until recently the removing of windows function with the arrogant reply "that's the way it is, do your own", the misleading people (and this is something few will forget) YYC compiler, etc etc etc..... YYG has tolerated FAR worse over the years on their own community from members than everything said here combined.  Some of the attacks people made there on the comments section in their old blog were personal in nature and some attacked a person directly ...... So what is said here is quite tame in comparaison ! Also lot of bashing on the GMC, I read the posts, many got removed that's why their forum appears clean and people being happy. There is a HUGE bias, if they are moderating, editing and deleting posts, and here there is none of that, so it makes it seem like the GM community is mostly composed of happy people and here, mostly YYG haters. and there is your bias, but I clearly am witness to reading those posts on the GMC before they got removed !!!!  Many of those instigators of those topics were "removed" too from the forum.
That says a lot, because some of the rants and complaints were valid and were backed up and supported by many who responded.  Funny how those posts are long gone.  but some of us happen to read them and remember.

I've also witnessed them banning a helpful contributor there for no reason, without warning and without even an explanation or reason, and that is not the first time either.  So when some people come here and use the term "irrational" bashing of YYG, I tend to disagree for the reasons stipulated herein.

Most of the criticism I have read here is quite one sided or not really thought trough. Like the topic about deprecated functions or the registry functions or whatever. Again, I don't really care though. Just point out.

I've made some of the comments.  Now on the flip side, doesn't ENIGMA support those very same deprecated functions ? Must be a reason for that or the ENIGMA developers would have not found it reasonable to keep them.

If you pay attention and read my posts carefully you would see that I DID understand the reason for why YoYoGame had to remove some functions and restrict folder access and other shit, and that it was all about app store compliancy and security reasons.  HOWEVER, I did make it very clear and point out WHERE I think YYG's excuses were NON warranted and ridiculous, mainly the functions for video.  I mean look at other game making engines, they have that function and yet they support multi platform.  So they could not claim to have removed video because of the mobile ports now could they ? because that would be rubbish, as I've seen cut scenes and video on mobile apps/games, etc.  they simply did not want to work their arses in adapting it to multi export and so removed it. I also pointed out where they have gone wrong with their infrastructure inside GM.   Look at ENIGMA and how it's designed, should it ever support mobile exports, it won't have to deprecate windows commands like YYG did.  So again this all comes down to the many things said about YYG are justified and backed up with valid and reasonable arguments.

I don't think that it originally was. I can't remember clearly now (been years), but I think the original plan really was just that - "Make a free GM clone". It wasn't really about improving something. That is why we strived for compatibility above everything else. Only in about past 2 years have we diverged from that. Maybe Josh remembers better as ENIGMA was his idea.

Great then, so what started with just the idea of making a free GM clone turned out into making something that exceeds GM, in some areas and where certain things are better handled.  Not such a bad thing after all.   

That is probably because even the website was a learning experience. We had a cool guy a2h who just wanted to make as cool as site as possible and to learn something while doing that. I am pretty sure he is a web programmer now (though I don't know for sure). There was even a plan for even cooler site (http://enigma-dev.org/forums/index.php?topic=610.0 and http://enigma-dev.org/v5test/ (now trows PHP errors, just like EDC)) but that was never finished (as always here.. ). It did make ENIGMA look even more like a product though. That is why we probably didn't make it live.

That's the mistake and what gives the wrong impression of ENIGMA, that it is a finished product.  Then you have people using it and complaining of stuff not working and that gives ammo to YoYo Fans to go and write that ENIGMA is not all that to be like was done on the GMC.

YoYoGame can redeem themselves and might gain back some of the people who left or lost hope completely.  Let's see what they make of the new IDE, I'm guessing probably around summer, and the new GameMaker revision (codename Next) don't know if it's going to be called GMS 2 or what not.....they should raise the bar quite high because I remember people were quite disappointed with previous upgrades and made it very clear.  If they really listen and take criticism, they could play it to their advantage.

