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Issues Help Desk / Re: Fonts display glitch / Borders / Scrolling glitches
« on: June 04, 2014, 03:13:48 pm »QuoteThe problem is apparent on AMD devices as well.Until recently no one said that. I have an AMD and I don't have that issue. For now you seem the only one.
One has to go lower level than that. Sometimes at the chipset / chip revision level. If someone has an AMD GPU and noticing the flaws with fonts as image 1 I would like to know, as well as your specs.
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Nothing is wrong with nvidia. They are the only ones who care about OpenGL in the first place. Also, by Steam data 50% have Nvidia and 30% have AMD, which is contrary to what you mentioned. AMD is in consoles though, but Nvidia is actually the only one of the two going into Android and other markets. Nvidia is even in cars now.
In cars, yikes, if that's the case then where it normally should say turn left on exit 1, would say instead turn left on exit 11. lol!
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And spacecraft. I personally like Nvidia as a company and their products, but I have nothing against AMD either.
Same here, a big loyal customer of AMD for very long. Spent a fortune on their products. But now Intel won me over for their CPU (mind you AMD was convenient for me for a while, price wise) but the Intel is worth the extra mile.) But as far as GPU I am sticking to NVIDIA unless I see serious enough issues / failures, etc. then it will be onboard graphics lol!
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Issues Help Desk / Re: Fonts display glitch / Borders / Scrolling glitches
« on: June 04, 2014, 03:07:40 pm »So go use one then I won't stop you. You have a thousand choices with more permissive licenses, less buggy, and well designed.
I've provided nothing but suggestions offered by the graphics API developers, the card manufacturers and their affiliates (Microsoft). Maybe they should go back to the drawing board or offer developers some better fucking solutions. This pissing contest attitude of Nvidia is why they are having problems pushing their shit cards into Android and other markets. I'll be glad to see their demise.
How is this an Nvidia issue? The problem is apparent on AMD devices as well.
The problem is clearly with how ENIGMA is doing something.
Might be a rounding thing after all, and the fact both type of GPUs round differently, I guess that is a more plausible theory given the 0.01 fixing everything so far. It is not uncommon for commercial games to have issues with some type of cards, that's why companies add patches and fixes internally to deal with specific issues - Example I certain games had issues with a specific range of NVIDIA chipsets, so patches released to fix these issues. Same for other cards. This is what ENIGMA should do essentially. And a cleaner more permanent fix would require far more than just 1 lor 2 lines of code so unless someone wants to volounteer re-writing ENIGMA's font and graphic sengine from scratch in a timely manner (before the apocalypse) I guess the only short term solution is a hack and besides, ENIGMA would not be the first product to use quick hacks and band aid solutions, only difference is that there are good reasons to be doing so, where an $800 product has no fucking excuse.
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Issues Help Desk / Re: Fonts display glitch / Borders / Scrolling glitches
« on: June 04, 2014, 03:02:54 pm »So go use one then I won't stop you. You have a thousand choices with more permissive licenses, less buggy, and well designed.
You know very well that is typical response from a company, be it NVIDIA or AMD or Intel or Microsoft or anybody, will always blame someone else, but rarely if any admit to any issues or claim that most people are idiots and will never notice these minor details.... Mind you not everyone has a keen eye to notice flaws but Christ, the font problem is so damn obvious at first I thought I was seeing double LOL.
I don't have the luxury or time to use something else with steeper learning curve, I need something that is easy to learn and quick. GayStudio fits the bill, but unfortunately it fall flat on its arse, which is how I discovered here. They use opensource and charge $800 for it yet they can't provide the BASIC functions, and basically telling people to devleop their own functions, I mean what the fuck, that defeats the whole purpose GM was founded on......I will never support such company.
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I've provided nothing but suggestions offered by the graphics API developers, the card manufacturers and their affiliates (Microsoft). Maybe they should go back to the drawing board or offer developers some better fucking solutions. This pissing contest attitude of Nvidia is why they are having problems pushing their shit cards into Android and other markets. I'll be glad to see their demise.
There are some internal issues with a certain other companies I can't discuss and won't discuss. NVIDIA is not the only one with issues. Just because your fonts render nicely on your AMD card does not mean AMD is free of flaws or problems, that's as much as I will say. Quality control is lacking nowadays, nobody is exempt from this problem, font or no problem, NVIDIA has far bigger issues in its history, i'm sure people forgot all about the overheating and premature chipset failures board and GPU and many others. Personally I never had issues with NVIDIA graphic cards.
