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Messages - Darkstar2

Off-Topic / Re: Remake classic games.
« on: July 14, 2014, 02:07:54 pm »
I didn't mean they cannot down games on your site - for legal reasons you probably would have to. But if those games were uploaded to other sites for download (so they are no JS or flash games), then it's usually impossible to get that off the internet. Like if you upload something to torrents, then good luck getting that down. :D

They CAN take down from download sites Harri.  The DMCA shield covers file hosts as well.  It does not matter the delivery method used, flash, JS or download, it has to be hosted somewhere, and whatever that place be, can receive a DMCA take down notice, in this case the file host.

As far as torrents, the IP holder or representative can easily obtain the IP of the infringing user, the IP holder will then send the letter to the user's ISP.  Go back to the films and music files distributed with torrents.  There are many ways people get caught with torrent and suddenly get letters from their ISPs.
Of course if you use underground networks, encryption, or other methods it is harder to be found, or if you distribute your fan made game in a closed, tight circle, that is a different story, companies usually have their eyes on social media, torrents and file hosts, as these are the most popular places to distribute said files and where they can gain popularity and viral status quite fast.  If your file is hosted on a file host or social media, THEY will receive the notice on your behalf, however the *LAST* thing you would want is for your ISP to receive the notice, such as from torrents or other use.
The moment your ISP flags you on record as an infringing subscriber, that's not good for many obvious reasons.  Any record/traces you leave online CAN be used against you, whatever people write, whatever people do, etc.  If people deny that and unaware of that they should not be connected online or using computers they still live under false assumptions that they can never get caught and that nothing bad can happen.

Don't ASSUME that because some game companies are tolerant that ALL of them are.....

Off-Topic / Re: Remake classic games.
« on: July 14, 2014, 01:59:40 pm »
If you don't plan to profit from it in any way, then it usually is allowed.

Wrong, Copyright infringement does not make exceptions.  No game company will condone this, even though some will look the other way and tolerate it, the law takes precedent, whether your production is commercial or free, it is breaking the law, (just because you are not caught or the company does nothing, does not mean you are allowed or that it is legal......)  Some companies might decide to wait it out until your game gains traction and becomes popular enough to warrant actions.

Especially for such an old game like that. So I don't think it will be a problem. Especially if you don't hide the fact it's a clone and don't try to take ownership of the resources (sprites, sounds) used. If you credit the original makers, then it's zero problem.

You are not covered by that, you have still illegally copied the resources and used them.  You need written permission first, you can just go make something and credit someone and assume you are free, you need clearance !  there is precedent to some companies allowing remakes/clones after being asked, with some conditions attached, but you cannot take the decision on your own.  As long as you are cleared, and in writing, you have zero problems.  With no clearance you are breaking the law all the way and subject to the law.  Some companies already have given their approval, such as Lucas Arts and fan made movies, by George Lucas himself, along with the conditions of such allowance.  Otherwise most companies will enforce their rights.

dark, we already talked about this before. Even if they somehow don't like it, then the worse they can do is take the game down (or more precisely, ask for it to be taken down, which on the internet is usually impossible). He will not have to pay "millions of dollars" as you like to say or go to jail.

What we talked about, Harri, was a different topic, related to ENIGMA and its license, and distribution of compiled ENIGMA games with source code.  Right now the issue is not ENIGMA but developing a remake or clone of a game, using assets that are protected by copyright, there is then the issue of using the same rules (there are 1:1 remakes, same rules).

If you were to release something on social media and file sharing sites, without clearance, it gains popularity, goes viral, etc, whether you are profiting or it is free, SOMEONE somewhere is making profit from your viral material.  That's why I mentioned keep those clones/remake in a tight circle, you are safer that way as they are less likely to gain the exposure and popularity and companies will usually not go after that......  but putting your files out there in the open exposes them and you can be sure you will be found out sooner or later.

I would maybe suggest indy to update the graphics and gameplay and make a newer game out of it.

There is no infringement without copying, then there is substantial similarity, you are protected by coincidence but that can be debated in a court of law on intricate work if you can establish the unlikelihood of coincidence.  When a game has a patent attached to it, that becomes even more restrictive !

Your best bet is to research the company's who's game you want to clone/remake, look for any precedent, if they have patents to the game, etc.

Also you might want to read on this:

The moment you "COPY" something it is a copyright infringement.  So ripping assets from a game is infringement.  If you create your own work INSPIRED by something and that it is not substantially similar, that is ok too, though non copied independent work that is similar is not infringement, some money hungry companies into frivolous lawsuits may argue the substantial similarity clause, and you would have to fight in proving that your work was coincidence.  It's a whole pile of shite where the fan loses money in legal battles and the big companies can easily recover.