Now I would be curious for the non MASTER COLLECTION users like myself, who own the GMS Pro, well I have the GMS Pro + HTMl5, how many have paid the $300 for the YYC ?   They took quite a lot of heat on their forum when this happened, also some posts mysteriously are gone now (how convenient !) but I was there and read them.  Is it reasonable for a Windows only user who exports only to windows, to spend $300 for a YYC?  Their reasoning for charging $300 is because it includes exports for YYC Windows YYC Android YYC IOS.    How the HELL is that valid for a GMS Pro user who don't have these exports and only want to use windows ? Why the fuck should we cough up the price for 3 exports when we use 1 !  SO yeah, this is only ONE example of many bad decisions they made.  And I won't name any names, but some angry members who have left the community openly brag about using pirated versions of GMS and MASTER, so what they were trying to prevent was actually the opposite.  Using a pirated version was never in my plans and that's when I found ENIGMA.  Some people are developing with a pirated version and releasing shit, and that is FACT.  This is something I would never personally do.  The right thing to do was to split the YYC compiler depending on your set up.  Windows only export, you pay for YYC Windows.  Android export, you pay for windows + android and so forth.  But they are known for being lazy so it was easier to just charge one price.  I feel that $300 is a rip-off as do many. and the way they figured the $300 is by 3 exports (99/99/99, windows/android/IOS....) So quite a blow to the windows only user who would be paying the bundle price for 2 other exports they don't have !!!!

Quote

irrational anger towards another company whose software they want to model themselves after.

That is true, but the one who mostly rants about YYG is Darkstar2 and he isn't a developer here. Robert also often rants about YYG, but that happens less so and usually only because Darkstart started it.

Not quite always true.  When I joined here and went through some messages I could clearly see there were heated discussions on YYG long before I joined.  Fact Robert mentions on many occasion what was done wrong in GM, and he is right about all of it, and GayMakerStupido reference in the wiki and source code are basically his words and were not put on the main site by me either.  Yes I made my discontent public, but there was discontent long before.  Someone who calls a product GayMakerStupido or uses the term "being sold a lemon" is not exactly a happy customer, and those are not my words.  I only started using those terms because I saw someone else use them and I thought they were appropriate.
Perhaps before some people come here and try to pin everything should go through old forum posts, some dating from way back, 2013 and before, some this year, you will see that long before I joined people were having harsh words against YYG and GM and criticism, and everything I mentioned here was at least mentioned before by people here, most by enigma devs themselves....  so when enigma devs try to now pin this on me saying "oh we have nothing to do  with this we only say this because darkstar2" that is utter bullshit. I didn't start that !  I didn't refer to GMS as a piece of turd, a lemon, a *SCAM*, yes you heard me, these words were used by none other than ENIGMA devs themselves, search the forum !!!
I was not even a member there, so how the FUCK did I start anything ? 

Congratulations on the YOYO police coming here to establish that they don't suck at all and that all the criticism is just a lie ! LOL.

lol as I am sifting through the forum, I am seeing lots of posts of discontent when YOYO misled people and the whole story with the  charging $300 for a compiler
and other bits and pieces, funny because I have made those same concerns when I joined here....funny that most of what I wrote are exact things said by current and ex developers here years before I joined.

question is - Should we delete these negative posts/topics and make it look more positive? Or allow people to express their mostly irrational feelings against YYG or ENIGMA?

Irrational feelings ?  Give examples of some negative remarks against GMS that was uncalled for or irrational.   All I have done is back up my arguments in great length as opposed to 1 liner comments "this sucks" type of posts.  Every product gets remarks by its users, some positive, some negative, nobody should be in business if they can't take criticism no matter what.  What I'm beginning to see here is all of a sudden once yyg / GMS bashers trying to make themselves as saints and pinning the blame on 1 user.  I find that utterly disgusting and didn't expect that.

But most of your post had the same misconception as many people have here: This isn't a commercial product and it never will be.

Maybe that was a mistake.  As a commercial product, staffed and all could have done well.   You can't copyright a language from what I read, so it could have used GML, but also been different and aimed more at being different than compatibility.  So it's obvious this project was created not only to offer a free GM alternative, but something doing things better than GM.......and that's exactly the impression I got when I first joined and read why I should use ENIGMA instead of GMS. 

But most importantly - We make ENIGMA as a hobby and as a learning experience. Josh now works at Google probably just because he thought he could write a parser when he was 16. I learned C++ from ENIGMA and now use it for computer vision, robotics, security and so on. Everything I know about graphics (2D, 3D, GL from 1 to 3, shaders, GPU and CPU optimizations) I learned from ENIGMA. That is why many of the original developers couldn't care less if anyone actually used ENIGMA. That was never the point.

