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Goombert
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Reply #16 Posted on: May 21, 2014, 10:24:57 pm |
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Location: Cappuccino, CA Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2993
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Well, Darkstar2, the good old days is a logical fallacy, that said, I still agree with you. In one of my classes for school we just learned about the cohort effect, which is why it is also a very bad idea to make correlations about the development of people of different ages when studied concurrently. Anyway, I still play SimCity 2000 from time to time in my DOSBox. You can not convince me this game was not phenomenal for its time, and is not still the same today. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgW3hDuQqGU
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« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 04:10:23 am by Robert B Colton »
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I think it was Leonardo da Vinci who once said something along the lines of "If you build the robots, they will make games." or something to that effect.
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Darkstar2
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Reply #17 Posted on: May 21, 2014, 11:57:10 pm |
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Joined: Jan 2014
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As far as your last comment, I don't know exactly who you are aiming with this, but I have not gone "oh older games are better just because they are" I usually back up my arguments in length if you bothered to read my posts. Not a one liner person. I could have said the opposite but you deleted your post :V
There is a reason for that which I explained and re-explained below. After re-reading I realised I should have added that I also thought some older games were crap too and that not all were great, just hit the delete button quickly but then when I saw the tone of your last sentences, I said fuck it, why should I justify myself. I don't respond kindly to childish / sarcastic / flames. Point being, I have never said one line comments without backing up my arguments. People who read my lengthy posts know that I go into details (sometimes too much) From now on I am going to debate and discuss / reply to constructive posts, not flaming. Another very unfair remark you made, that people who complain that a specific modern game "SUCKS" are people stuck in old times...... I am not stuck in old times.......when I say that a specific game sucks it is because I don't like it......bad story, bad gameplay, too easy, buggy....
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« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 12:50:33 am by Darkstar2 »
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Darkstar2
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Reply #18 Posted on: May 22, 2014, 12:00:44 am |
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Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 1238
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Well, Darkstar2, the good old days is a logical fallacy, that said, I still agree with you. In one of my classes for school we just learned about the cohort effect, which is why it is also a very bad idea to make correlations about the development of people of different ages when studied concurrently.
Yeah I kinda should of seen it coming that my post would be taken out of context by some, luckily it only got misinterpreted by 1 person here. I deleted it but should have just edited ! Perhaps I should have worded better in adding that ALSO there have been crappy games back then, that not ALL old games were big hits. What I meant to say originally is that the trends were different, some games were harder, the longevity was higher, I mean some adventure games had 50-70+++ hours of gameplay........Where most games now you can go through so quickly, within hours. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgW3hDuQqGU[/quote] BTW, that site does not allow hot linking
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« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 12:48:08 am by Darkstar2 »
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TheExDeus
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Reply #19 Posted on: May 22, 2014, 03:15:28 am |
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1860
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So true, but then again there is the psychological factor of people playing against other live human beings and feeling right up there and powerful as they go on a frag frenzy If multiplayer is bad, then it doesn't matter if you fight humans or AI's. Today most people play multiplayer games like BF4 or COD. On the other hand competitive multiplayer is either Starcraft or LoL. The difference between them is that one has a lot of luck - weapons damage is 'from - to'. Starcraft and LoL has constant very precise damage. LoL has critical hits, but that is about the only thing on percentage right now. They removed everything else like that because competitive multiplayer needs to be about skill, not about random number generator. And while competitive multiplayer is not really "casual", the same logic actually applies to casual games as well. Counter-Strike, for example, was and is quite casual (with a large competitive aspect of course). But there is also very little random involved. The most popular casual game that did this was Quake3 - almost every weapon in that game shoots with 100% precision, so you don't have to rely on luck, but skill. With "casual" in this context I meant "popular". Like Quake3 of course was very competitive, but it was also a game everyone played. and the