ENIGMA Development Environment

Indeed the stand alone install sometimes can be outdated.  Always make sure you also have the latest JARs.  Those do not get automatically sent with update

I remember about some registry tweak where you could add an option to the context mention which could grant you full permission on an application level, wondering if that would solve the issue running ENIGMA or if it is something else.

BTW, tried ENIGMA in an out of the box install, no tweak and it worked fine.

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BTW, GMS has a OS focus command, you could use it to trigger your pause menu / routine.  Is this function active in ENIGMA ?

No, I don't think we currently have that function. I guess I could add it. What is it called in GM? All I found was "os_is_paused()". I would prefer be called

I thought it was already functional in ENIGMA.  Is it a lot of work to add this ?

He is actually talking about mouse issues in 3D shooters. In 3D games your mouse is always centered every step. This means if you ALT+TAB and it still does that, then you cannot move your mouse (even though you are in the desktop). That is often a problem with 3D examples in GM.

I've had this exact problem too before with some games and some more severe.

Usually before ALT-TAB I usually go to a pause menu in the game first.  I have not had any issues with recent games.

Darkstar2: You keep blowing all of this out of proportion and type very emotionally. So to wrap it up:
1) There is no automatic suing robot. And GPL doesn't mean that a random person can sue you. The only ones who could sue anyone is ENIGMA dev's.

As I mentioned before, I understand that part.

As to blowing things, sorry but since I am very serious about using ENIGMA and have lots in mind, I want to get all my bases covered.  My intentions are to build using ENIGMA from scratch as opposed to simply importing GMS files.  I've already mentioned many times the reasons why I don't like GMS anymore (at least for the things I want done).  To be honest, the things I can do in GMS I will keep doing in GMS.  So far I know people who have sold their games made in GMS and made several hundreds of $ and have not been sued by anyone yet.

2) As you already said, suing is time and money consuming. So it's virtually impossible that anyone from ENIGMA dev team would be active enough to do so. Only maybe Robert during one of his sissy fits could summon the time (but not money)

I'll keep that in mind about Robert (noted )  but he said "some of us are financially independent now" and while we don't intend to sue you, we could do it.  I kinda see where he is going, he is covering his base, the  same way I want to cover mine.

I don't mean to offend anybody by saying this, but when you (meaning the team) decided to make this project open source, you probably knew the pros / cons and that eventually something like this would come.  Perhaps it would have been a better idea not to make it open source but a shareware with limited functionality with a path to upgrade to a PRO version that allows selling, and doing whatever ...  Like I said, I would have gladly paid for something like ENIGMA.

3) That is why we a trying to choose a license. It's not that if we don't do so in the next 24h the world will explode.

Nobody said that, however, in my opinion, these discussions have been trailing for ages, and GM is gaining grounds right now despite its flaws, again I stress, in my opinion, I think this matter of licensing is not too healthy for ENIGMA.

The discussions have been massive on the subject and I don't think much more will happen.

I don't think so either.  I have never dealt with licensing or distributed software free or paid so forgive my ignorance on the matter, but what if ENIGMA decided to stop becoming open source and simply become a shareware, with possibility of getting a paid version free of all those limits ? Would that be a solution (it would benefit ENIGMA financially to keep working on ENIGMA) and benefit developers without some dodgy license

We basically have two possibilities when thinking about users: MPL and possibly endanger ENIGMA at some point or other license with custom exceptions/custom license which are both a lot riskier (as it normally requires a very expensive legal staff to be done properly).

Exactly, so there is no perfect option and never will be.

4) That "ENIGMA is dying" or "no one will use ENIGMA" are both stupid statements. I have been

I have never said this myself, but read people mention it here and elsewhere.  To be honest maybe I agree to some extent, as I see more people mention they could not make any games with ENIGMA and lots of issues than people who claimed to have made complete games.    As far as "no one will use ENIGMA" I said it in the context that if there is so many restrictions on what a developer can do with their published games, I don't think people will want to use ENIGMA, in fact nobody would under the current circumstances (by that I mean compile and publish a game).

here since 2008 (that's 6 years for the mathematically impaired) and I can tell you that nothing has really changed. We work on it as we see fit and at the pace we have time for. It will probably be the same in the next 6 years as well. The leaps in functionality have been tremendous during the past year though. And could be as big this year.