Companies want to push release as quickly as possible and have end-users as guinea pigs (sounds familiar ? ) Nobody is exempt from this shit, remember Intel ? NVIDIA ? AMD ? many more to list.
As far as AMD I've been a big fan of their CPUs, and always used them. The last CPU from AMD I used was the Phenom X4 3.4Ghz, that was great overall and good enough for gaming. Any processor they released after that was a let down. It was a blessing for me since then I now use Intel CPUs. (My board is an ASUS P8Z77-V Pro, IB. ) way way better stability, speed and functionality than previous boards I had with the NVIDIA chipset.
So as far as GPU, I'm sticking with NVIDIA, the way it's meant to be played
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Issues Help Desk / Re: Fonts display glitch / Borders / Scrolling glitches
« on: June 04, 2014, 03:11:14 am »hahaQuoteBut unless you have a contact at NVIDIA you will never know for sure...... Graphic card issues is nothing new, some games in history have had issues with NVIDIA, some with AMD etc.....I will call them when I get time.
Well actually I did earlier and humoured them lol they said that this was the funniest thing they heard like........forever lol and said what the fuck am I doing playing with toys and to use real game engines instead !
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Issues Help Desk / Re: Fonts display glitch / Borders / Scrolling glitches
« on: June 04, 2014, 03:09:17 am »Yeah man, we made it up
I just took Darkstar's image and changed the colours around a bit.
Jeez we got you good didn't we?
Dark and I have been swapping PM's for a week seeing what the best way to prank you would be
Careful he'll actually believe you LOL!
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General ENIGMA / Re: Help wanted - Please help me test a fix to ENIGMA's font problem
« on: June 04, 2014, 03:01:14 am »Darkstar2, I will update my pull request on GitHub with these changes to the source code if you answer some of my questions.
1) This doesn't break anything does it?
Please don't add this fix yet! Tomorrow I am uploading an updated program for people to test, this will be the final confirmation, there is another issue I discovered, and no it was NOT caused by the fix, as I noticed it without any offsets, but this other thing can be fixed with a slight change to the fix, so far internal tests here show it breaks nothing, so this will fix 2 problems.
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2) Please try your changes in the ortho projection function, INSIDE the engine, because that is ultimately where I have to place the fix and I need to know if it works the same there, should be no reason why it wouldn't.
Agreed 100%. The only reason I included it in my project is for people to be able to dynamically toggle on and off the fix, (much faster that way). However later on I found out the fix had to be placed in the source so that it is able to handle another issue I will make a full report tomorrow and go into more details.
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3) Can you confirm this won't break anything else on my hardware?
Yes Robert, it will have your AMD card run into NVIDIA emulation mode To answer #3 I will need to confirm one last thing with a new updated program. I am fairly certain it won't break anything else. I rather take the time it takes to get this done right.
I will set up a dedicated partition tomorrow and run this through a set of archived older drivers. But initially when I ran my test in another PC that had an extremely several years old drivers, all was working fine.
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This is all I really need to know, and you should also get someone to test on Intel, which I see you are doing.
Done. And the result was no text glitch fix or no fix, however I want to expand the test a little further to make sure about 2 things.
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But also, we need to look for finding a real fix to this. I am stumped by this and I don't understand why the issues are horizontal and not vertical.
Finding the real fix solution will be out of my league, as it is something that might require bigger changes to the engine itself. They are horizontal however when initially you gave me offsets to play with I saw some vertical ones too. The reason I use 1's is because that is where they are the most obvious. So far with my fix I tried the entire range of letters, numbers, etc. However, I want to check something else, the vertical problem occurs if using bigger offsets, more particularly in the GL MODEL VIEW. The reason maybe this fix is working is because this 1 px artifact is at the complete edge of the glyph so perhaps it's aiding in rounding or something and simply pushes it out of view and into oblivion
You mentioned something about padding, won't that use up more VRAM ?
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If I have time I can also test this on my hp laptop, which also has an AMD card.
If everything goes according to plan, INTEL and AMD users should not notice any change between fix and no fix and should not see any side effects. However if one day something is discovered by accident at least I can't say I did my best to cover all possible scenarios. Right now the following will be added:
* More text options, sizes, screen res.
