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Messages - Darkstar2

346
Off-Topic / The Bash Bug - Fear it ! ;-)
« on: September 24, 2014, 08:21:26 pm »
Who said Mac and Linux users were safe and immune ?

Robert and company, read this one you'll enjoy it.

http://money.cnn.com/2014/09/24/technology/security/bash-bug/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

And beware of randomly flickering lights or lights that turn on/off or doors that open/shut on their own, it's not a ghost,
it's the bash bug !lol!

Cheers
:D

347
General ENIGMA / Re: Please vote for ENIGMA's new license
« on: September 24, 2014, 07:53:31 pm »
Finding a skilled lawyer to deal with software licensing issues, pro bono ? Good luck with that.  Note that I stressed the word skilled and accurate in the field.
You CAN sell your games I believe the devs made it clear they have no time to take you to court and siphon your bank accounts  ;D ;D ;D ;D though if you end up making tons of cash from your product most people I would hope, would do the fair thing.  As people stealing from code, erasing copyrights and claiming their own, that's another issue that should be looked and protected against.  Not the poor guy selling his games as face it, I have yet to hear of an Indie game developer who makes millions of $, right, maybe that bird flappy thingy but he bailed out - and maybe the minecraft guy who now sold his soul to Microsoft. :P  Otherwise, it ain't gonna happen anytime soon....and if it does and one makes $10 million from an ENIGMA game, i'm sure they won't mind abiding by Josh/Robert's demands.....one could live on the interest of this kind of money so who's going to argue ! LOL.
Or I could take my $10 million and move to Mexico. :P



348
General ENIGMA / Re: Please vote for ENIGMA's new license
« on: September 24, 2014, 07:05:22 pm »
I have to mention that rushing us to force a license on the project doesn't help either, this is something that should be done slowly and be well thought out instead of making rash decisions in the interest of both you the user and we the developers.

Yeah it's important not to "rush" things, but this whole license thing has been trailing too damn much.  What amount of time do you think it requires to get something sorted out, 100 years ? 200 years ? It's really sad that this whole license thing is one vicious circle going round and round and round and round.......Though I disagree with him STRONGLY, that this is an excuse and valid reason for having left the site.

Also Robert, the YYG license does not force you to release or make available your source code to your games.  You are required to use a paragraph in relation to the YoYo Runner and YoYoGames as its IP holder....and there are restrictions when distributing your games through YYG's assistance or by submitting on their store, site, etc......you don't have to take that route, they also restrict on the type of products you can make with GM..... :)




349
General ENIGMA / Re: Please vote for ENIGMA's new license
« on: September 24, 2014, 06:24:47 pm »
First well said eds !!!!

And those criticisms come from someone with advanced skills he could have been part of ENIGMA and made it better.
but he decided to support a company that has made some questionable decisions and taken a specific direction, all over the place, has its users doing their work and profiting from it.  His choice, his loss.......

Damn guys, is this still going on?

This is why I bailed on Enigma 9 months ago. The leads don't seem to have any direction. Which is a bummer for the project.

9 months already, damn time flies..... :P

Sorry mate but that is your loss...... I understand why license has been trailing for too long, but glad I stuck with ENIGMA, many things were fixed since you left.....Remember the fonts issue, that was a pain in my arse and with Robert's help, and long testing sessions managed to find a patch that worked for all.  The full screen DX9 issue was fixed, I stumbled upon a quick script fix, lead Robert to find the REAL problem which was simple, and lead him to fix lost devices.  Lots have been fixed and improved.  Your departure was nothing short of suspicious in my honest opinion, deleting your traces and posts, but that's another story..... You shared the same concerns about GM and the market place, the very same area you are developing in and helping them, nice.  You chose your side, good for you, in my opinion this product shows more promise, you seemed interested and were a good contributor of thoughts, and yet you have had enough skill to contribute to this project, but didn't...... you had uncanny interest for the video,AND ENIGMA then left SUDDENLY.....Under VERY suspicious circumstances.

