ENIGMA Development Environment

Alright, a couple of things, because I just reproduced it. First, I tried building an empty game and running it but that doesn't seem to work for me. The exe just crashes when I try to double click it. So I tried building the 3D Cubes Demo in compile mode and that worked. I press backspace and bam, instant crash. We'll have to figure it out.
https://github.com/enigma-dev/enigma-dev/issues/1743

Edit: Ok, I tracked it down to the addition of backspace behavior for [snip]keyboard_string[/snip] so it should be an easy fix.

Yeah I sent in the past some reproductions and examples, but since results vary a lot there is not ONE specific thing that reproduces it.  I've had this issue happen even on projects WITHOUT the use of any keyboard activity, keyboard string, etc, YET in the past I have been able to compile stuff WITHOUT the backspace bug, and then later discovered that declaring too many variables caused the backspace, but then with further tests I found it was not conclusive, since it appears this can be reproduced many ways and unknown.  Also it does not occur in RUN mode, but COMPILE mode only, so why are there instances where it happens and instances where it does not.  And upon further pulling of updates the problem got worse - In the past compiling a blank project did not cause the back space issue, now it occurs on blank projects.  So according to you, is the keyboard_string the main reason for ALL cases or are there possibly other causes ? And how to explain why it happened in some scenarios and not others, is there interference between keyboard_string and something else ?

I was wondering if we have a roadmap or any future milestone for ENIGMA.
Someone once said the future of the project was enigma+emake+RadialGM. How is each of those projects going? At what state do we want them to be in 6 months for now?
Thanks in advance.

It would be nice indeed to have a road map - but it's understandable that there aren't any - Unlike a closed project which has a regular and paid staff, this project relies on the free will of contributors - so due to the unpredictable aspect it's probably hard to have road maps that can be close to accurate.

For YYG it took them a long time to cough up one massively horrible IDE that nobody bloody asked for, so it all comes down to talent as well, not only numbers, though talent + numbers do help.

I've made personal predictions that RGM would likely take years to a final working product, though perhaps core ENIGMA updates and performance enhancements are happening continually which is great IMO, and despite what people say about Java and LGM, it is still a workable product, it just take some work around and tweaking to get desired results from projects.........  I think one thing I would like to see resolved in ENIGMA is that nasty backspace bug that occurs for unknown reason even on blank projects with nothing, otherwise it is my impression that LGM has gotten far more stable, I dunno if it is the fact it is run under Win10, new JAVA version, etc, but I'm able to work on longer projects for longer periods before it crashes and I have to restart LGM.

So for RGM I'm not "expecting" its release anytime soon as I know these things take time and without  a team it is reasonable to think it could very well take a couple of years - I mean it would take 1-2 years on full time development, so yeah who knows.

Whatever it takes - I've lost all hope for GMS anyway as it is heading in the wrong direction, updates are getting more scarce and farther apart as time goes by, so ENIGMA can still shine even with its faults.

Robert, you seem to have ignored that you sent a personal and very private e-mail on the public forum instead, are you aware of this ?

Also why the heck did the title of this topic change ? It's so cheesy now   I could make a very good pun on the title itself on the making love to the project part, but I know 100% that I will be misinterpreted so yeah....

I preferred the old title because it is more representative of the topic re: someone leaving and not someone fucking it - because nobody makes "love" nowadays they "FUCK" :p

Darkstar, this is what everybody keeps missing. I actually mostly agree with you (disagree with a few things I'll point out below), but this is not about who's right or who's wrong. It's about fundies driving people effing crazy.

Right so I guess in this world, you cannot be both competent and driving people crazy at the same time, unless you are a president   or other politician(s)

I understand the point which is what makes things difficult because sometimes a person can be extremely talented and skills but somehow they sink themselves into a hole - People tend to forget easily and will look mostly at the negative traits of a person no matter how much you contributed, I know first hand   It does not matter if you work 5 years, 20 years 40 years for a company, the moment there is lack of chemistry and your views do not agree with someone important enough you are done - some companies care more of their image than their profits, I'm not saying this is the case here, this is just some fucked up random example   Point being, a flamer, troll etc who has no use would get kicked out, what about one that is a good asset (and not just an ASS ) is BANNING the only solution ? Or would exploring other methods first be better then banning for last if all else fails .........

If people want to read the kind of disparaging, racy, vulgar garbage he writes, they should go somewhere else and not be on a game engine project.

Nope people do not want to read ONLY that, people who know him can tolerate it to some extent, newer people or some with lower threshold might not, again, is removing your big asset the ONLY solution that is the question, and not whether it is ok to subject people to such conduct.  Some people know that shit is said online, and most of the time it is not meant, and that some people only do that to draw attention and most importantly REACTION, this is not to say that there are no genuinely mean and disgusting people who mean everything they write, but that's another story.  Sexual tension is quite high around these parts, and on Discord too, perhaps more wanking - nothing like a good wank before a long coding session right ?    Good points are made on either side, question is not who is right or wrong, question is were there any other solutions ?