* Vertical and Horizontal scrolling
* Testing for border problems (Though really if you are drawing a surface / box or whatever on top of a room you could easily just make it (room_width + 1) and (room_height + 1) but I don't think there should be border problems. There was not when we tested bigger offsets, only a few.
Anything else I should add ? I don't believe a 1/100th offset will cause any harm. While I am confident,I am not 100% yet, but so far getting close
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Announcements / Re: Licensing, the ultimatum
« on: June 04, 2014, 01:10:55 am »
Anybody with the right tools can figure out the EXE they are running was compiled with ENIGMA.
A 5 year old can figure it out, it's easy.
A 5 year old can figure it out, it's easy.
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General ENIGMA / Re: Help wanted - Please help me test a fix to ENIGMA's font problem
« on: June 04, 2014, 01:06:51 am »I still can't fucking believe this, moving the projection it is acting like you are moving the texture matrix. This just, should not be happening! It makes no sense.
Anybody want to volunteer testing this with onboard video or non AMD / NVIDIA card ?
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Issues Help Desk / Re: Fonts display glitch / Borders / Scrolling glitches
« on: June 04, 2014, 01:00:45 am »
That said, this problem still makes no fucking sense. I don't believe you guys are even having this problem, shifting the projection for you guys is like shifting the fucking texture matrix, it's insane!
Right like we have better things to do and just making shit up and this is all just a bad dream Anyhow this is not a topic about who's dick is larger and who has a better GPU but finding a fix (as gay as it might be) that works for all of us so we can move on to other serious stuff need fixing As Harri suggested maybe this fix is helping with the rounding. I work with what I have.
All the suggestions you gave me I did and none worked 100%. But of course there was no way of knowing unless trying, which I did......
To be honest this 0.01 thing was random, I too never expected it to be the ideal fix.
But unless you have a contact at NVIDIA you will never know for sure...... Graphic card issues is nothing new, some games in history have had issues with NVIDIA, some with AMD etc.....
For legal reasons I won't go into details about why I would never use AMD.....I just know stuff and I will leave it at that.
Yeah NVIDIA has its flaws, so does Intel so does the fucked up AMD CPUs that came after the Phenom x4's.
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General ENIGMA / Re: Help wanted - Please help me test a fix to ENIGMA's font problem
« on: June 04, 2014, 12:51:10 am »I tested and can confirm whether the fix is enabled or not, it does not make any difference on my end. And I would like to add I am really fucking stumped. Look at the first image, at the top, how come that 1 draws fine but the other 1's below do not?
Also, I have an AMD card.
Coding wizardry Robert LOL !
I drew the instructions with offsets 0.1 so that they can be readable, and the 1's below with no offset by default. Easy.
In your case are you confirming that all the 1's look like image 2 whether fix is on or off? If you confirm yes then it's good news. BTW don't apply those fixes yet there is something else I discovered, and will work on that tomorrow. These offsets have to be made in the CPP as I found some other anomalies that needed correction, vertical scrolling. (I will upload a new demo tomorrow) The V scrolling glitch occurs even with no offset anywhere, so I found that 0.01, 0.01 (XY) will fix it all but as long as they are in the GLMatrix.cpp. I would like to upload the 2nd test to make sure it is ok for everyone.
I knew somehow you'd ask about the 1 on top being fine LOL.
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General ENIGMA / Re: Help wanted - Please help me test a fix to ENIGMA's font problem
« on: June 03, 2014, 08:53:36 pm »
Great, please let me know.
@Harri: Ok I discovered another flaw other than the fonts, vertical scroll indeed is flickering 1px at the seam, that is even without no offset anywhere, so by setting 0.01 on both X and Y it fixes it ! However, since the background scrolling is not in an object event and room itself, the offsets don't work inside my draw event. So to fix this I hard coded the fixes inside GLMatrix.cpp. Initial testing worked for me, no more scroll glitch, and text is fine. So I'll make one final interactive test demo with the changes applied, and if it works for everyone then to me it will be case closed and it will be up to the power that be to apply the changes if they desire. I even saw that scroll bug in full native 1920x1080, so perhaps this is a scaling issue as it happens in full screen. and it happened without any offset or changes, interesting. so this 0.01 thing indeed might be helping with rounding, and if it has no adverse effect on AMD (I doubt it will) then this horror story ends well ! lol!