Sorry but the whole license thing is an excuse, and I don't believe it is the only reason you left......and you might have had other motives for coming here in the first place, or at least this is the impression I have, maybe wrong, but the deleting posts and trails and social accounts, that sends red flags.

No matter what still see the benefits of using ENIGMA over GM, at least for a windows developer perspective.  BTW, nice initiative on your video extension, that would be a good addition to ENIGMA, since ENIGMA does not have the sandbox restriction, so you could make massive games, encryption, big file resources, resource handling as you wish, where GM still has so many dead ends and limitations.  I think ENIGMA deserves more credit than that.

You've had your pissing match with the devs, many have but then you kissed and made up and moved on, in my opinion, this is the impression I get, this was planned, you showed interest for video
but then left, so were your interests genuine or did you get what you came for and left ?

You made your choice, that's your call....You could have been part of it and helped make it better!!! regardless of your thoughts on the developers......you be your own person, this is an open source, contributor driven stuff, you learn to like the product and  channel out the negativity then you reap its benefits.

Congratulations of becoming a new shareholder of yours truly, said other side of the grass........(evil grin) :P ;) The very same company you had negative criticism about not long before you "abduction", and same for its market place.

Enjoy GameMaker and I hope it meets your needs. And I hope that GMS 2 which is due in 2015, will also meet your expectations....  As to ENIGMA's license, don't hold your breath mate, come back in 10 years and you'll see the same discussions.

But if you cannot see all the fixes and improvements done to ENIGMA since you left, then.......well......let's leave it at that.:D  You seem keen on hanging around the forum, which you have done since leaving, too bad you didn't use that energy for helping make ENIGMA better.

Cheers
Go and continue making loads of money to a company that takes 70% cut from your hard work and labour.

I admit though that I too had thoughts of leaving few times, but sure glad I stayed.  Sure there was some rough patch and few disagreements and tension but that is all past, and we are moving forward.


350
Proposals / Re: Changing fonts in LateralGM
« on: September 24, 2014, 06:14:49 pm »
I would like to add my support, this would be really nice to have (fonts, highlighting options, etc.).

351
Off-Topic / Re: Restructuring the Community
« on: September 24, 2014, 05:32:31 pm »
I respected GM for quite a long time, as a paying customer since its early beginnings.  Where I have a problem is the direction said company has taken and how they went about it, and I'm sure many people who has started using GM since the early days will understand and attest to that.  I think paying customers have earned their right to bash, when warranted, especially when many of those bashing customers made constructive suggestions, none of which developers give a damn about or listen, proof is in the pudding mate, countless times they have responded rudely to people making said suggestions who were mostly answered with "make your own" or "wait for extensions" or "that's the way it is and we won't change it" rubbish.  + the attitude of REMOVING something instead of fixing it........and the whole story.

I think constructive criticism that is warranted and genuine is not a bad thing.  You can't get a community where everyone agrees and sends flowers and praises everything.  There are ways to do so.  Most people who have bashed GM have stated WHY, and were genuine, as opposed to simply random, baseless bashing.  As a long supporter of GM and paying  customer, I don't agree at all in the direction YYG is taking and the methods they use in how certain things are done....Robert has exposed many of this as well, and others have.

This is what sets apart GameMaker from ENIGMA, even though ENIGMA was insipired from GM, ENIGMA's developers actually listen to constructive criticism and bloody do something about it, for the better, instead of just brushing people off and saying "do your own".  You can have a discussion and give your feedback.  Certain features found in the market place are BASIC functions that were available in previous GM versions and should have bloody remained, as they are basic functions in other products costing fractions less......But now they have managed to get people to do their dirty work, and take 70% cut ! There is a difference and line one should not cross when it comes to bashing, it should never cross the line into slandering, defamatory and personal attacks to a person's character however.  I agree with ego.....moderation is good but it can be abused too.  I agree with him that there are places where very skilled contributors were banned for very innocent things, even when posted in off topic forums.....this is NOT uncommon.  What starts as moderation can quickly turn in to trigger happy, power fest and outright  censoring.  The last thing this place wants is to become another GMC community. :D



352
Finished Games / Re: Window Styler, Web Browser, and Embed Program
« on: September 24, 2014, 05:22:59 pm »
Very good point, lone is right on that one.