cardboard box and DVD would end up in the recycling bin, smashed to smithereens ! That just shows how today people have anger issues and lack patience. It's in no way a good thing and shouldn't be bragged about. Some people have all the time to spend playing games, some don't..... Grown people in the 80's and 90's had as much time as we have now. So lack of time isn't a good reason on why games need to be easy. That's exactly my point ! Your point seemed to be that regenerative healing is arcade, but picking up healthpacks is simulator. I said that none of those are simulators. If these games were based off realistic models, people would probably not play them but only a single digit percentage who like them. DayZ, which basically is a simulator of sorts, is one of the most popular games on steam. Or at least previously was. Arma is also very popular and it's based on Operation Flashpoint which was also quite a simulator. Are you kidding me ? Mario is easy ! also wen you died you didn't start the game all over, except if you lost all lives. However in Mario there was a secret area with pipes where you could warp to selected levels. I meant more like the arcade machine style. Like Metal Slug, where you had to put in money to get lives. So people actually had a reason to be good in it. Nothing prevented a dev from using lots of graphics, sounds, resources, etc. Under a killing moon came on 4 CDs packed Monkey Island was multi CD, some other games were multi CD. I was actually referring to games on floppy disks, not cd's. Like the late 80's and early 90's. Good point, so I guess there is the "psychological" factor. Making the player feel powerful, successful, etc. I am 98% convinced this is also because of kids. They are often so spoiled and get stuff without effort, that they want their games to be the same. Which is the creepiest game you've ever played? I don't really play that many creepy games. The last one I actually was scared of playing was Doom3 back in the day. Nothing else really comes to mind. (yours is mainly about difficulty, but I like how you put it ) Well yes, for me it's the difficulty and challenge. I don't think it's valid to say old games had better "gameplay" as in retrospect they probably didn't have. There were very few rules, few possibilities and you just had to do the same thing all the time. And comparing "graphics" is also not very objectively. But they don't really make the game. And I also think that maybe PC gaming could have a revival. We start to finally get games that previously where often console exclusives. So we get Watch Dogs, Wolfeinsten (want to play it for nostalgia sake. It also has healthpacks, so it has that going for it), Tom Clancy’s The Division. While they might not be good games, they at least come to PC. And as far as I know they won't be bad ports, but real PC games. That means better graphics, more features and so on.
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Darkstar2
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Reply #20 Posted on: May 22, 2014, 03:39:54 am |
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Joined: Jan 2014
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That just shows how today people have anger issues and lack patience. It's in no way a good thing and shouldn't be bragged about.
lol. Yeah I know, but do a survey out of a very large sample, if people would appreciate after hours of gameplay to have to start all over again, no savegame, nowaypoint nothing....... I would be curious to the results of the poll. As far as anger and impatience with games I will not bullshit and lie, I had such issues in the past nothing like the angry German kid on youtube lol but I would get stuck for hours sometimes and it would be so frustrating, but one thing I would not appreciate is having to start all over, there again maybe I say that but might feel otherwise depending on the game and context. Your point seemed to be that regenerative healing is arcade, but picking up healthpacks is simulator. I said that none of those are simulators.
Words in my mouth I never said that. Arcade is anything but realism. Regenerate health, picking health packs, picking spawning ammo packs all over the place, requiring being shot repeatedly to be dead even head shots lol. I can distinguish between the 2. I am 98% convinced this is also because of kids. They are often so spoiled and get stuff without effort, that they want their games to be the same.
Interesting point you bring there. Though from experience I know some would feel much different and would be very critical of such easy games requiring no effort. But yeah, I guess you bring very solid arguments. BTW, did you watch that youtube link I posted ? lol. Assuming that was even real, I can imagine this kid later in his teens playing online and cussing out other players. You see lot of that on youtube. I don't think it's valid to say old games had better "gameplay" as in retrospect they probably didn't have. There were very few rules, few possibilities and you just had to do the same thing all the time. And comparing "graphics" is also not very objectively. But they don't really make the game.
True, though I should have specified, I did not mean ALL old games were better ,but still think some had better / longer gameplay. Lot of games now are too damn short. When was the last time you finished a recent game in 50 hours time ? And I also think that maybe PC gaming could have a revival. We start to finally get games that previously where often console exclusives. So we get Watch Dogs, Wolfeinsten (want to play it for nostalgia sake. It also has healthpacks, so it has that going for it), Tom Clancy’s The Division. While they might not be good games, they at least come to PC. And as far as I know they won't be bad ports, but real PC games. That means better graphics, more features and so on.