....yet the forums are inactive (same people posting) and I don't hear much about game titles released using ENIGMA.  Sorry for my skepticism though, I think I am entitled to an opinion, but based on what I am seeing, I have some reservations as to whether ENIGMA will gain more grounds.  However I am working hard to trying to do some workarounds and use ENIGMA as much as I can, but with this whole discussion on licensing, it sets me off a little. 

And almost exclusively does the opposite. I, like Josh, have paid for games that are available for less or even free, because I enjoyed them.

Good for you, but not everyone is like that.  Yes protection when done right can deter piracy to some extent.   When it is badly implemented so much that it interferes with paying customers (hint-hint) then that is not a good thing.

Regarding cracks and piracy, not everyone who buys a game is aware of cracks or where to look.  The whole idea is to make it harder and more challenging as opposed to publishing a title with zero protection that just about ANYBODY could copy.

game and then even finish the game days before the legit user could. Only because the legit user needed to wait 3 days before DRM servers were back online (happened with AC, Diablo3, Battlefield, COD and so on). In Humbe Bundle you can also see that the ones who pay more are usually Linux users, those who's software are usually free (and GPL'd).

That's true   and there are cases where people purchased games and could not even run it due to faulty DRM, many asking their money back or using a crack (UBISOFT anybody )   Right, but fact remains piracy is an illegal right for whatever reason.
Of course people who already paid for the game and use a crack as a temporary measure that is another issue, still the law is the law, and illegal is illegal, but in my opinion are one of the more permissive reasons.  I don't recall UBISOFT going after people with cracks when they had problems with some of their past games and DRM, people were openly admitting to using cracks.  In fact if not mistaken even UBISOFT allegedly encouraged it and used it at some point to break their own damn DRM.  lol.

I for example now buy games almost exclusively from GOG.com. They never have DRM and so I can buy a game, install it and play it within 15minutes. No fuss with DRM's.

Exactly, but it means it has the potential of being copied more.  No protection, anybody can copy.  Protection, limits the damage, because only people who are familiar on how things work or know where to get those cracks, etc. will get through.  Try polling
10,000 PC gamers who buy their games and you'd be surprised that not everyone knows what "CRACKS" is, or where to get them..... Some people simply buy games, install and play and don't have the know how about serials, cracks, etc.

Personally I would not use DRM in my games, however I would use my own encryption and resource system.  YES it's pointless to keep telling me about debuggers and how people can rip my content from memory, I know this already, BUT it will deter most people, as not everyone is familiar or has the knowledge to do so.

BUT release a game with the WAV and graphics file in plain view, and it makes it much easier.

That is the point I'm making. 

They weren't trying to get back money because the software was free. They were trying to get money back because they were essentially scammed.

You and I both know, but try telling this to a customer who just purchased your game online, only later to find out it was distributed freely because of some GPL license allowed it.... Who do you think the customer will blame...... He/she will blame you and call you the scammer and charge back.

In the case of FlightPro not only were they ripping off people with an inflated price for software that was not their own, but they were selling the entire DVD contents which could be had FREE through download from the authors....  More so the version sold on Clickbank has a wrapper (adware/spyware) - Luckily some people did their researched and started blogging about this and warning people.

Do you want the same happening to your games ?

Not me.

Those are only children who even make "fake companies" just to have a logo in front of the game.

Sorry but 1) I am not "children" and 2) I have strong principles !  I don't rip software developers, and so I expect mine not to be ripped.  You don't have to be a kiddie to want to protect your games, especially games that are 100% original in all aspects.  Maybe you can laugh at the "kids" who want to protect their catch the clowns, stick figure games and mario clones, but it is only reasonable for a dev who makes an original game to want to protect themselves.
don't you think ?