When you say a window is 640x480 it means the whole window size combined, including caption/style/border, since these pixels are part of the "window". :)


353
General ENIGMA / Re: Please vote for ENIGMA's new license
« on: September 24, 2014, 05:17:39 pm »
I don't think the obligation is that you have to redistribute ENIGMA, you just need to accommodate access to and provide information about the program used to make your game or program. Just saying I built this game with ENIGMA, here's the link where you can download it and its source code is suffice.

Additionally what Josh most likely means by you can sell your game, is that you can sell your game and we basically won't give a shit, I go to college I got much better things to do than try to ride someone else's coattails, if you make the next Crappy Bird in ENIGMA and become a millionaire more power to you just don't forget to mention that our engine was used, to do otherwise would be pretty rude. I believe this is pretty reasonable and that any reasonable person would agree with me.

Thanks Robert your post is really reassuring, lol.  But one should never overlook the importance of a license, both to protect the developers and its users.  I know that you would not come after me for the millions of $ I will make selling my game, maybe Josh because he can afford good lawyers now :P but that's another story.  But in all seriousness, I am fair and decent, I PROMISE YOU, I will not forget either of you if I become a millionaire and if I do forget, please remind me ! lol!  A license is still important to protect against those less well intentioned users whilst at the same time protecting the user as to now discourage people from using said product.

It is important to note, yes one uses ENIGMA, it is an ENGINE.....but that's what it, an engine, it does not "MAKE" games.  You still need to build the game, sounds, resources, story, etc.  ENIGMA, unlike some other turn key engines does not come with prefabs or any pre-made stuff...... So when you mention "made with ENIGMA" certain people might say "oh this is yet another kiddie game making tool where you click and build type" which is far from it.  I like when I make games to brag that I bust my arse making the game (original content) whilst at the same time saying proudly that the game is powered by ENIGMA engine, not MADE by it. but I guess that is open for another debate :D

354
Off-Topic / Re: Restructuring the Community
« on: September 24, 2014, 03:27:18 pm »
From my point of view, the most important is the support from the main contributors on this forum. They give a lot of their time to help people, and we should be very grateful for this. We should not forget that it's a free project. This means it's just a bunch of people who are working in their free time to make this project happen. As money rules the world, i have a lot of respect for people who spent thousands of hours just for the fun of it ! (Y)
I was feeling uneasy when developers were fighting each other, but it's a thing of the past, and the important is that the project can move on.  Concerning rude words, i don't think it's really a problem. I don't see people spending their time insulting each other, so we should not be too picky. But in a world where the politically correct rules, sometimes people are shocked very easily !  ;)

Agreed with egopay, I mean we don't all crucify each other all the time.......Everything in moderation, there are more helpful and constructive posts than there are flames against one another. But the problem with this is even if these things are the past, new users who join who might go through the forum might read these old posts and be turned away, before they get a chance to read EVERYTHING.......What sticks to people is the negative first......that's how the mind works.

If I were to place a piece of turd in a plate next to a piece of chocolate cake next to it......you'd probably focus your intention on the plate of turd and react to it, more than say "mmmmm look at this amazing chocolate cake!"..... :D

355
Off-Topic / Re: Restructuring the Community
« on: September 24, 2014, 03:20:51 pm »
@Darkstar2: Yes, definitely, context is a large part. You made a nice point about keeping in humor. I still think that we need some sort of additional control over what users says, but definitely not too much.