Not worth it.
If you are unsure, ask for legal advice.  I have years ago and any act of copying, ripping, cloning/remake using elements of the original game is infringement that does not fall under independent work, is infringement.

Also Harri, whilst most people get away with just take down notices / warnings, there are bigger implications......

Let's say you were to upload your game on a file sharing host or social media, it becomes known, popular, viral, the game company won't contact you directly, but will contact the file host or social media where said files are hosted, in turn, they will contact you saying your file was removed due to a take down request, as in YouTube deleting accounts, videos, etc...  Not only will they comply and take your file down, they will also suspend your account as you broke their acceptable use policy.  The file hosts/social media have on record your IP and other information along with notes that you are an infringing user.  In some cases file hosts or social media can contact your ISP and report such things (there is precedent to that)........ ISP take complaints very seriously, and in turn will send you a notice by mail warning you that they have received a complaint for copyright infringement, that also violates the terms of your ISP and subjects you to account suspension or them contacting the authorities for extreme cases.    Same when you are sharing files on torrents, file sharing sites,etc, the IP holder can have access to your IP and send a letter to your ISP, which will send a letter to the subscriber, then you have a nice stain on social media records, ISP records, that can serve in the future and go against you.

Is it worth it?

and the argument "oh there are plenty of clones and remakes online and nothing happened to them" is invalid.......they just did not get caught OR the companies they are allegedly infringing upon decided voluntarily to look the other way but does not mean they would not act when they see fit.

When dealing with the law, never ASSUME.  Ignorance of the law is NOT a defense in any court of law.

Usually you will be served with a notice, if you fail to abide, further legal actions might be taken against you, regardless of whether you made profits or not, copyright infringement does not include exceptions and covers it all.

Here are some examples of take down notices a social media or file host might receive on your behalf:
and this is interesting, the kid who recreated PAC MAN used a game creation tool for kids, (sounds familiar ??? :P )

Now even if you inspire from a game and create your own assets without ripping them, the host you have your files on can STILL receive a DMCA notice,
here is another example in relation to the android market:

Sometimes these notices are frivolous in nature and there and not valid, sometimes representatives of the IP holder will abuse their power, knowing most people don't know the law or have money to defend, and regardless of whether your game could be argued that it is not infringing, the host under law has to abide by a DMCA request, whether they are right or wrong, so you end up having your account suspended or app removed.

And finally here is something one must read:

That will answer many of your questions in regards to game making, what is covered what is not, what you are allowed and what you are not.  Some might argue not all DMCA notices are valid, some indie game developers can counter them (which is a risk) because unless you had legal council, once you counter claim, you are subject from legal action from the IP holder.

So anybody online who tells you rubbish without knowing facts, such as "Oh you are ok, don't worry about it....." are not familiar with how this works, and therefore you should take your information from facts and not assumptions.  You have links above to FACTS.

General ENIGMA / Re: New functions available in the rooms editor.
« on: July 14, 2014, 12:20:14 pm »
Multiple views is just as much of an illusion as computer 3D........since it is rendered to a flat 1D object :P
And multi views is rendered to one.

I like version 6 best, as reality itself is an illusion created by chemicals in our brain.

 :P :D

You've mentioned the implications on reducing / limiting resources available to use (instances, etc.)  This could have an impact for larger games development, can't we keep the existing functions/method and add a new set in parallel or your last C++ suggestion is good, and people could create their wrappers ?

Off-Topic / Re: Enigma as only Enigma
« on: July 14, 2014, 02:32:00 am »
Well I am an ENIGMA user and don't use ANY D&D, I do everything by code from start to finish.  I never was much into D&D, I used it only for a short while back in GM7/8, but then I moved to code.  In LGM you can turn off D&D, that frees significant screen space.
Also in ENIGMA you can use GML, EDL and C++ in the same project.  That's what I do most of the time.  None of my projects would be compatible with GMS :P

About the documentation some of it could be better made, but most of the stuff is documented it's on the WIKI, some things are missing and some examples are wrong, I fixed some, and if I have some time will fix more add more......

There are still some issues/bugs you might run into using ENIGMA.

Off-Topic / Re: Enigma as only Enigma
« on: July 13, 2014, 10:55:11 pm »
Oh wait till you get deeper into ENIGMA and work with it more, you'll love it even more ........ :P :P :D

I hope you know some C++ and have good debugging / problem solving skills, you'll need it later on ! :D

Off-Topic / Re: Remake classic games.
« on: July 13, 2014, 10:51:26 pm »

This is a quote taken directly from your lnk:
This will obviously vary a lot from country to country, but the basic idea is that you can't make an exact clone, but you can make a knock-off version. Board games tend to be covered by two aspects: the copyright on the written rules of the game, the trademarks and copyrights on the visual elements to the game.