Again I tested all this in D3D window and full screen ( full screen by having the game set it for me when run ) and none of these flaws, so indeed this is only opengl related.
@Harri: Ok I discovered another flaw other than the fonts, vertical scroll indeed is flickering 1px at the seam, that is even without no offset anywhere, so by setting 0.01 on both X and Y it fixes it ! However, since the background scrolling is not in an object event and room itself, the offsets don't work inside my draw event. So to fix this I hard coded the fixes inside GLMatrix.cpp. Initial testing worked for me, no more scroll glitch, and text is fine. So I'll make one final interactive test demo with the changes applied, and if it works for everyone then to me it will be case closed and it will be up to the power that be to apply the changes if they desire. I even saw that scroll bug in full native 1920x1080, so perhaps this is a scaling issue as it happens in full screen. and it happened without any offset or changes, interesting. so this 0.01 thing indeed might be helping with rounding, and if it has no adverse effect on AMD (I doubt it will) then this horror story ends well ! lol!
Again I tested all this in D3D window and full screen ( full screen by having the game set it for me when run ) and none of these flaws, so indeed this is only opengl related.
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General ENIGMA / Re: Help wanted - Please help me test a fix to ENIGMA's font problem
« on: June 03, 2014, 06:55:12 pm »
I have an AMD on my other system so I can try this out.
I meant AMD GPU (graphic card).
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That is grounds for a huge flame war and given the maturity level of a couple of the forum members here I am not prepared to enter into that one
oh ok then lol.
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General ENIGMA / Re: Help wanted - Please help me test a fix to ENIGMA's font problem
« on: June 03, 2014, 05:44:09 pm »Works for me too. Geforce 660Ti, Win8.1, driver 337.88.
So we both have the same card and drivers Except I have Win7.
Thanks for your feedback, glad to know it works on your end too.
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We need AMD people to test this. Also, we should make sure also no other graphical anomalies appear,
Yes I fully agree, but I don't know anybody personally with an AMD card and all my systems and old gfx cards I have are NVIDIA. The only thing AMD I used was CPU. Now I use Intel CPUs.
So far I did not notice any anomaly, I doubt that a 0.01 offset X would cause that much damage. The rounding vertices thingy I tried had major anomalies with scrolling and other, so that is completely ruled out.
Thanks for your feedback, indeed will make a revision 2, if this revision 1 works for all will add new elements. BTW, since only X is offset, I assumed it would not affect vertical scrolling. But just for principles I will add vertical.
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like texture scrolling bug. In the example horizontal scroll looks fine. Is vertical scroll fine as well? And is there no 1 pixel boarder top/bottom of the screen? Because when I tried to fix an off-by-one error in rendering when I fixed one thing, another broke.
Yes I know about the border, with this offset I doubt it will cause borders. I too tried many offsets and only few specific ranges caused it.
My next revision of this project will add vertical scrolling and change background color to blue and draw a black rectangle filling room area. Having x and y ortho + GL MODEL VIEW offsets too big caused the border issues, I think we are safe with this range.
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So I ended up not fixing it. Maybe this will fix it as well. Mathematically this fix helps with rounding, but it's weird that only x needs to be changed. Would make more sense if both x and y be 0.01.
Yeah I thought about that too lol, I guess the artifacts I was seeing were "dissolved" by X offsets, and horizontal line artifacts by Y offsets. But the horizontal artifacts occurred mostly when I played with Y. But with a tiny 0.01 I guess I could do X and Y. I will include all this in version 2
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You keep being emotional like a girl on a period. You didn't even mention the d3d_set_projection_ortho(0.01,0,room_width,room_height,0) fix in the previous topic. So when exactly was the place when no one wanted that solution?
Glad you asked Here are some comments I received:
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From Robert:
OGL does not have pixel alignment issues, the issues are in the sampler
for certain cards, I have never once seen blurry text and noone else has.
So if it's not a pixel alignment issue how the hell come this gets resolved with an offset ? or am I missing something? Be it sampler or alignment or whatever reason is besides the point (no pun intended), what matters is masking this visual anomaly Also I don't know in how many languages I have to keep saying I don't have blurry text, I posted so many screen shots so far.