He's not the first or last - true.  I've had people I know have the same reaction, but I respect what is said in PM to me, but been told by some people I encouraged or tried to bring in here that they were turned off mostly by the developers, some even saying lack of interest, etc. I won't name names, but to be honest I find these claims disturbing, because it might seem so on the outside, but the people referenced, have been nothing but hard working in trying to make the product better, there is a difference between not wanting to and not having time !  I don't necessarily agree with every reason, however until recently there was one user who was turned away because of flaming from devs, I think some people know who I am referring to, however, it was later found out other motives of that user which I won't get into - So one has to look at both sides.....I tend to weigh both good and bad, and instead of saying "why I SHOULDN'T bother here" I say "WHY should I bother" and honestly I don't regret it, and I can see many reasons to WANT to stick around, despite everything.
Also sometimes when there is debate, heat, and tension it is beyond you, you tend to sometimes lower yourself to the level and act the same way, been there, done that, when attacked......but so long as you quickly get back on path there is no problem in my opinion.   One could easily use judgement and differentiate the recurrent trouble makers only making trouble vs. those who are genuine contributors (by contributors I mean mostly in posting, not just with code).

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@Aegar: You weren't the first, but you also are not the last. I thank you, for your opinion.

One person which I won't name, who felt this way, who left (in a weird way from here) had the potential of being an amazing contributor and very useful to ENIGMA.  But on the flip side, said person did not want to stick around and had other motives.  So yeah, and yes it is no secret that ENIGMA has lost some developers who left / quit due to disagreements with other devs or the direction ENIGMA was taking......For starters things start at the root.....developers.  You can moderate your users and things that cross the line, but at the root it is important to have developers and a team that respect one another and their project......as I think that is the biggest factor that will show in your final product and how people perceive your site.

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So, this is what I think should be changed to improve our future community and our community now:
  • The website: Josh (the project leader) has had a new website design for a while (a few years actually) that would make ENIGMA look like the product it is. I asked him about this before, and he said that he hesitates putting it up because ENIGMA is indeed a WIP product, and he didn't want it to seem as if it was finished.
It's strange but I agree with Josh in a way, however, I also agree about a new site, but you can still have both worlds, mentioning that your product is work in progress.  I have mentioned this long ago, but there is so much outdated info on the site, and there could be better documentation / stand alone documentation like YYG even for a WIP.  I guess that is contributor driven as well, problem is lack of time of main developers. Time is the key issue.

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The current home page is horrible. It's the first thing you see, and already, the product seems unprofessional.[/li][/list]

lol.  I've seen far worse.  But I agree.  Though it depends on each individual, personally I judged based on the core, the product itself and its potential, I weighed in on what I could do in ENIGMA that I cannot in GM/GMS, a product I PAID MONEY for :p

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  • ENIGMA version numbers. The home page can display the current version, and version updates. It would also give us a better idea on what needs to be done before a 1.0.

lol, what you mean ENIGMA is not in version 1, is it alpha still ? :D
But yeah an updated page with recent changes, changes to come, remaining issues.  I agree, but again you also need developers with time on their hands or user contributors with enough time to take care of all that.

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  • The moderation: Those topics about hating GMC members have got to go. While the intention of those topics is to make those members look bad,
In many cases the comments made were spot on and accurate/factual, it is a known FACT that some GMC members have not been examples to follow, nor have they always been nice towards others that did not share their point of view.....and I won't mention names.....but the ones called out, were done so rightfully.  ...

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it is making ENIGMA's community look bad.[/li][/list]

you do have a point there, feuds between communities is counterproductive, even if what is said about other side is so true most of the time :D  I DO agree about it when it relates to someone/an individual, however about posts talking negative about another product, when properly argument with facts, I think is not a bad thing.

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  • The current forums: I think that the forum stuture should change slightly.
What's a "stuture" ? :D

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I think some of them are ambiguously named, such as "Issues Help Desk". A "Help Desk" does not seem like it's community help, but rather, it's help from the company making the product. YoYo Games has a Help Desk, and it's more about licensing and technical issues, rather than GML help. Other subtopics, we can combine, such as the Audio and Sprite subforums. We need to make it more for users than developers, in my opinion.[/li]
[/list]

100% agree on the forum structure and
revamp of the sub forums categories.
I'm even for a closed area for heated debates and controversial topics :P

356
General ENIGMA / Re: Please vote for ENIGMA's new license
« on: September 24, 2014, 02:22:05 pm »
Don't you mean redistribute whatever I used to build my game ? So this means I have to redistribute ENIGMA with my games? Do I include the portable zip or do I have to distribute the entire enigma-dev folders (in its installed form).  ?
Sorry, I worded that improperly. GPL requires whatever you made using that GPL code to be GPL as well. So, you would have the post the source code to your game whenever somebody would request it.