AAA games or even Inide devs couldn't give less shits about that. GPL, as far as I know,

How so ? a developer spends years making a game from scratch and they would not care if people were to use their source to make their own shit and sell it ? freely using their content ?

doesn't even require you to provide other resources. So you can provide the code, but all the other resources could be removed from that.

How   Doesn't ENIGMA save the resources inside the 1 EGM file ? so if I am forced to include the EGM with my game, I am automatically including its resources too.

If I use external resources and only code in EGM, then distribute only the EGM, the person opening the EGM would get errors, BUT they would be able to see the custom decryption code and rip my game to pieces.

If you download any Source engine game, for example, then in the folders there are plain resources for your taking. Same with Unreal, Cryengine and so on.

They already made their money and they get paid big bucks for game companies to license their engine.

Point being if I make a really good game and earning a couple of $ from it, I don't want some wrong doer to be using my shit and making a killing from it. I don't think that is fair.  But anyhow, to each their own.  Cayman islands here I come ! 

Thanks for asking the community about this choice, and taking the time to go through with this.
I thik can feel some of your love for this project and its community now

I still like the middle ground, and hope eventual conflicts can be solved.

BTW when this is done, we could go register a trademark

LOL!

Most people with GPL games simply accept donations.

Scenario 1: Hey people I made a stick figure game with 8x8 sprites kindly donate your money for my hard work.

Scenario 2: I made this motherfucker of a game, it has 3D, it has cut scenes, it has original content, music, graphics, if you like MYST this is MYST on steroids..... But I am giving you this 4GB game FREE, BUT if you want kindly donate.......

I think you are being generous on human nature Josh. We are in 2014......People would be willing to rip off good $1-$5 games sold in app stores if they could get it free.  Face it, the only donation I might get is $1 from the guy who will gladly take my source and assets and rebrand it and sell it on fucking Clickbank like the rest of the rebranded shits selling there.....  FREE software sold for $100-$200 on Clickbank......it's pathetic.  I think I get the point of GPL to some extent but it has a VERY evil side to it
and I don't like the smell of it.

Now I am thinking...... ENIGMA devs KNEW what they were getting into when doing open source... They COULD have just made the software a shareware (FREE edition, standard, PRO, etc) problem solved.  But the team decided free open source.

So now, you are telling me that if my game goes viral and is a hit and I "do well", leaving it so vague as to what you would consider "doing well" before you join the darkside and sue me you would go after me because even though I mentioned I used ENIGMA
but failed to provide my source code along with all game content I created from scratch....... hmmm.
Even though I did not modify or sell ENIGMA, just making games with it, and acknowledged it, but ENIGMA devs have the right to go after developers because they didn't spread the source code allowing pirates and people with bad intentions to rip your game and sell it or distribute it free ?

Under the current license I am willing to bet nobody will want to use ENIGMA for making games. 

After checking, regarding GameMakerStudio, the only requirements are to include the respective licenses and IP holders along with your game.  They don't require source code distribution.  They do fuck developers in the ass some other ways though 
So it now is a matter of picking your poison

An alternative is to have a purchase page, and offer a free download for users "who have already paid." Of course, they're not obligated to be honest, legally, but it prevents pirates from selling your game for you. You can also do some GPL trolling of your own to ensure that any third-party who is distributing your game is following the license and crediting you in the distribution.

I don't want my games to be distributed by others nor sold by others.  And the last thing I want to see is my $10 game being sold for $200 on Clickbank lol.

If this forum had 1000 ENIGMA users, how many do you honestly believe would want that ?   Why do you think YYG was under lots of heat for their weak ass security and how games could be decompiled !
People don't want their source stolen or games ripped off.

If I spend 3 years making a great game why should I accept that some random motherfucker acquires my game for free and sells it and profits / makes big bucks from it, while I make pennies or nothing.

ENIGMA wants to protect its code and you mentioned the reasons why, which is fine........ But seriously, so does the game developer too.  Right now the game developer has no protection.

basically it is like having a bank account with loads of money in it, unlocked and open to the public, with a sign that says "Hey, I have received an inheritance, it's in my bank you are free to come rob me at  your convenience, I'll even give you the key!"