As far as I remember there was some racy, vulgar and disparaging shit written in ENIGMA's own code, which gets distributed to everyone, which is worse, in your opinion, ok when I joined the project I channeled it out, but some people would normally just be offended and say fuck off, yet nobody seemed to mine back in the days that there were some vulgar comments and references inside the C++ code.

I also hate this entire topic because none of it is genuine. It's just an attempt for him to make everybody feel sorry for him and stir dissent. That doesn't happen after you've gone and insulted or pissed off literally everybody who tried to help you.

Well I guess that's how some people show their gratitude and appreciation, maybe they do not mean to "insult" - I see people around talking shit to one another whilst at work, then after work next thing you know they are at the same orgy session.

What's the use of dedicating years of effort to something to in the end get destroyed right ?

[quoite=Goombert]
This is by no means a break from the norm, most time is spent on software maintenance not design or development. According to a publication from Cambridge University's Business School, programmers spend 50.1% of their time debugging software (page 5 of the pdf).
[/quote]

I agree, my point was not about enigma it was about in general, LIFE, what's the fucking use anyways, some people work their tits off to succeed and make something of their life, only to get strings of bad luck and destruction of everything they worked for, I meant that, not code, yes you are right, a lot of time is spent on maintenance, most developers don't get shit right the first time, especially not when you are dealing with hundreds of thousands of line of code, even the expert coder, you can have the best attention to detail, there WILL be fuck-ups you discover as bugs, you fix those motherfuckers of bugs, only to create new regressions, you fix those it works for a while, you then add shit because you are on continuous development, and yet you will break something, that's where good QA comes in handy and having regression tests, as far as sloppy coding and being really bad, that also exists - but one of the bad aspects of an open sourced project is just that, being open, a develop has no contractual obligation or incentive to stay, so basically a developer can start shit, then just fuck off and leave something they did not finish, which is broken and left broken, and when you have a lot of that in your code from different devs and at the time there was not proper QA and regression testing, who picks up the shite in the end and all the pieces ? Existing devs, including you who is doing maintenance work and clean-up work, so it's no surprising that most of the time is spent on maintenance - a lot of companies have absolutely horrible QA.

I had a strong base in coding, logic, etc, just not much in C++, yet ENIGMA has caused me to want to learn more and get interested in that aspect.  I was not too fond of the new system of installing ENIGMA, but now I think it is the best method, which I even prefer to pre-made scripts and old method, yes it takes a lot of space, but storage is cheap (outside SSD ) and I think people should take the time to learn this process and get their hands a little dirty, there are many advantages to the current system of installing ENIGMA- just a git pull away from updating instead of having to re-install the whole shit, there is big value to that.

I'm convinced Josh did this. We've all told fundies many times what he's doing bothers us, and he seems to be the obstinate type that you just can't give any constructive criticism to. We haven't even banned him, he can still join and post to that channel. Rather than take people's feedback and change his behavior, he'd rather scream about it and stomp his feet!

You haven't banned him ? I thought he was banned from the specific discord channel no ? and was given his own channel?
I guess in a way if this is true the doors were still open, he still had/has the option to contribute silently, it's hard to stay silent when there is so much sexual tension though

This is actually about a skilled and talented coder, who's also respected among GameMaker users, sending pull requests to ENIGMA only for fundies to annoy that person off. Josh made it VERY CLEAR in his post that fundies is costing more than he's worth because he's scaring off more people than he has talent to make up for.

So I guess everything solution was exhausted right ?  By any chance, are the people he is allegedly turning away talent to be contributors or just users ?  When I joined ENIGMA as a new user, it was CHAOS on the forum, flaming, insulting, vulgar, derogative, it was an all out flame war on the forum, I and others stuck around I guess, sometimes it's best to stay away from specific topics and not join the conversation, learned the hard lesson - sometimes when you join specific topics the flames get higher and higiher.

Silence is gold in some cases, though not always, but some

I guess decisions like these can be a community decision, if he was found to annoy a majority and a majority want him gone, then there is nothing much else to be done and it is unfortunate.   Long life and continuation to ENIGMA hopefully.

But I guess from reading it seems it was determined by some that majority made the decision

Josh and Robert have now decided being nice takes priority over progressing the project. Despite the fact noone does more to help new users set up enigma than me, they've taken it upon themselves to ban me from the main discords channel. Robert's now approaching 1 year on finishing something that should've taken a few days. Josh has pushed an update to JDI just in time for the 10 year anniversary. And TKG has rewritten the same dialog system for 20th time. Meanwhile, I've made huge efforts to bootstrap the IDE, write a new file format, implement MSVC, Android and HTML5 support as well as starting the CI to ensure less breaks. However. none of that is appreciated. I can't get even a little help. Even when I practically beg for it. Instead I'm banned for being an "annoying asshole."

I've removed my account from discord and removed myself from the organization on Github. TKG, and all the other people incapable of taking a joke can now rejoice in your "safe space."

I'm sorry I ever cared.