Ok fair enough. Now let's say I use ENIGMA to make a game, but decide NOT to load everything in the IDE and consequently have it compiled in my EXE, but all resources of my game stored in resource files, encrypted, and the handling of that be done by my own C++ engine.
In other words using my proprietary engine/code combined with ENIGMA......In that case the only source code I would need to make available upon request is that of the ENIGMA portion right ? meaning the EGM file for example, and NOT my resource files or the compiled C++ or C++ code of my proprietary engine ? Right?

357
Off-Topic / Re: Restructuring the Community
« on: September 24, 2014, 02:18:40 pm »

For context, I do not and have not used GameMaker. I'm just a hobby gamedev who's studying various game engines

That's great.  In terms of engines, other than what you noticed on forums, did you notice anything particular about ENIGMA ?  I'm asking this because some people might judge based on what they read on forums and not the product itself.  When I joined here I too read flaming, bashing and developers that called each other names and never agreed....but I looked further, deeper, to me what counts is the product and its potential, I KNEW coming into this that it was not a finished product and that it had its flaws (many), yet it's thanks to this community and ENIGMA that I brushed my C++ skills (maybe not at the level I can develop for ENIGMA) but enough to make really neat stuff for my projects and minimal contribution to the product itself.  So if one learns to look past this layer they will find lot of helpful stuff.  This is not a commercial product or a finished product.  What you describe is something present in many communities, particularly open source, free, etc....and even commercial too......You never used game maker, so you were not aware of the "community" they had way back then, which was not exactly as friendly towards new comers.

As far as hoping that ENIGMA gets a final license, etc, don't hold your breath on that, in my opinion I don't think anything significant will be changed.  If I was a lawyer, I'd offer my services FREE to resolve this once and for all......:D

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I made that comment about "immaturity" after reading the forums for a few hours.

I did the same when I joined and had the same reaction - and only reason why I registered and started posting was because of the helpful stuff I also read, as there were so many, and felt I could learn....which I did.  It all comes down to every person's tolerance or sensitivity and context I guess.  But indeed, perhaps to some people certain things might be inappropriate .....

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There's a distinct air of unprofessionalism all over the place and a lot of it comes from one or two main contributors to the project. Granted, ENIGMA isn't a commercial product so professionalism may not be a top concern, but I think

Well if they are main contributors, it means they are helping make ENIGMA better, sorting bugs, improving the product, probably in a faster time span and BETTER than another company, but you have not used game maker so I can understand your point of view as you might not be aware of previous discussions and past history and take certain context differently. Whatever you read here that came across as unprofessional or immature, i'm sure if you get to know the people involved you will see they are very skilled, know their stuff, helpful and very kind.

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contributors or the community WILL reflect poorly on the actual software. Perception is everything. I think ENIGMA has potential but my enjoyment of it is already tainted because of stuff like this.

It's a shame because in regards to gamemaker and ENIGMA you couldn't have an easier to learn and use engine and fast development times.  But you said it best, perception is everything.  No matter what you will never be able to please your entire user base.  No matter what there will always be negative perception of something, no matter how good it is.  That goes for games, movies, forums, software, relationships, people, you name it.

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As of now, I still don't know if I actually want to keep up with ENIGMA and that's solely based on what I've seen on the forums. That may be irrational but it is what it is. I'm sure plenty of others have felt this way too.

Can't argue there, you are right, there are probably many who think that.  Luckily there are some who look deeper.  But I guess there are many ways to keep things in check and many suggestions were given already.   I don't believe in censorship, but I agree that the OFFICIAL forums related to the product and development should be professional at all times.
user fights, developer feuds, developers flaming one another, etc should be kept in a restricted area, outside official areas, because that might turn people away no doubt.