Also despite Josh merging with lot of reservation he really was against this hack to begin with......this is still an offset, and that is what I was playing it from beginning, except this time I am not touching GL MODEL VIEW, the settings there is what caused most issues for people it seems.
Then the comments Robert made about / making it clear that offsets would not be used as a fix as everyone complained they have issues and only I have the issues which is utter bullshit!!! I proved him wrong with my topic, so far everyone who replied has seen the same issue as me and the offset fixes works for everyone so far. In some cases some people saw no anomaly fix or no fix, which is still good news as it shows that this offset does not have any adverse effects on people who never did have the anomaly in the first place. So if the results of my 2nd revision project will be positive for all I see no reason why not use this quick fix ..... You've all said you were too busy to fix major things in ENIGMA, that's fine, and unfortunately I don't have the skills to fix ENIGMA myself, so what's left ? A quick fix until eventually an actual ENIGMA developer fixes it or someone new fixes it..........I think this is fair. But regardless of the decision to be taken, I can do what I want with my projects and I WILL use the offsets. There is no way I am releasing projects with messed text.
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And when did someone said that we won't apply a "band aid" solution? We, just like you, just acknowledge that quick hacks are not the best solutions, but we don't dismiss them. If it works, then it will be applied.
I have not refused any suggestions given to me here, and gladly tested everything suggested to me, and some worked well, but not 100%, some had no effect, some made stuff worse by a mile. But the only one that works 100% so far is the 0.01., I will make sure once I confirm vertical scrolling works and no border issues.
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ENIGMA has quick fixes in many places in the sourcecode already.
Yeah I know Better a quick fix than no fix and wait till someone has enough time which is unlikely any time soon
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So just chill the fuck out. What we DON'T want to apply is a fix that works for you, but breaks shit for others.
LOL why the fuck did you think I started this topic ? I said from the start I would like a fix that works for all which is why this topic exists. FFS these are not life or death changes, if something gets discovered eventually it can be removed, we are talking about a quick easy fix a 2 year old can apply, it's not rocket scienece, it's 1 line of code !
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That is what the previous topic was all about. We tried offsets, we tried rounding and both worked for some and not for others.
I don't think anybody did the more extensive tests.
The rounding 1000 worked for me, but later when I tried different fonts and sizes I saw that there were some bits and pieces of lines left.
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We don't test everything. Most of the time only certain examples are tested to see if nothing backwards compatible breaks. In this case it's not even broken, it's just not implemented. The fact that it took 1.5 years for someone to report it kind of shows how little that "feature" was used.
Or how little people were using ENIGMA, some of those flaws were very obvious and so easy to reproduce it's strange that they were not caught.
I only joined ENIGMA since January, and I noticed the DX9 issue not long after I started using ENIGMA and I reported it. along with the many other issues.
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I for one, never use full screen. So I didn't notice. Probably is quite trivial to fix though.
You don't have to use full screen, simply move the window by dragging it, or even clicking on it and the entire display disappears.
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external resources could be a pain. If someone doesn't know, the reason DX doesn't render anything after fullscreen or after alt+tab, is because it has destroyed the context. Basically it has disconnected the device (GPU) and deleted all resources. Which means you have to reinit the device and reload all resources. Reloading stuff inside the .exe shouldn't be hard, but loading external resources will be harder, as you load them yourself, and we don't store things like paths or anything else.
I agree with you, unless someone used a script to detect in their game to reinit their resources but that would be a pain too.
How come this is a non issue with D3D games I play, going windows to FS, never had this issue, is it because games have their own reinit routines ?
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better. It also explains why sometimes alt+tab outside a game takes freaking 25 seconds. While in OGL games it is instantaneous. That is why you should use GL on Windows as well. Some game engines are becoming exclusively GL, like id Tech engine (Doom3, Rage, Wolfeinsten). Source actually works faster on Windows when running on GL
I agree and this is why I will use GL, now that I have almost stumbled upon a fix that works for all it is more encouraging
Would there be any advantages of using DX9 over GL for a game in ENIGMA ?
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General ENIGMA / Re: Help wanted - Please help me test a fix to ENIGMA's font problem
« on: June 03, 2014, 04:27:50 pm »Well, sometimes OpenGl can be broken too ! For example, if you want to use in Enigma multiple views with OpenGl, it doesn't work. But it works in DX9 !