The underlying mechanics and gameplay tend not to be covered by any legal protection. However, and this is a damn big however, as certain countries (like the US) offer software patents it seems possible that a company could indeed patent the gameplay itself. However, for popular games the mechanics are usually so common as not likely to be granted such protection.

Mostly however companies protect their brand. If your game does not infringe on their brand you are probably safe. Be careful about copying rules (this also applies to video games) too closely. If you have a game that behaves nearly identical to another but with distinct artwork I think most people would consider it a derivative work, and thus infringing on the original.

So, feel free to replicate a basic gameplay mechanic, but never duplicate graphics and avoid duplicating level-structure.

That and years ago I had asked a lawyer with that specific specialty.  You cannot rip assets from a copyrighted game, whether you make a clone or new game, and the above text sums it up.

Forget about the shite sites, there is precedent for fan made games / clone games being taken down online.

Just because it is law does not necessarily mean a company can enforce it.  Same for ENIGMA, they legally can sue your MFing arse for certain things but they can decide not to, but they have the right to.

Some companies look the other way and are lenient even though officially they can never condone such things, and you might get away with it providing it does not become too popular and earn some profit whether for you or someone else.....(hence, avoiding social media, file sharing sites, etc.)


More accurate info there.  Some companies are open to it as explained there, you always have to assume NOT though.  Don't assume that most people get away with it and that most people would just be warned first.  There are EXTREME rare cases where certain fan made games were sponsored and made into full games by the actual company but this is so rare.

You can decide to follow the LAW, or do what you want and chance it. You are provided FACTS or you can decide to read opinions from people who are not attorneys and know nothing.  I get my info from law and people who practice it. not some random rubbish.

Off-Topic / Re: Remake classic games.
« on: July 13, 2014, 07:07:02 pm »
The answer in theory is no you cannot do that, normally companies cannot endorse fan based games or recreated games, but SOME tolerate it to some extent or look the other way so long as you are not profiting from it and that you mention the respective IP holders (example, LucasArts), some game companies have a zero tolerance towards fan games though.  Some people were served with take down notices for fan games, recreated games (PacMan among other).
Copying sprites, sounds or other copyrighted material is one thing, but even if your game is similar that can land you in trouble.  Example of that is with PacMan, you can create your own sprites and variations but similar in genre, that has legal precedent and you can be liable.
Why do you think films put the disclaimer that "any resemblance/similarity is not intentional and a coincidence" you see that in films and some games, shorts, etc..... Ideally you want to make original games, though I can't blame you for recreating stuff, that's what I want to do just for the fun of it, might be wise to keep this in a tight circle and not share it or place it on social media or file sharing sites, though in most cases you would be served an S&D to take down the game and comply.  In theory they have the rights to sue, though in practice, it would be costly, and they would need to establish loss of unless you are making big profits directly or indirectly from your game, you should be fine, avoid social media, and keep it tight.


Off-Topic / Re: Holes in everything...
« on: July 13, 2014, 01:07:30 pm »
You were priest / minister whatever it was your job to peddle, I'm not a minister, just have my beliefs usually I keep them to myself and could bloody care less what people around me think, I respect what they think though, but since the topic was open I added my 2 cents. I'm sharing what I believe but don't tell people don't believe or that they are crazy for not believing nor do I use insults or personal attacks to people not having the same faith, :P but I guess not everyone is like that.

In all fairness, it is true that there are contradictions and crap everywhere but both sides, religion used as a tool to brainwash people and make it an industry......AND the other side trying to discredit religion and faith (but NOT for the right reasons) just as a tool for shite stirring, propaganda and their own agendas, so the 2 sides are guilty......:D

Yet these same people still fail to answer the questions.....many things science cannot explain, people seem to deny it.  Of course this is no "PROOF" of a God per se, but again, there is no EVIDENCE that there is nothing outside our physical realm......  Those who say "Nah there is no God, no nothing" still cannot answer these mysteries, they are not even willing to believe in the notion there is something more out there, outside the physical world. but that's ok.

Some people who flame and send personal attacks you have not lived experienced nor are you experienced in life.....  Let's forget about Religion and God for a moment, put that aside and explain how some people are the nicest people with the best of intentions and get the biggest crap out of life, failing in everything they do, it's as if they have a shite magnet, no matter how positive or what they do........ There are many people like that, hence the theory we are born predisposed for certain things, out of our control, how to explain this ? Who's experiment are we ?

That said, this is the last I contribute to this topic.  I respect what others say and their beliefs I expect the same but I guess that seems too much to ask......I don't know how old you lot are, but I am one those motherfuckers described herein, that has gone out of my way to think of others and do good and yet I seem to have a shite magnet yeah.......What do I know right ? But that has never deterred me from my faith though because on the counter side, I have things others don't, and I could brag.  So it's all about how people deal with shite and what you make of what you have and not what you don't.