358
General ENIGMA / Re: Please vote for ENIGMA's new license
« on: September 24, 2014, 01:55:32 pm »

The idea is that if you use GPL code (which ENIGMA is using), then you must redistribute whatever you make using that code. GCC is also GPL, but it allows you to create propiatary executables because it has a written exception, which is what

Don't you mean redistribute whatever I used to build my game ? So this means I have to redistribute ENIGMA with my games? Do I include the portable zip or do I have to distribute the entire enigma-dev folders (in its installed form).  ?

I have future plans of using my own built C++ libraries for my projects, which I will use in conjunction with ENIGMA. Do I also have to distribute my own proprietary C++ source with ENIGMA and with my games too????  Example if I build a C++ library to handle encryption and big file resource handling....decide to call it from my game (NOT include it in ENIGMA's source), in other words mixing my proprietary code/engine along with ENIGMA, can I do that ? or does my proprietary stuff have to be revealed too.....? 

359
Off-Topic / Re: Restructuring the Community
« on: September 24, 2014, 01:44:25 pm »

One liners generally do not describe an opinion (unless of course, that line is really big), and those are types of topics we should be locking and avoiding in the first place.

But do you see much of that here ?  Meaning inside the actual product sub forums and not the general or other ?  An occasional humour or funny comment is good at times, people lead stressful lives as it is, nothing wrong with some humour, especially when the people involved understand the context.  This is another big issue where people might be turned off.......CONTEXT.  For people who have known each other for a long time, both outside and on the forums might understand the context of a certain term or post, whilst the person joining the community might  feel offended or otherwise.  Which is why I guess to keep it fair and square, the only way in my opinion is keeping the official forums about the product, professional and the other forums non related relaxed or have a section for debates and other, closed or open, at least people can't use an excuse to say they were turned away, when they could have avoided those sub forums.

By one liner in my comment, I do not mean ALL one liners. As there is room for properly using one liners and there is the misuse of one liners when it is non constructive, offensive, trolling ,etc.

Examples:

"Your product sucks major bollox"

"Your product is shite!"

"you guys sux!"

"Your product is garbage"

etc.  You get the drift.  These type of people are bad for any community.  You don't have to even be a coder, just argument why you hate something and give your opinion as to what could make it better.  Luckily for the most part I find this community to be more friendlier and helpful than many other communities I've seen.........I guess some people decide only to judge an entire community based on cherry picking the wrong posts......:P

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Also, sure, the ENIGMA may be good too. But it is unorganized. Heck, it doesn't even have proper version numbers. We'll never know when we hit 1.0, and maybe we never will. This community and the product both reflect that same unprofessional vibe.

Spot on - I cannot agree more with this and had mentioned this before.  Even in LGM, with all the changes made, it was stuck to 1.8.5, then got finally promoted to 1.8.6....... I think it deserves far more than a .001 increment :D  I guess to some ENIGMA is work in progress, and might always be.......but in all fairness I think the same of "other" products too :D

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We have a potentially very peaceful community. While friends do curse at each other, for fun, outsiders can and will be insulted. We cannot choose who comes

Spot on again, your views align exactly with what I mentioned above, and I had not read your comment yet... CONTEXT..... People who know each other for a while vs. an outsider who will interpret it different.  Obviously you are not going to greet a stranger on the street with "Hey there MFka.....:P" or call some random person a dumb B* :D  So yeah, there is the common stereotype that this type of behaviour is only for pre-teens, kids, teens ,etc...... LOL  I beg to differ, there are probably as much adults if not more.  I have actually witnessed this quite a lot........Radio personalities, TV personalities, celebrities, judges, law enforcement.......TEACHERS (yes even at the University level) some of the stuff I witnessed and heard - you'd think some 12 year olds are more mature.......but anyhow that's for another topic.  On the good side, some of these people can be really nice and helpful towards others, they may act this way amongst their peers, friends, etc.

