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1066
Developing ENIGMA / Re: Game Information Implemented
« on: March 30, 2014, 01:33:06 am »
Ok just thought I'd test an empty project with virustotal to see how many virus false positives. I remember in the days of GM8.1 and even GMS, many false positives. I unfortunately do not have YYC or GMS installed atm so I can't compare it against GMS.
For ENIGMA, empty project all extensions unused disabled, out of 51 different software, only 1 false positive.
NANO-Antivirus Trojan.Win32.Badur.cubnbc
The most popular symantec, antivir, malwarebytes, etc, all check clean.
Now I have not done further tests with actual
ENIGMA games.
I'm sure an empty project YYC would far exceed
false positives.
I used www.virustotal.com
For ENIGMA, empty project all extensions unused disabled, out of 51 different software, only 1 false positive.
NANO-Antivirus Trojan.Win32.Badur.cubnbc
The most popular symantec, antivir, malwarebytes, etc, all check clean.
Now I have not done further tests with actual
ENIGMA games.
I'm sure an empty project YYC would far exceed
false positives.
I used www.virustotal.com
1067
Developing ENIGMA / Re: Game Information Implemented
« on: March 30, 2014, 01:05:39 am »Smallest exe size with YYC is at least 4mb's from the last time I tested it which was a fairly recent 1.2 build.
LOL - that big ? I thought they had mentioned at some point when they hyped the YYC that it would make smaller file sizes and somewhere along the line, self optimizing stuff that would adapt based on the features the game used ! so much for that !
How the hell could the YYC compiled EXE be bigger than the non YYC version ? Last time I used GMS 1.2 and compiled something I'm pretty sure it was under 2mb.
1068
Issues Help Desk / Step towards object avoiding does not work at all
« on: March 30, 2014, 12:20:10 am »
This is a follow-up to TKG's report, I tried reproducing it and it did not work at all. I've set up a couple of large blocks marked as solid objects along with a target object and the main object. I set the main object to step towards the target object, but upon running the object doesn't even move and stays still 
Put it in a step event, the object moves but trails (paints), and as soon as it hits a solid it stops, as TKG reported.
Put it in a step event, the object moves but trails (paints), and as soon as it hits a solid it stops, as TKG reported.
1069
Developing ENIGMA / Re: Game Information Implemented
« on: March 29, 2014, 11:19:18 pm »
Great stuff - I would use my own game info, but the other added functions could come in useful for apps.
Great to see new functions added to enigma !
As for smaller EXE, will go check.....
I think the smallest EXE I could make with previous versions with all non essential extensions was around 350k.
I also noticed some GMS projects source compiling more than 60-75% smaller with ENIGMA compared to their $300 YCC compiler ! F!M!
//update: Ok empty game, no resources, 1 empty room, all unnecessary extensions unchecked, the smallest I could do is 885k exe.... Going through RAR, shrinks it to around 220k. When I said 350k file I guess that was RARed, so yes, file sizes are smaller. I don't know what a MINIMAL empty project compiled in YCC would result in, but I'm sure it's above AT LEAST twice as big if not more. I don't have YCC to test this, but if anybody would like to try let me know I would be curious.
Great to see new functions added to enigma !
As for smaller EXE, will go check.....
I think the smallest EXE I could make with previous versions with all non essential extensions was around 350k.
I also noticed some GMS projects source compiling more than 60-75% smaller with ENIGMA compared to their $300 YCC compiler ! F!M!
//update: Ok empty game, no resources, 1 empty room, all unnecessary extensions unchecked, the smallest I could do is 885k exe.... Going through RAR, shrinks it to around 220k. When I said 350k file I guess that was RARed, so yes, file sizes are smaller. I don't know what a MINIMAL empty project compiled in YCC would result in, but I'm sure it's above AT LEAST twice as big if not more. I don't have YCC to test this, but if anybody would like to try let me know I would be curious.
1070
General ENIGMA / Re: Please vote for ENIGMA's new license
« on: March 29, 2014, 11:05:55 pm »If someone can't do whatever they want with the game they've created and sell it wherever they want, why would they use this engine over another engine with no restrictions?
In an ideal world I would agree with you 100%, unfortunately, there are not that many good engines like ENIGMA out there, well there are but they have a steeper learning curve, require coding and might be more restrictive in other areas. Why is ENIGMA good ? for people who used game maker - You don't feel lost when using LGM, the IDE is familiar and so are
the actions, commands, etc. + it allows GML, C++, etc. And to be honest I have not seen any worthy GM clone, there are many but most are utter shit ! ENIGMA is by far the best I've seen and used out of the many out there that were crap.