An evil ENIGMA contributor suing you is an unlikely scenario given the overhead of filing a court case, the unlikelihood of being represented by the FSF's lawyers given that the act would be contrary to the spirit of this project, and the statistical unlikelihood of financial payout. But if you are making heaps of money,

lol define heaps ? I mean seriously, how much could one expect to make, couple of hundreds at most ? if you are lucky.  Some popular GM made game despite media coverage failed to earn more than few hundreds......Probably what it would cost to do the paperwork

So if my game makes millions I could just run away to some remote island (if I knew your addy I could send you a generous donation )

Seriously I think there are good solid arguments here as to why this whole licensing thing should get resolved and resolved as quick as possible.
But if you do decide to scrap open source free and sell it, I will be your first paid customer, providing of course the software is functional.

that starts to go away, and the odds of someone evil wanting their cut is greatly increased. So users would fear their ENIGMA games growing big while they are violating the GPL.

There could be loopholes or ways to get around that.

Example, you make the core of your game, include few levels, sort of a limited edition, and make it  free.  If people want to buy the full version, instead of buying a new compiled EXE they would be buying CONTENT, that they could plug into your game, think of it as they are buying a DLC.  You have previously coded your free game EXE to handle the DLC format you will be using. SO.....the person is buying an extension of your game as a DLC, to which you made entirely on your own without use of ENIGMA....
Now I know what  you are thinking....."But anybody could see your custom decryption in the source"
lol.  Well you could code your decrypter using another program and have it called from ENIGMA.  So they could see in your source, calls to external programs,
but still won't know what to do.

Does providing the source code only relate to games SOLD ? or both for profit and free ENIGMA made games?

Regarding FlightGear: That's what allowing you to relicense your game is for. But I would argue that in that case, those who paid SHOULD be upset—from

EXACTLY!!! And I am glad you said that.  People ARE upset.  I know a few people who got had from this, I think it is called FlightSimPro, they all filed for refund, as they have a 60day refund policy.....and ClickBank has to abide.

So put yourself in our shoes.....Trying to make money, but people finding out that our games can be had for free and start charging back...What do you
think that  does to a PayPal account or any payment processor ? They cut you off.

what I'm hearing, they are successfully selling it only because their brand is more popular,

They are SHIT.  You can get the same software FREE, online, the core + the entire world scenary DVDs, you can order them or download them FREE.  People who buy Clickbank garbage are not aware that majority of products sold in that garbage dump of a network can be had for FREE online and often with better support and faster performance as sometimes the shit they rebrand on CB have wrappers / advertising / upselling crap.

I've made couple of purchases on CB myself, in 100% of my purchases the product I received was hype and did not deliver as per claims.....so it was refund in all cases......Then I found out I  could often get the same software *FREE* or at a much better price.

I see a lot of GNU software being rebranded and distributed by some network affiliates / advertisers who WRAP those apps with malware, trojans, adware, spyware and place them on offer walls
on GPT sites and advertising networks......People
downloading the crap complain and it ruins the reputation of the original developer who made the software, because people think the malware comes from the original developer......

The way I see it OpenSource was a bad idea for ENIGMA or ANY worthwhile program that can be used for evil potentially damaging the reputation of its respective authors, unless there is a solid license
that protects developers because they are the ones
who worked their ass to make the game, while at the same time protecting ENIGMA.....why the hell is it so difficult to cover both arses ?  Remember ENIGMA would be nothing without people using it, and scared shitless.....the same that the game developer using ENIGMA would be nowhere without ENIGMA and stuck sucking YYG's cock.

I still can't believe that there can't be custom / exemptions particularly for developers, such as
requiring they mention ENIGMA and link to it, but
not having to release source code and game content.

and it isn't their work to be sold. In your case, however, you are the original author: people shouldn't feel cheated buying your game from you.