I can relate and I know the feeling of dealing with people who misinterpret everything and anything and cannot take a joke or comments that are classified as tongue in cheek - it's unfortunate that companies do not look at your overall worth - I've been terminated from a technology company after 5 years in service, despite having been extremely competent in my area and appreciated by the company, it only takes 1 misinterpreted comment to destroy your entire successful career no questions asked.  It's a shame to see this project ruined and destroyed over the "not getting along" between developers, this has always been a problem as far as I can remember and is probably one of the main reasons why the project has progressed slowly.   What's the use of dedicating years of effort to something to in the end get destroyed right ? I can relate,  I don't know what drama happened on Discord or what I missed or what pushed them to ban you but whether it is a open project or a company, people should work hard at keeping their talent, whilst containing any annoyance or disagreement (warning, discussion.....) some people / companies rather take the lazy, easy approach and get rid of people even though they were active - I thought this community was tolerant, you must have done something really bad ? what happened ?   Some people take shit seriously, it depends from WHO it comes from, you've said some shit to me too, I didn't make a fuss about it, because I knew the context - some people are mean by nature and mean most of what they say, I guess ENIGMA developers have never quite gotten along along those years, the sexual tension amongst you lot is the highest I have seen in any given projects - I guess it took its toll on the project - it's hard enough to find skilled coders to help with the project - some want to help but do not have the skills to do so, so is it wise to just get rid of the few people left, I dunno about that.

So lesson well learned right ?  Kiss as much arse as you can - never give you true point of view - and never do more than is asked of you, because in the end someone / some people will find any little thing ot destroy all your work over a few words.

Maybe I am saying all of the above because I am a big supporter of free speech and I strongly object to censorship - unless you did something unlawful, illegal, or that can get people in trouble, I don't see any benefit of censorship on a project that is basically having on a very thin rope, I will never support censorship.  There is a difference between being a troll and annoying and doing nothing and being annoying in the eyes of some people and contributing to the project.

Unless I missed some major development, I do not see why they banned you unless you hurt someone's feeling and made their butt hurt.

//edit: It appears after doing some reading that they banned you for conduct overseeing everything else (contributions, etc) - I guess in the end it all comes down to people's threshold of tolerance, while the "regulars" will be more lenient and tolerate all the jokes and trolling, some people (less regulars) might be turned away or such conduct might be frowned upon, it's unfortunate I guess but no matter how good you are or how much you contributed to something, in the end any individual or company will overlook that and take action if they deem things have gotten past a threshold.

Take my advice, it will be the best advice I can give someone - in many cases it is better to be a silent contributor.  My biggest fucking mistake in the company I worked for was being highly involved in discussion, sometimes hot topics related to tech,I've never been insulting or personal it was all a matter of ego and incompetence in trying to cover up  some shit, it was not about bad conduct but opinion, so yeah a different case - I guess they determined that your conduct pushed people away, from what I read they did not ban you from the project or even discord, just from the main channel.

 whilst a lot of my colleagues who were much less skilled than me, kept silent, they still have their fucking job, whilst on the other hand whilst I had the expertise and domain knowledge, despite 5 years of intensive involvement and good work, have lost my job.  Sometimes silence is gold - Discord is optional and is not necessary to contribute, and it's best to keep trolling or jokes or whatever outside of the general areas for those more sensitive to that - It is clear regardless of whether you were banned or not, many devs do not see eye to eye, and not only on ENIGMA, but everywhere, in the place I worked for, you had a group of devs who wanted change whilst another group wanted status quo or adhered to bureaucracy and shit - tough luck if a given project had all devs that were 100% on the sa me bloody fucking wave length life would be so much better indeed.

On the flip side of the coin people who really care about a project should overlook anything they find annoying and learn to ignore it and focus on what matters - those who are overly sensitive to criticism, trolls, or what not should stay away from the heat or just learn to channel out what they do not like, some people can't be bothered to channel out and will leave I guess.

I can testify that the stability of LGM has greatly improved, whether this is due to the enigma core updates, I don't know as they are unrelated to the stability issues of  LGM's enigma PLUGIN.  LGM is rock solid and stable - the stability issues concern the enigma plugin.  Since updating to Win10 and using a current and updated version of JAVA there are far fewer of those crashes, I can worker longer on my projects, saving, running multiple times without the crash - they STILL occur, but I can work longer before they show up so I am very much happy with that, mind you I've been working mostly on non games, so I dunno if working on a game in LGM with lot of loaded resources with cause more frequent crashing or not I have not compared.

The only thing that bugs me (no pun intended) is this dreaded backspace bug (Robert knows what I am talking about) this is unrelated to LGM, and I have yet to understand what causes it, there is no specific way to reproduce it, so it is very hard to debug.

Quote from: Darkstar2 on April 24, 2019, 08:26:44 pm

It's nice to y ou see you, hpg and few others produce original and fun, good gaming.

awe shucks why thank you. That was the first thing anyone has ever said that was on topic since the time I posted the OP

Regardless, some good points were raised nonetheless, and we can all thank YYG for helping ENIGMA succeed, and we are going to have this same conversation on GMS3 release, which will be basically the same turd rolled in glitter !