Now the developers of ENIGMA also want protection for their work and project much the same way want things. In my opinion, there will never be a license where both parties will have equal protection it will always lean towards one or the other. Besides, if someone wanted to take ENIGMA and make it better and their own it would have happened by now, there are many cheap ass imitations out there that don't even deserve to be called GM clones
As far as "custom licenses" those would require legal support, I don't think that is an option they will consider, and doing a custom without this step would be IMO risky.
1071
General ENIGMA / Re: Please vote for ENIGMA's new license
« on: March 29, 2014, 10:59:58 pm »QuoteAbsolutely not. A non-commercial-only restriction would be completely unacceptable. I'm sure Josh agrees, or at least understands that this restriction would make ENIGMA a proprietary program.I still don't understand the issue with what the FroggestSpirit said. He said ENIGMA engine (that is the one running the game itself, so the game is ENIGMA engine + Your game) shouldn't be sellable on it's own. So you can't just take the ENGINE from Git (the engine is basically everything under ENIGMAsystem/SHELL) and sell that. On the other hand if you make some kind of software and then compile, then you should be able to sell it.
Basically when you make something ENIGMA you get "ENIGMA engine + Your game".
ENIGMA engine - Shouldn't be sellable.
ENIGMA engine + Your game - Should be.
I think it makes sense. And that is basically what the whole issue is about.Quote1. Isn't it enough to keep the parser/compiler protected with the GPL and change the engine to the MPL?It could lessen any problems and make the whole thing harder to use (as the parser/compiler would have to be written from scratch). Just FIY - we say "compiler" even though we don't actually compile anything ourselves. It's actually just the parser that creates the C++ code and then GCC is used to compile it.Quote2. Is either portion of ENIGMA very useful without the other?Could be. I guess depends on the one who tries to steal it. Technically you should be able to compile everything without the parser. I could actually try that some time as it's both a good feature (as it means you could code everything in pure C++ without LGM or anything else) and a bad one (as the enigne under a permissive license would make it sellable on its own).Quote3. If someone wanted to make the next GameMaker with ENIGMA, wouldn't they have to modify code or create extensions in both the parser/compiler and the engine?Technically they could get rid of the parser part and only use the engine. They wouldn't be able to use GML/EDL it this case, but they could code in pure C++. You can check that yourself. Everything you code gets parsed and then written to "C:\ProgramData\ENIGMA\Preprocessor_Environment_Editable". These are the files that need to be replicated when not using the parser. If you only wanted to use the ENIGMA engine then most of the files here could probably be empty as well.QuoteIf I were an American I could sue you for a spelling error you made in an ENIGMA update and I could win !That really is not how suing works. It can take many years (especially when talking about millions of dollars), many trials (it's not like "Trial is done, Robert won, give Robert money", it's more like "Trial is done, Robert won, If Darkstar doesn't agree with verdict, we can start again") and most people just say "f it" and stops. So you can think whatever you want of ENIGMA or the possibility of Robert suing you, but trials are not something you just take out of your ass. That is why most things actually AREN'T settled in court (even large companies involving many millions of $ settle out of court as it's a lot easier).
Good, I'm happy you mention the last part, because that is a point I was making before, certain things get settled out of courts, it is sometimes the best interest of both parties, but sometimes certain thing don't and trail forever even if it means endless expenses, it's all about principles and who has a bigger dick at that point.
I know trials are not that easy I was kidding sort of, but frivolous lawsuits happen and some people who initiate them win who don't deserve to, some companies will fold and give in to avoid the costly and lengthy battles, this is factual, and well documented, and more common than one can think.
In the case of ENIGMA, the initiator of the lawsuit would have a strong case and defendant little argument as a clear violation of license agreement was committed. Here is where I am confused, if say, a developer gets sued by an enigma dev, does the developer receive right away a notice that they are getting sued or a warning that the game they are distributing is not abiding by licensing terms, sort of a S&D and a time delay to remove distribution of such games....... should the dev comply, will he be exempt from legal action ? OR if say Robert finds out someone's game is a huge success and takes legal action to get some or all of the profits, how will he/she/it establish the amount of money that represents profits?
In other words, a person using enigma, would they still have a choice and be given time to comply and provide source or remove their game from distribution or is it set in stone that they get sued.