Well that is a good point you are making, because my interest in C++ has not been as high as it is now before I started using ENIGMA.   But somehow there are lots visible on the main site that give the impression to people that it is a finished product with all those features.  Many are still not working, broken, in other words maybe some of the material is outdated.  But what you mentioned just now those lines of text should be placed on the main site and emphasized as to not give the wrong impression to people joining.  Having said that, I used other clones before, and I say it again, when I saw ENIGMA I was skeptic, but was impressed, despite its many shortcomings, how good it compares to others. 

And I will continue working on ENIGMA even if I am the only one using it.

lol.

Actually make that 2.  I'm using it too and have plans of my own.  Looking into getting into C++ and soon will also look at possibility of making new extensions,
it used to be a great hobby of mine too programming, but unfortunately the languages LGM and ENIGMA are coded in is outside my skill set, otherwise I'd be contributing big time as I have major interest in this.
Maybe one day.

Problems with GMS are not the only, nor should they be the main, reason to use ENIGMA. That's just sad.

Thanks for proving my point.  There are many reasons for a person to want to come here.  Some might not agree with the direction YYG is taking GM.  Some might not agree with their handling of support and community.  Some might not agree with all the functions they removed from GMS for silly reasons.  Some might not agree to be allegedly ripped off $300 for a compiler, and the list goes on.

Why am I here? ENIGMA being FREE is not the main one. I already spent money several times on buying from YYG.

* They are inflexible and give excuses.  Removing functions that could be useful for larger games and advanced handling.  They decide on compressing your audio regardless of the format, ENIGMA handles your audio intact.  ENIGMA supports video functions.  You could make interactive MYST like games, interactive apps, games with cut scenes, etc.  Can't bloody do that in GMS because they are too damn lazy.  An $800 product, for fucksake, and when you consider that other product offer this as a standard.  And don't talk to me about DLLs and extensions, all the video DLLs are crap.  Look at all the video options in ENIGMA, and imagine when ENIGMA will be able to render video on 3D surfaces / Direct3D surfaces.

* ENIGMA supports many of the deprecated functions and does certain things much better and none of the folder and restrictions in GMS.  Ok they have a valid reason to use this due to security and compliance with AppStore.  BUT they could have made it optional for devs that are independant and don't require store com pliancy, but they are lazy!  Their competitors, no problem, they are flexible and let you decide.

* ENIGMA compiles and allows C++ in your projects.   ENIGMA uses an extension system, allows you to further optimize your games by removing what you don't need, making your final EXE smaller than a YYC'ed EXE.  $300 for a compiler and they don't even have their optimizations done in that regards.  It's amazing all the open source they use in GMS ENIGMA also is open source and it's aim was to do things better, unfortunately apparently some devs fucked off and left for whatever reason, leaving the project understaffed ! At least it's functional enough to do lots, and still being fixed !   To be fair, given observations I am skeptic that ENIGMA will fix everything need fixing in a timely manner and make it 100% GMS comaptible.....But I don't think that was their aim and I don't think they meant for things to slow down or things to get broken.

But having both products installed now I can clearly see where ENIGMA shines and what it does better.

I see lot of potential and sticking around to find out.

Now question is,what are YOU doing here?  You seem  entirely happy with YYG and GMS !

I don't think ENIGMA was started by happy YYG customers

Are ALL ENIGMA users disgruntled YYG customers ? No.   Some might use ENIGMA as an alternative to paying for the GMS Pro version + $300 for the compiler but are otherwise very happy with GMS.

Personally I don't agree with everything in ENIGMA, and one thing I dislike is certain functions visible in plain view that are broken and not implemented yet, which might mislead people.......I already mentioned which ones (Studio extension, physics in IDE, etc.etc.etc.) but I didn't pay $800 for ENIGMA either

It's funny you should call me a conspiracy theorist LMAO because I was just pondering to myself on more than one occasion, of the possibility you might actually be

1) Taking the piss out.....and maybe this is all a wind-up or !  You do adore ENIGMA even helped develop it !
2) Sent by YYG
3) You are using the new CCrane Co. portable Time Travel, went into the future and saw that YYG made huge progress and ENIGMA was dead and abandoned and broken to smithereens LOL!

Humour me !

Is this for real ?  I don't like the way YYG handles things, you don't see me hanging there do you ?