That said I think people misunderstand.  There are many types of people, religious, fanatics, etc. I'm not religious motherfuckers, far from it, not even close to practicing catholic, but I have faith and I work differently than a typical religious person, I don't let dictate my life, and there are lot of rubbish I don't buy into either, you'd be surprised, most people who know me would probably take me for an atheist as I am not quite the example of a typical "religion incrusted catholic".  I believe in a supreme being and I believe we are only part of something bigger.... That's it......
And I do acknowledge the flaws of religion and its atrocities, most fanatics would never admit that, so I think there has been some misunderstanding or people have not fully read and comprehend. :D


 I can't compile your game, I get the retarded motherfucking JAVA errors again:

Stack trace:
java.lang.Error: Invalid memory access
   at com.sun.jna.Native.invokeInt(Native Method)
   at com.sun.jna.Function.invoke(
   at com.sun.jna.Function.invoke(
   at com.sun.jna.Library$Handler.invoke(
   at com.sun.proxy.$Proxy0.compileEGMf(Unknown Source)
   at org.enigma.EnigmaRunner$

Can't even compile your game .......

let alone run it.

// ok there are many issues with ENIGMA preventing your game to be compiled properly, the 64 pt font you used in default2, there is currently an issue compiling with such sizes so I reduced it to 32.  Also the collision thing is another issue not related to views.....Will take a look at this tomorrow.
views are indeed messed up ..... Normally
you would have no issues for a single view, but multiple views is where the issues lies.

Ok looked at it, wow can't work with it at all.  I personally don't port from GMS anymore, I would do everything from scratch in EGM,
which would probably have worked minus the 2 views.

Can't compile your game in DX9 at all also.

I love you guys. We're a big fat happy family.

Edit: the exe was compiled with GMS to show how it's supposed to look. The enigma compiling you guys can do on your own. It's so fucked up of an exe it's not worth putting in a zip or uploading.

I'd love to help but the source file you provided is corrupt and won't bloody load in LGM..........
Re-up the source please, save it in EGM format for me as I bloody hate these other gay formats :D  LGM returns "this file is corrupt" loads messed up trees .....

BTW I have a fix planned that you will like, soon, though there are 3 pending merge requests, 1 is corrupt, so it is stalled right now, nobody can add more pull requests as it would have conflicts unless the stash is refreshed....... :D

I love you guys. We're a big fat happy family.

For real, sept I ain't fat :P

Who dat ? I heard my muddafuckin' name mentioned ! who be dissing dis G right heee....... Nobody be dissin Robert, he's a G dig !?!?  ::) :eng101: :pseudo: :cool:

But before you dissed dis G I waz gonna agree with you, very few of us mofuckers use dual screen anyway and it should be optional.  For reeel.......:P

Though you should provide an example, I ran your EXE and it displayed fine.  As far as not having to do dis code every time, I have plans to fix this soon, sorta, but they ares 3 pull request dat are not merged, 1 is corrupt, so it's hard to contribute shite unless some dawg gets the motion going you feel me ?

Peace out !

Off-Topic / Re: Holes in everything...
« on: July 12, 2014, 12:28:25 pm »
Climate change, so people saying what we are experiencing is normal and always been ? Maybe to some extent but not the frequency and intensity.  On the topic of kids becoming more violent, more evil, more hate, school shootings every other day, etc.  Funny but back generations kids were more polite, respectful, they would not dare talk up to their professors or parents, etc, now is a whole different bloody story.  I do agree that humans play a role in their downfall but in my opinion, there is outside evil influence.
I stress though these are my opinions and beliefs I never claimed they were RIGHT.  It's a very delicate topic and difficult at the same time because there are lot of yet unanswered mysteries that even science cannot provide, so an opinion / belief is one thing and fact is another.  There are still big mysteries and unexplained things surrounding us.....some people think ETs will invade us, some people claim we live simultaneously in different dimensions, with different outcomes on our lives, etc......Can you answer the riddles and mysteries ? No, so at that point people will speculate.  Maybe all of this shite is just moot and we started from void and will return to void........ or maybe there is more.......but as long as we are in our physical bodies at this current state we will NEVER know all the answers, and maybe that is intentional or we would have been hard wired to know them.

I respect those who don't share these beliefs but I have yet to be convinced otherwise, that our lives would be wasted all for nothing, that there is no purpose, that we go through all this fucking bloody for nothing in the end.......I have a hard time with that :D

General ENIGMA / Re: New functions available in the rooms editor.
« on: July 12, 2014, 06:10:40 am »
Thanks will try this one later today.