Yes I am aware that legal battles are a lengthy and expensive process, so one would assume by logic that it would not benefit Robert or Josh or any enigma developer to just sue someone for not including source code, unless the said compiled game has generated enough profits to warrant a case. Right?
1072
General ENIGMA / Re: Please vote for ENIGMA's new license
« on: March 29, 2014, 04:07:05 pm »Quote2) As you already said, suing is time and money consuming. So it's virtually impossible that anyone from ENIGMA dev team would be active enough to do so. Only maybe Robert during one of his sissy fits could summon the time (but not money)If I sue anybody; it'll be Josh, just for shits and giggles.
Once again forgive my ignorance on this matter but this reminds me of a question might seem crazy, but I'll ask anyway.
What if ENIGMA goes to shit and it is dropped completely, scrapped, removed from the face of the earth, no longer available for download, is there such a thing as de-licensing or prohibiting users from using ENIGMA? If ENIGMA is gone / scrapped, will people still be allowed to use it to make and sell games ?
Let's say ENIGMA is gone, website, any link to it,
what are people going to link back to ?
Quote
If I sue anybody; it'll be Josh, just for shits and
You are only human Robert, unless proven otherwise
Let's say hypothetically that someone makes $10 million from an ENIGMA game, game is a best seller goes viral and the developer is wiping his ass with all the money he is making ! This could lead anybody to sue...... License or no license, regardless!Now I don't know what country you are from, but in America people sue for anything. If I were an American I could sue you for a spelling error you made in an ENIGMA update and I could win !
People should NEVER take "Oh I will never sue" as written in stone or ASSUME they won't get sued.
Also licenses can be rendered useless unless they are LEGAL binding. One of the devs could plead insanity when they made the license or that they were drunk
Given the costs of such endeavors, let's assume the safest, that the license issue will always be up in the air........
and by that it's best to be cautious and assume you CAN get sued, regardless of what you use or do.
Sometimes it doesn't take much for something to go viral...... Even a stick figure game or game with blocky sprite or shit game and be potential success.
So everybody who uses ENIGMA and takes the plunge, assume that you can get sued anytime,
very unlikely if you don't make much money, but still a chance, and very likely if you do make it to fame and fortune.
So for example, if my game makes $10 millions, which I'm aiming for (1st month at least
) Robert will sue me, but he'll probably go home with $1000 (that is if he's lucky.....) and his lawyers with the millions of $.Who really wins in legal battles, most of the time it's the lawyers! That's why class action suits are so fucking useless !
But no worries, i'll just plead insanity and claim
the devil made me do it!
1073
General ENIGMA / Re: Please vote for ENIGMA's new license
« on: March 29, 2014, 03:08:04 pm »Quote from: DarkstarThe least one could do is mention ENIGMA, even if your game is compiled, it is still dependent on ENIGMA's engine which makes your game work.I don't want to make people have to do that, I am sure there are plenty of people who would proudly display that anyway. But I don't feel comfortable pushing that on people. And also, less restrictive licensing is one of the features of our project versus theirs.
I'm sure it's the least people would do. Commercial games always credit their engines, even if they didn't have to..... You could hard code in the engine so that it displays automatically "This game was made with ENIGMA" with a 60 seconds delay. (evil grin)
1074
General ENIGMA / Re: Please vote for ENIGMA's new license
« on: March 29, 2014, 12:49:17 pm »
I still believe that any avarage joe should be able to use ENIGMA, make a game (or software from it), Hit compile, and redistribute that exe to whomever, with ehatever price tag, and NOT have to give a single line of the game's code, say it was made with ENIGMA, or pay any money to ENIGMA.
I agree about the being able to distribute and sell it the way you want it and not having to give your source, however I completely disagree with also not having to mention the ENIGMA engine. Remember that with GM your license has to mention YoYoGames because they hold the rights to the runner and engine.
The least one could do is mention ENIGMA, even if your game is compiled, it is still dependent on ENIGMA's engine which makes your game work.
I have no problem mentioning it. I rather mention ENIGMA engine than "YOYO" anytime.
Quote
What if YYG turned around, took ENIGMA, changed a few things, and bam... Game Maker Studio 2? That'd be heartbreaking.
Heartbreaking,but not in the right way
They already take open source stuff, break it, restrict it and charge big money ! With their completely fucked up mentality of breaking something then trailing on months on, then removing functions, I think your proposition would be very unlikely. If they did that they'd "break" ENIGMA.....
Don't give them any ideas !