You on the other hand are doing a good job defending YYG and how amazing GMS is and how ENIGMA does not live up, so what the bloody hell are you doing here

ENIGMA is not perfect, far from it, and yes it is broken in some places.  But it does have some advantages, you don't seem to be optimistic or convinced, so why bother.  I'm here asking tons of question about ENIGMA, reporting things that don't work and trying to learn something new and getting into C++, etc.  The minute YYG is discussed people suddenly come and defend it. 

Conspiracy ? Nah, I know for a fact some companies send plants on forum, I have proof of that and know people, and won't mention names.

One major difference you will see here, is freedom of expression.  You won't see devs censor your post, edit / delete or ban you if you don't agree with them.
The least I could say for GMC.  Some of the most helpful people here were banned for ridiculous reasons, and some people there get away with shit and left intact, but they agree with YYG and praise it.

That said, given the type of games people make on the GMC I can't blame them for loving GMS ! To be honest for most people GMS is great and by all means they should not bother with anything else.  Please refer to the topic there called "best game in the whole world."  You don't see people who make myst like games, complex 3D games, complex 2D games LARGE games, really raising the bar, brag on the GMC.  Those who really make exceptional games in GMS are rare.  Though I've seen amazing shit done in GMS the devs admitted how painful it was and how poor performance it was, and some moved on to better engines.  So this all goes back to the original topic I made about the award thing.  The other finalists GM was listed with, are advanced game engines, powerful....Sorry to say but as much as GMS has its potential for some things, it can't even COMPETE or close to compete with the other engines they are paired with.

Long life to ENIGMA, they listen to the community and they respect what people have to say, good or bad about ENIGMA.

@Robert: When you say you actually hate ENIGMA, can this be translated to:

...I thought ENIGMA was going to blow GMS out of the water but fell flat on its arse and thus we failed .....

Or is it that you hate that it has not gathered as much support / interest than originally anticipated ?

Having tried other GM wannabe and clones, I think honestly that ENIGMA is best I used compared to the garbage out there.

I think I read on some blog or even here some say that YYG seems to be focusing more on console and mobile ports now, distancing themselves further away from window, deprecating functions without even consideration for us motherfuckers who paid for the program solely to do windows.  FUNNY that in competing products that do windows + multiple exports that they don't sacrifice windows users in the process.  Why the FUCk should YYG be different ?
and then people wonder why the hate towards YYG ?

Is it true still that GMS uses FFMPEG and each time you call a sound a new instance of FFMPEG opens ? I recall reading about people complaining of their windows tray being flooded with FFMPEG icons, and YYG uttering "oh that's windows fault not ours...."

It's funny but having used other RAD tools before, that supported audio/video etc, none exhibited that MESS.  To people who still use GMS is this still an issue?  FFMPEG for audio LOL and they have no video functions,wow, where is the logic in that !

They now decided to change how graphics are handled......THEY decided.  Apparently to increase performance lol ironicly, it had the opposite effect, and to this day even with fixes still has complaints
So what now, are they gonna tell people to throw their old tablets, phones, devices, throw away their iphones and get the iPhone5, or get the Samsung Galaxy S5 to run games at  decent rates ?  Seems every time they try to fix something the break it further.  (kinda sounds familiar (evil grin) but anyhow.).  but at least here, when that happens it gets fixed in a rather timely manner....not the case there.  Now they are moving towards console ports.
So great now those mario clones, game rips, pixel arts, stick figure games will be console compatible and to a next gen console near you.  I'm sure people will be excited to pay for that !

I'm sorry, what's YYC? Google says it's Youngstown Yatch Club or something.

It's basically a contraption that turns your projects into a jumbled messed up version of C++ and compiles it.  It's called YoYo Compiler.  It's included with the $800 MASTER COLLECTION, and it costs a whopping $300 if you don't have master (for GMS Pro users).....  My advice save your money ! 

Games CPU intensive benefit from YYC.

This however would be irrelevant for ENIGMA since it already compiles and does basically what GMS should have done all along !

Quote from: Rusky on April 30, 2014, 09:58:12 pm

repro steps:
1) open engima
2) make something (don't save)
3) try to run

expected result:
stuff you just made in the game

actual result:
empty game

workaround:
save the project between 2) and 3)

Exactly. That's what i was talking about. Some of the bugs i reported here recently were not really bugs, but it was just that after some modifications i didn't save the project first. You want to test a project, but ENIGMA doesn't run with the version you see on the screen.

Does it happen on games you import from GMS
or even with games you create from scratch and save to EGM as well ?