Yeah? And what happens when later people find out that the same game I sold them, can be had for FREE or less $...Who's going to be blamed, I WILL, I will be accused of ripping people off, and people will chargeback.  Even worse, I am telling people "Hey, the game you just paid me $20 for, includes all my source code and ALL my content along with it and even a link to the FREE ENIGMA....so you can even install it and compile my source code, but wait, you could have gotten my game FREE and you were never legally obliged to even pay me !"

I don't think people would be happy... You know how internet works.......Word goes around and before
you know it it's all over facebook, twitter, youtube,
etc.

I got Cave Story for free on the PC. Nicalis teamed up with Pixel and re-released it for the PC and Wii. I bought a copy, not because I really cared about the special features, but because it was an easy way to show my support. I bought Portal 2 for $50 knowing

You have good intentions.   You are part of a minority so one must always assume the worse.  Piracy, game theft, etc is a major problem.....the whole idea with
copy protection is to deter piracy, obviously it dose not completely eliminate it.

But giving away source code + my game content is
encouraging it and facilitating it!  Because if I were to use proprietary encryption of my external game resources, anybody could use my source code and decrypt and steal all my game assets, easily......

But anyway, I am not advocating that all of our users switch to GPL. The GPL is just my personal philosophy. I would encourage it where applicable, but getting it to where users can select there own license is still a priority. I am just trying to make sure that any further proprietary game development environments are not my fault.

It's sad.  Essentially GM is getting stronger and ENIGMA is ..... well I read some people using the term "vaporware" before !  is this true ?

So I guess I have to make sure my game are shitty enough never to be a major hit that can get me
sued but at the same time not too shitty enough to be sold and make a few bucks.....

Imagine once you will be able to render video /cut scenes inside surfaces and make those myst like games on steroids, it's not improbable that under the right hands a developer could make good money.....
but once they see that ENIGMA has potential but
its weakest link is its license, then they will look
elsewhere.

@TKG:  How would you feel once your Dungeon Blabber game is done, it takes you 3 years of hard work, then you release it, but with the current license it gives people the right to RIP off all your content, pirate and re-sell your game.  Would you accept that ?
Would you be happy ?

No one can sue you except the authors of the code you used. So, only members of the ENIGMA team. But notably, any member of the ENIGMA team who can prove you are using his or her code

Ok, this part is perfectly clear and I understand. 
So there are 2 things I have to do, link to ENIGMA mentioning I used ENIGMA *AND* include source code which is either the EGM file or EGM + external resources (if applicable).  So if  i decide NOT to supply source code but only link to ENIGMA, that would be giving myself away.... So most people would simply not do either.  Christ I never knew this was such a pain in the arse, who the hell would want to use ENIGMA from this point on ?

Here are things I am wondering about:
1)
BUT here is another problem.  Let's say a person decides to comply and include a link to the ENIGMA repo + supply source material with the game along with the proper license, 100% by the book.  Developer can't be sued right ?  Maybe not, but it opens the door to far bigger problems.  So the person who has paid for my game eventually finds out WHAT I used to make my shit, and even more, has the entire source AND resources along with a link.  He/she/IT could simply use said tool and compile my game and go "hmmm.....this game is free, and some motherfucker charged me $15".  So the developer
gets the heat, charge backs, and reputation ruined.
In other words how the fuck can a developer be able to SELL and PROFIT from a game made in ENIGMA, when the game is free to be distributed by anybody else even FREE of charge, even by the person downloading your game can find out they could have had it for free !  I hope you understand where I am going with this......It would be nearly impossible for a developer to sell and profit from a game made in ENIGMA.

. So the odds of someone becoming evil are increased by some 600%, and more so by the fact that some of us are only just becoming financially independent. It's a risk, for users.

Regardless, taking legal actions against someone is not as easy as pushing a button.  It's a lot of paper work and expense.  I mean regardless of your financial situation, would you sue me if I made $100 profits from my shitty game ?  It would cost you far more than $100.   Otherwise it all comes down to principles and not money.  Most companies know it is in their best interest to resolve outside courts, it's better for their wallets and public image.   Why are some companies more lenient now toward modders...... no company wants negative press.