Exactly, but right now until the DX9 screen issue is fixed, using DX9 is not an option. Even windows mode, if you move the window the entire game area goes blank. Was this always a problem in ENIGMA (the DX9 issue?) I don't remember it existing when I first used ENIGMA or perhaps did not pay much attention to it.
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General ENIGMA / Re: Help wanted - Please help me test a fix to ENIGMA's font problem
« on: June 03, 2014, 03:07:37 pm »
Fair enough, so anyway my EXE will target windows platform anyway so it's fine.
I would like to get comments from TKG, (once he returns from his trip to the sun and moon ) and Harri. & Robert if he wants to. I'm not even going to post a screenshot of the disaster the round 100, 1000 tip creates with my project, the scrolling background completely garbles and flickers like crazy (no lines, but entire image flickering and jumbled with garbled mess) and text all screwed up. When used with text alone it seems ok, but that was an illusion. The 0.01 offset so far works with everything in all modes, all fonts, all sizes.
So whilst they are busy figuring out an official fix and release it in 20 maybe 50 years from now, for anybody interested in how I made the fix happen in my project simply take a look at the EGM source, it's 1 simple function in the draw event:
d3d_set_projection_ortho(0.01,0,room_width,room_height,0);
In my case I will just modify the offset directly in the source CPP file and compile all my projects with that.
This until anybody else comes with a better idea that is works fully 100% not just partial and yields the same good results with everybody. I'm aiming for at least AMD and NVIDIA good results on these. Right now this is a band aid solution since ENIGMA is not going to get any major fixing anytime soon in this life cycle. Some devs keep on bashing the fix idea, so come up with a better idea then or accept it as a temporary fix. This is fucked up ! First I get given tons of offsets to play with and then it's out of the question and mentioned they would not use that method of fix. LOL ! Whilst the devs keep on inflating their egos and dreaming of 20 years from now when ENIGMA will draw fonts properly on all GPU types, I in the meantime will use a fix that works for me and everyone and does not have any adverse effects (proof is in the pudding so far!!!).
And yes in case some are wondering this flaw is only in OPENGL.
In DX9 the same project requires no fix and displays properly as it should. I would have used DX9 but DX9 is broken too, GENIUS, whoever tested it did not think it was necessary to hit F4 and see if full screen works. oh well, My C++ skill set is not up to par to fix it and never will So until then I have to use OPENGL........
I would like to get comments from TKG, (once he returns from his trip to the sun and moon ) and Harri. & Robert if he wants to. I'm not even going to post a screenshot of the disaster the round 100, 1000 tip creates with my project, the scrolling background completely garbles and flickers like crazy (no lines, but entire image flickering and jumbled with garbled mess) and text all screwed up. When used with text alone it seems ok, but that was an illusion. The 0.01 offset so far works with everything in all modes, all fonts, all sizes.
So whilst they are busy figuring out an official fix and release it in 20 maybe 50 years from now, for anybody interested in how I made the fix happen in my project simply take a look at the EGM source, it's 1 simple function in the draw event:
d3d_set_projection_ortho(0.01,0,room_width,room_height,0);
In my case I will just modify the offset directly in the source CPP file and compile all my projects with that.
This until anybody else comes with a better idea that is works fully 100% not just partial and yields the same good results with everybody. I'm aiming for at least AMD and NVIDIA good results on these. Right now this is a band aid solution since ENIGMA is not going to get any major fixing anytime soon in this life cycle. Some devs keep on bashing the fix idea, so come up with a better idea then or accept it as a temporary fix. This is fucked up ! First I get given tons of offsets to play with and then it's out of the question and mentioned they would not use that method of fix. LOL ! Whilst the devs keep on inflating their egos and dreaming of 20 years from now when ENIGMA will draw fonts properly on all GPU types, I in the meantime will use a fix that works for me and everyone and does not have any adverse effects (proof is in the pudding so far!!!).
And yes in case some are wondering this flaw is only in OPENGL.
In DX9 the same project requires no fix and displays properly as it should. I would have used DX9 but DX9 is broken too, GENIUS, whoever tested it did not think it was necessary to hit F4 and see if full screen works. oh well, My C++ skill set is not up to par to fix it and never will So until then I have to use OPENGL........