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here, but we should set examples for any new users or new contributors.

True, but at the same time we should not be robots. A bit of fun, humour and what not....is good !  Perhaps certain things belong in their own sub forums, I agree.
I have seen many highly disturbing terms or topics here that would not only turn away people but cause people to report the site (very serious stuff) but mostly they are posted outside the official forums......Which is why it is important to keep these areas restricted and not open to non registered or new members.

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Still, right now, maybe we need more, or better, moderators to moderate the existing moderators. I know that Josh does not want more moderators, but we need more control here.

You want moderators on a forum with 4 active posters, most by developers ? :D
Fact is the forum is not the whole deal.
People might be turned off because they get scared of ENIGMA, having the impression that it is not a FINISHED product (well er. it isn't :D) or being scared by the license or scared by open source, or scared by the bugs or what not, who knows.......I guess with the mobility CRAZE, it seems unlikely ENIGMA will attract many people.  The day ENIGMA will be complete + multi platform export etc, that might change.......though I think what ENIGMA needs is a complete detachment from the umbilical cord - it should have been cut off ages ago, and for the sake of compatibility might be paying the price now.  One thing about ENIGMA community, there is more freedom of people to express themselves and not being censored or bashed by moderators, admins, or banned because you disagree.......OR for users to insult newbies like some people called out on the GMC recently by users here......:)

So one has to look at both sides of the coin.

To what extent is moderation and censorship needed ? and where?
Is it more logical to moderate the official areas and keep other sub forums off limits,
or other methods?

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We need somebody who says "hey, chill" and warns others whenever something potentially insulting is said, because some of our current members don't notice this behavior.

Feuds between users.......flaming, etc.
Perhaps there should be a sub forum, (closed area / restricted) for certain type of heated debates that has potential to turn sour.  Things can go south quickly - Some people might choose the easy way out of just avoiding stuff, but why ? I am a strong believer of freedom of expression, but also believe in sub sections and moderation (NOT censorship).
Because too much censorship or excessive moderation might have the opposite effect......actual helpful contributors or users being pushed away.  Some people, as in real life, can appear mean on the outside core and "bad ass!" :D but are skilled and can be really helpful and beneficial.  Welcome to life :D

Big debates, heated topics, controversial topics people are usually afraid to discuss, I'm all for it......but they should definitely be restricted areas OUTSIDE the official forums....and a good disclaimer should be added to a forum.

360
General ENIGMA / Re: Please vote for ENIGMA's new license
« on: September 24, 2014, 12:34:55 pm »
First, this thread is old, but Josh has been actively trying to contact lawyers for the last year. None of them have responded accurately yet. This could just be because not all lawyers are familiar with software licenses, and so it is difficult to find a good answer for the issue at hand.

Well difficult maybe in the method used to look for them.  But it is possible, you have to find the right lawyers for the right field, offline, it's possible, if you can afford 3 figures hourly rates :D

But I am confused reading these topics, on ENIGMA's site it does say you are allowed to sell your games.... Which is which ? Most people have no damn clue about licensing and how it works. It should be explained in more simpler terms.

Let's say I distribute my game in EXE form, along with any assets / resource files / other files that go with my game.
Do I have to include the portable ZIP of enigma too ???  In my documentation do I have to include "Powered by ENIGMA engine - enigma-dev.org" ? etc.

Let's say I use ENIGMA unmodified, however, I use external resource handling, encryption and features that are NON enigma in my game, meaning in parallel I write my own C++ code, call it from within my game, am I forced to include my proprietary C++ code? what if I compile the code and "call" it from my game (exe)....... There are lots of unanswered questions.

If there is one thing turning people away more than the community, it's the license, in my opinion.

YoYoGames does not allow GMS to be used to make applications, only "games".  Is this the case with ENIGMA too? Are there restrictions to the type of games / applications you can make?  I'm sure most people using the product are not familiar with all the jargon / legalise used in these licenses...which is why most people probably don't read licenses.......:D