1075
Programming Help / Re: libGME
« on: March 27, 2014, 11:29:52 am »Thanks! Whenever you have the time to, that'd help. I'm eventually going to look at modifying it so I can just make my own music format (sequenced)
Personally that's what I would do, I would convert the MIDI to an OGG or use some other format if supported.
BTW yes it would be nice if LGM would list all available functions, globals, etc, not just for extensions but all enigma supported ones, just like gamemaker always did.
1076
Announcements / Re: ENIGMA forums are dead again
« on: March 26, 2014, 03:38:51 pm »
Yeah I agree, whenever I have a shitty day, I refer to this post it cheers me back up and lifts my spirits and laughter
1077
General ENIGMA / Re: Realtime 3D Shadows, Animations, & Outlined Cel Shading
« on: March 26, 2014, 01:25:19 pm »Why not just stop arguing by the books and and books and fix the surfaces in the first way of going about it that comes to mind and call it a day?
lol ! Flip a coin ? You mean like YoYo does
Heads = We break something new today
Tails = We deprecate
1078
Off-Topic / Re: GameMaker Studio & OpenSource - Licensing question
« on: March 25, 2014, 12:04:54 am »
LOL ! Of course not, we discussed on the issue of selling games, I wanted more specifics regarding the license, I am very new to this and not familiar with all that jargon. We discussed more general, but I am talking here specifically about source code inclusion with your games, which GM does not require right?
Thanks for all the explanations, so for now, I guess, more reason to use GameMaker Studio for projects I can do that work, and ENIGMA for the many stuff I currently can't do in GMS. In my opinion, for larger games, ENIGMA is the best path for me, but comes with large financial risks, however, I think I have a solution where I could combine BOTH, but that is for another topic.
Thanks.
Thanks for all the explanations, so for now, I guess, more reason to use GameMaker Studio for projects I can do that work, and ENIGMA for the many stuff I currently can't do in GMS. In my opinion, for larger games, ENIGMA is the best path for me, but comes with large financial risks, however, I think I have a solution where I could combine BOTH, but that is for another topic.
Thanks.
1079
Off-Topic / GameMaker Studio & OpenSource - Licensing question
« on: March 24, 2014, 09:10:23 pm »
I was curious about something, after all the recent discussion on licensing and opensource requirements, it got me to think, doesn't GameMakerStudio use OpenSource in its software ? In fact it uses many. So yes this topic is not something I am very familiar with so forgive my ignorance. Why is it not a requirement to include source code along with your GM made, despite using YYC and opensource elements (FFMPEG,physics, ETC.ETC.ETC.) ?
Their only requirement is to include the license for their slow runner, because that part belongs to them, but what about all the rest of the components they use and charge us an arm and a leg for.....
Their only requirement is to include the license for their slow runner, because that part belongs to them, but what about all the rest of the components they use and charge us an arm and a leg for.....
1080
Tips, Tutorials, Examples / Re: GameMaker related magazines
« on: March 24, 2014, 03:35:16 pm »
ENIGMA currently is not 100% compatible. It is functional enough to make games in from scratch, it supports use of C++ and GML to co-exist, it supports
ENIGMA exclusive functions and even certain functions that were obsoleted by Yoyo because they were too damn lazy.
Some of the magazines are outdated - There have been many changes since the days of GM6,7,8....
Some functions were removed, and some new ones were added.
Certain things are not yet fully compatible or work well in ENIGMA. There are many tricks or workarounds however. Can you make games in ENIGMA, yes! There are even cool things you can do with ENIGMA that you can't in GMS, but there are also things you can do in GMS that you can't do or do well 100% yet in ENIGMA.
I found out about ENIGMA from the GMC forums lol!
So glad I did, because currently most of the stuff I want to do is impossible in GMS.
Thanks for the links above, there is still some useful info in them as certain things have not changed.
Will take a look.
ENIGMA exclusive functions and even certain functions that were obsoleted by Yoyo because they were too damn lazy.
Some of the magazines are outdated - There have been many changes since the days of GM6,7,8....
Some functions were removed, and some new ones were added.
Certain things are not yet fully compatible or work well in ENIGMA. There are many tricks or workarounds however. Can you make games in ENIGMA, yes! There are even cool things you can do with ENIGMA that you can't in GMS, but there are also things you can do in GMS that you can't do or do well 100% yet in ENIGMA.
I found out about ENIGMA from the GMC forums lol!
So glad I did, because currently most of the stuff I want to do is impossible in GMS.
Thanks for the links above, there is still some useful info in them as certain things have not changed.
Will take a look.