True, but to me I don't judge a game entirely on graphics. SURE I love graphics and like to see my DX11 monster system and gfx crunch the graphics, but what good is a game if it doesn't have a nice story, gameplay, and is too bloody short Not everyone wants multiplayer. I think devs are focusing more on MP aspect than SP. That's just my opinion based on what I noticed in games, they are too damn short !
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Goombert
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Reply #21 Posted on: May 22, 2014, 04:17:02 am |
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Location: Cappuccino, CA Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 2993
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Ahhh SC 2000/3000/4, when games weren't bloated DRM shitware like SimCity 2013 and had depth, a kickass soundtrack, and didn't cater to the lowest denominator. Just about everything EA gets its hands on these days it destroys. Below is a screenshot of a really kick ass modern PC game. In case you don't know what it is, it's Emergency 2013, and guess what, it's not bloated with DRM, it may be one of the last remaining PC strategy franchises not fucked up its own ass. Here's another one called 0A.D. that is open source. And you know what, here is a classic PC First Person Shooter which has real potential if it would return to its original roots and stop trying to rip off/compete with COD.
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« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 04:21:23 am by Robert B Colton »
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I think it was Leonardo da Vinci who once said something along the lines of "If you build the robots, they will make games." or something to that effect.
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Benxamix2
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Reply #22 Posted on: May 22, 2014, 10:46:25 am |
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Location: Chile Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 69
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Just about everything EA gets its hands on these days it destroys. I have to agree with this. There's this one -modern- franchise from which I really enjoyed the first title, but then two sequels came and destroyed most of its essence. Oh, CRYSIS. The first game wasn't all about fighting and destroying everything. I actually finished the game playing in that cloak mode and using strategy to avoid being detected as much as possible. Of course there were parts that did focus on killing, but they were fun and not present all the time, so they didn't get repetitive. The sequels... Exactly the opposite :/ Which is the creepiest game you've ever played? I don't really play that many creepy games. The last one I actually was scared of playing was Doom3 back in the day. Nothing else really comes to mind.
DOOM 3 was just great. So many tense moments where darkness was everywhere and you couldn't see where were you shooting at all. But haven't you tried, like, Amnesia, Penumbra, Resident Evil (3 and downwards), Silent Hill, Obscure? Not of your interest? And I also think that maybe PC gaming could have a revival. We start to finally get games that previously where often console exclusives. I never thought different from that. Or even more critical, I didn't ever think that PC could be dying. Steam gets good sales as it serves to show you how many people are currently still going for the PC games. There's also pages like this to demostrate that. Anyway, I still play SimCity 2000 from time to time in my DOSBox. You can not convince me this game was not phenomenal for its time, and is not still the same today.
I played that on SNES when I was child! It's not my type of game but at the moment I had fun already by looking at its beautiful isometric pixelart graphics. And the music was, as expected from Maxis, pretty good too! Another example of great Maxis music here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujAUJN-VR8M
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« Last Edit: May 22, 2014, 06:36:58 pm by Benxamix2 »
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Benxamix2
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Reply #23 Posted on: May 27, 2014, 03:58:01 pm |
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Location: Chile Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 69
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As obsessed as I am with keeping track on everything I do that can be considered productive at some point, I found this site called The Backloggery. It's good-looking and very handy, I like it ;P Since the past week was school-free, I took my time and, while working on my last SFM (Source Filmmaker, an animating tool) video, I finished Soul Reaver. Gosh! It was a hard, but inspiring game! Hard in the puzzle meaning; sometimes the solution wasn't clear at all and there are, pretty much, no hints anywhere to aid you in your quest. And yet I have to beat its sequel (SR2) and a prequel-esque game (Blood Omen 2), to play the game I wanted to, in first place... Legacy of Kain: Defiance. I remember having that one in a DVD ages ago before I lost it... I wonder if I'll ever get another retail copy of it :/ The storyline is beautiful on the Legacy of Kain series, you know... S_S
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