But yes, you're at risk of litigation whether you use ENIGMA right now or use GM:S.

Please enlighten me.  What kind of litigation ? I paid for GM:S and only requirement I am aware of is
including a license of all IP holders, including YoYoGame's runner.  But you are not required to include your source code ! You can sell your game on your own, you own the rights to your game, and YoYo owns the rights to their runner ,which cannot be modified.  Right now to be honest I am very discouraged and I am trying to think of a good reason why I should continue using ENIGMA....I really like the software and the developers are quite different than YYG's developers, there is every bit of reason to use ENIGMA because of its potential, but if I have to be brutally honest, all this talk about the license and
evil and lawsuits and source code  etc really negates all benefits from the project.

If you're playing by the rules of the GPL, there's nothing that we could successfully sue you for. But that means payments for your games would be on the honor system, and you wouldn't have special and exclusive rights to them,

Josh, I am fucked either way.  If I follow the rules then this means I accept that my game source and its resource be freely available including theft and distributed FREELY.  I'm quite sure the people who pay money for my game would NOT appreciate finding out the same game could be had FREE. 

Let me give you an example.....You know this free flight sim called FlightGear?  It's open source.  The same flight sim is rebranded and  sold on ClickBank for hundreds of $.  I heard a lot of complaints and people charging back their clickbank purchase once they found out they could obtain same software FREE.  I was warned by someone I know who purchased the thing.

So I'd have the right to sell my game, but at the same time it could in theory be distributed freely,
and if not distributed, the person downloading it could realize they could compile a  FREE version and think they got scammed, the same way people who purchased the Pro Simulator on ClickBank felt ripped off.

What does this mean for ENIGMA, your project is also in danger bceause people will not be using ENIGMA with all of this mess..... So leaving the license as is, protects you, but what good is it if nobody will use your software.

and that's definitely something for us to be concerned with. Petty theft of simple but fun games is more common than you'd think.

I know, software piracy is all around.  But that's a different issue.  A developer who invests sweat and blood into making his / her game with 100% custom made material wants to protect their work.....Not
give away their source and material for the masses to use.

---------------------------------

I think ENIGMA's site should remove the you can sell your game part or add that you have to include source or get sued by the devs. of the code you use in your game   The majority of people who use these software are newbies who are not coders and many don't know all these licensing terms.

Interesting thanks for that, this opens a door to something else.  So basically what exactly is meant by I have to release my source ? Do I have to include the EGM file in the same folder as the compiled EXE ?  So basically the source (EGM) file would also contain ALL the game resources I busted my ass to create right ? So this means it would completely prevent me from using external / encrypted resources and big games as I would have to also distribute my game resources as well for the EGM to work.  So this would void the point of selling games as anybody could steal my game source and resources and make their own game using another program.   

Also on the topic of being sued.......Do people really get sued ? Rarely do I hear of big companies automatically going into lawsuits without first sending s&D and warnings of retraction. 

So in the case of ENIGMA, what is the worst that could happen ? The developers could require you STOP distributing your games immediately OR provide the source within a reasonable time.....It's hard to imagine they would go right ahead and "SUE" you, right ? wrong ? Also, again, you'd have to be caught.  There are many selling their shit games they made with a cracked GMS on the app stores.... I guess even YoYo mentioned it would not automatically SUE people for using  cracks, but it would only if the game generates profits big enough to warrant the entire process of taking legal actions, EVEN THOUGH the law entitles them to sue regardless on the amount, does not mean they will necessarily..... So I'm assuming ENIGMA is the same.

As far as YoYoGames, I am not aware of any hidden contract.  You are the copyright holder of the game you make and are entitled to do whatever you want.  However YYG are the IP holders of the engine (gay runner) etc.  The contract and limitations is if you decide to publish your games through YYG, however if you decide to publish on your own, your only restrictions are including the YoYoGames license and mention the respective copyright holders.....in this case, the runner / engine belongs to YYG.  Your game belongs to you.

I guess maybe it would have been better for ENIGMA to be a paid product, none of this mess